Dragons Style (or lack of it)

[Changaman]

I'd like to discuss the style of play the Dragons are employing at the moment.

There has been a lot of talk in these forums recently about Rangi Chase. I was unsure of his suitability as I remember him being part of the the Dragons, during a less than perfect or successful period. Someone posted a link to a YouTube video "Tribute to Rangi Chase".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJykJ1jD9x4

The one thing that stuck out on this compilation was Chase's style of running at the defence then turning sideways, thus pulling his defender and drawing another as well. In this move he committed 2 players, then he would either step around them or pass to, what was now, an overlap.

Now there is nothing new about this technique, but it is something lacking at the Dragons at the moment. Our dummy half just pass the ball most of the time, the first receiver also just passes the ball. The opposition defence just slide out and it pretty easy to stop the attacking move.

Mark Gasnier used to take on the defence, as he got older it got harder, but the point still stands. Soward, Stanley, Vidot, all have this problem and most of the forwards do to, except Merrin who does draw and pass.

So is it a generational thing, a coaching problem. It particularly seems to be worse when the team is under pressure, and they revert to this default, so maybe it isn't coached.

But it infuriates me to watch the Dragons just pass the ball out the line and hope the next player can do something with the ball.

The other thing is the dummy half. Cameron Smith would be regarded as one of the better dummy halves around. He quite runs from dummy half the passes. When he runs he takes the 2 defenders at dummy half out of the play. You would think other number 9s would see this and try to emulate this sort of play. But regrettably. no.

Why?

 

[Mr Red]

in the space of one off season with a good coach the roosters have gone from a rabble to a well drilled team..

they have halves taking on the line, some good attacking plays with plenty of ball running options which then allows the halves to have passing options .... do they let the first runner go through as a decoy and hit the second man, or do they pass short to the first runner - always keeps the defence in two minds.
Melbourne do the same...

Dragons always one out, no second runner, no options for the halves.. poor game plan.

 

[OziDragon]

The forwards ie. Stockwell, Prior, Creagh and others dont run onto the ball during plays. They just seem to stand still next to the player, receive the ball and are therefore flat footed making it easier for defence.

Same goes for the backs. During a set play in the opposition 30, there just seems to be no depth in the play. The centres and wingers should be at least be 5 to 10m from the play the ball to run onto the ball at fast speed. But it all comes down to the poor options from the halves.

 

[Changa]

Saints under pressure fall back into 'Bennett' style sweeping plays. They had successfully moved away from this in the past few weeks, but in the big occasion and down a few tries; bad old habits creep back in. The amount of times we tries this to no avail was embarrassing. The play does not work under our current structure and as much as I enjoyed watching Sowie run around for us over the years, a shake-up in the halves is exactly what we need next year. Nightingales not the man to have on the end of it either.
Spot on with the offload issue too Changaman. Mateo is a lazy defender at times but could inject a lot of life into our attack if we got him. Players like Prior should also be moved on, not because he is that bad, but because he's now been developed entirely under our 'conservative' structures and needs a sea-change.

 

[Minh]

We are short 3-4 creative strike players that is all, the current team just doesn't have it in them to beat the top 4-5 teams. Nobody can coach this current team to a top 4 spot IMO. Top 8 is possible.

 

[Minh]

With Style, Beale, King and Weyman all fit we stand a little chance of upsetting these teams.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Rangi can add some unpredictability to the attack. Currently it is very predictable.

How long till the Dragons get him on the park? Will it be this season.

 

[jenninga]

The forwards ie. Stockwell, Prior, Creagh and others dont run onto the ball during plays. They just seem to stand still next to the player, receive the ball and are therefore flat footed making it easier for defence.

Same goes for the backs. During a set play in the opposition 30, there just seems to be no depth in the play. The centres and wingers should be at least be 5 to 10m from the play the ball to run onto the ball at fast speed. But it all comes down to the poor options from the halves.

Yesterday the Roosters offloads killed us.Back in the days where we could score at will(under Browny) we had support players many times and played risky but effective footy.Merrin is the only player where we get 2nd phase plays,Prior tried yesterday but he makes me nervous when he tries to.
We should be trying this more often as we don't have the players to play an expansive game.
More back up and 2nd phase play.

 

[Minh]

Agree second phase footy destroyed us yesterday. This seems to be the new attacking weapon of choice if done correctly is hard to defend against.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Rangi can add some unpredictability to the attack. Currently it is very predictable.

How long till the Dragons get him on the park? Will it be this season.[/QUOTE
Slippery, I believe Rangi is good to go but the stumbling block is the amount of money his pommy team want as compensation. I believe our club has baulked at the asking amount, so knowing our luck with negotiations it could drag on.

 

[OziDragon]

Yesterday the Roosters offloads killed us.Back in the days where we could score at will(under Browny) we had support players many times and played risky but effective footy.Merrin is the only player where we get 2nd phase plays,Prior tried yesterday but he makes me nervous when he tries to.
We should be trying this more often as we don't have the players to play an expansive game.
More back up and 2nd phase play.

I agree. More offloading will cause the defenders to tire out quicker. I also want the forwards to start taking on the line. Instead of running straight and hard at the line, start to throw the ball around, popping quick small passes to other forwards and backs. Attract defenders to create holes in the defensive line.

The roosters managed that against us and it worked out well for them.

