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Easts Tigers Enter Expansion Race

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,116
BS...

It's extremely difficult to consume a product if the manufacturer refuses to sell it to you!

Historic crowd numbers in Perth and Adelaide prove that there's demand. Make the product available to them, promote it well, and they'll buy it. Given time NRL would grow just like the AFL has in NSW and Queensland.

Teams in Perth & Adelaide have failed. Current interest is negligible looking at ratings. Having team hasn't helped Melbourne with grassroots & regular season interest. Just the facts
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,116
Yep, which is why it's crazy that the NRL doesn't have any local presence in two of them, and has no concrete plans to add them.

Finding the funding to support teams in Perth and Adelaide, and getting them into the competition as soon as it's feasible should be one of the NRL's main priorities. Instead they're 'rusted-on AFL states' that aren't worth 'wasting millions' on. It's insane.

Brisbane and Melbourne are underserviced as well. Though I doubt Melbourne will be able to support another team for a while yet.

There's money to be made in every market, even the ones that don't have a large enough population to support a club.

In fact one of RL's biggest strategic mistakes in the past has been not mandating that it's FTA broadcasters must play the game in full at a reasonable time in all markets. The loss of exposure really killed the sport outside of the heartlands, and has made it that much harder for the NRL when trying to enter/re-enter markets.

NRL know the metrics & which option brings in most. Plan for Brisbane team says it all
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,808
Gf does well in Melbourne but their ratings for regular games are in toilet as well & they have a team!! Gf is a TV event

Storm regularly rate high on fox and we don't know how many of them are from Melbourne. We don't know the Kayo ratings either. They are now 2nd or 3rd in memberships as well. Average crowds have been in the top half for a number of years.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,116
Storm regularly rate high on fox and we don't know how many of them are from Melbourne. We don't know the Kayo ratings either. They are now 2nd or 3rd in memberships as well. Average crowds have been in the top half for a number of years.

Little in roads in Melbourne TV. Never had a losing season really like swans so who knows how solid those numbers are
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,624
In reality

Top 10 Population Centres:
1. Sydney - NRL - strong afl presence
2. Melbourne - AFL - weak nrl presence
3. Brisbane - NRL - strong afl presence
4. Perth - AFL - zero nrl
5. Adelaide - AFL - zero nrl
6. Gold Coast - NRL - equal afl presence
7. Canberra - NRL - weak afl presence
8. Newcastle - NRL - zero afl
9. Central Coast - NRL - zero afl
10. Wollongong - NRL - zero afl
11. Sunshine Coast - weak NRL - zero afl
12. Hobart - AFL - zero nrl
13. Townsville - NRL - zero afl
14. Geelong - AFL - zero nrl
15. Cairns - weak nrl - zero afl

in the 5 big cities where metro ratings count nrl has 2+1 and afl has 3+2
Brisbane and Sydney certainly don't have a strong AFL presence. The TV ratings show this. Sure, people will tune in for the GF in bigger numbers but the Swans, Lions and Giants ratings are still pretty low. They have a niche market of ex-Pats and some locals.

The Gold Coast is nowhere near even in terms of representation... are you kidding? Sure there is the suns and titans, but below that, Rugby League destroys AFL on the Gold Coast and it's not even close.

Fact is mate as the country's population grows, that top 10 / 15 isn't changing much and most of them are NRL dominated cities. Maybe Gold Coast, Newcastle, Central Coast, Wollongong, Sunshine Coast, Townsville are considered regional now but give it 20, 30, 50 years and they will be major cities.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,624
Not that I'm claiming to be an expert, but you simply don't understand how commercial broadcasting licenses and advertising works.

I'm oversimplifying it a lot (otherwise I'd have to write a book just to try and explain it all, and I'm definitely not the person to write that book), but free to air broadcasters are licensed by the government to broadcast in designated markets across the country, and there are only so many licenses for each market.

Obviously there are metro markets and regional markets, and the metro markets are pretty self explanatory (in yellow), but the regional markets represent large disparate populations, not just singular regions/cities.

525px-Australia_television_market_regions.svg.png


This creates markets within the broadcasting industry that aren't really natural outside of it. For