 

[Godz Illa]

It's been touched on elsewhere, and by Steve Price himself - but it all comes from defence. We didn't dominate the ruck, we were going backwards and chasing their offloads in defence all day, expending energy. Flowing on from that our own rucks were slow, we had no-one pushing up in support in attack, no roll-on and the halves went sideways. The style we established in those 3 wins - playing direct up the middle, focused on offloads and a more unstructured backline - is predicated on winning, or at least competing in, the battle in defence. The Roosters have a smart hooker and some very skilful forwards who kept us in trouble all day

 

[DUB888]

The Dragons Style is to appoint an assistant coach to the Head Coach position thus giving Peter Doust another "Yes Man"

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I'd like to discuss the style of play the Dragons are employing at the moment.

There has been a lot of talk in these forums recently about Rangi Chase. I was unsure of his suitability as I remember him being part of the the Dragons, during a less than perfect or successful period. Someone posted a link to a YouTube video "Tribute to Rangi Chase".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJykJ1jD9x4

The one thing that stuck out on this compilation was Chase's style of running at the defence then turning sideways, thus pulling his defender and drawing another as well. In this move he committed 2 players, then he would either step around them or pass to, what was now, an overlap.

Now there is nothing new about this technique, but it is something lacking at the Dragons at the moment. Our dummy half just pass the ball most of the time, the first receiver also just passes the ball. The opposition defence just slide out and it pretty easy to stop the attacking move.

Mark Gasnier used to take on the defence, as he got older it got harder, but the point still stands. Soward, Stanley, Vidot, all have this problem and most of the forwards do to, except Merrin who does draw and pass.

So is it a generational thing, a coaching problem. It particularly seems to be worse when the team is under pressure, and they revert to this default, so maybe it isn't coached.

But it infuriates me to watch the Dragons just pass the ball out the line and hope the next player can do something with the ball.

The other thing is the dummy half. Cameron Smith would be regarded as one of the better dummy halves around. He quite runs from dummy half the passes. When he runs he takes the 2 defenders at dummy half out of the play. You would think other number 9s would see this and try to emulate this sort of play. But regrettably. no.

Why?

Hi mate,

Welcome to 12 months ago.

We play the style that the main play makers allow us to.

Simple.

 

[Drain the Dragon]

We are short 3-4 creative strike players that is all, the current team just doesn't have it in them to beat the top 4-5 teams. Nobody can coach this current team to a top 4 spot IMO. Top 8 is possible.

This ^^

 

[RedPenno]

hi guys, 1st time poster, long time reader & dragons fan my whole life.
from watching the game i think sowie needs to go to penrith now because thats where his mind appeared to be. been a soward fan but time for a change i think. bring on rangi

 

[nrlnrl]

I agree. More offloading will cause the defenders to tire out quicker. I also want the forwards to start taking on the line. Instead of running straight and hard at the line, start to throw the ball around, popping quick small passes to other forwards and backs. Attract defenders to create holes in the defensive line.

The roosters managed that against us and it worked out well for them.

Yep and stop throwing reverses bringing forwards back to the middle of the defence where they are easy targets. The Dragons only linebreak yesterday came from an offload by Nightingale ( a winger playing at fullback ). Overall the Dragons seemed flat yesterday, even allowing for how well the Roosters played. The enthusiasm of recent matches was sadly lacking - maybe the week's break caused this ?

 

[redbreed]

The roosters defence was the key yesterday. The whole side rushes up 5 metres effectively making it like the old days of the 5 metre rule. Then when the likes of Soward and fien become decisive the whole team advances again. With there attacking players like sbw, Jennings, Maloney and pierce the can hurt a team from anywhere on the park. The major concern I have with prices coaching is that we never seem to go in with a specific plan against teams and play at their weakness, he seems to only care about getting the attack right but with some teams, opportunities come from attacking teams weakness.

 

[Changaman]

It's been touched on elsewhere, and by Steve Price himself - but it all comes from defence. We didn't dominate the ruck, we were going backwards and chasing their offloads in defence all day, expending energy. Flowing on from that our own rucks were slow, we had no-one pushing up in support in attack, no roll-on and the halves went sideways. The style we established in those 3 wins - playing direct up the middle, focused on offloads and a more unstructured backline - is predicated on winning, or at least competing in, the battle in defence. The Roosters have a smart hooker and some very skilful forwards who kept us in trouble all day

You're absolutely right. The ruck and winning it is vital, both in attack and defence. Getting slow ball shuts down the attack and stopping it in defence does the same. The problem has been the Melbournes and Bunnies are good at slowing down others attack with out being penalised, the Dragons are either not good enough or are scrutinized more than these teams.

 

[TheRev]

o No doubt we were always going to lose when we cant keep up with their line speed, understood, but that doesnt mean we cant be smarter in attack, it feels like they need a Plan B and C to go to if this flat pass the ball and pray approach isnt working.

o To Minh and co, if the coach truly believes we are 3-4 strike short, why would they persist with the same team? Ive no doubt that id Cummins or Quinlan or Runciman played we would get beaten by 50, but id still rather that when watch Vidot go around, Flo out of position and Fien at 7 etc..

o Whats interesting is the prospect of Rangi/Dugen, because they could be selected 'now' and give us a chance to salvage the season if Price is up to it.

o Be interesting to watch Soward next few weeks, to be fair he did give up but we were down by like 20 at the time and playing rubbish, but tbh if he doesnt turn around in the next 3-4 weeks, he may need to be dropped early, which will be difficult, unless Rangi arrives or Style is fit (was it late season for him?), but Drinkwater may be an option.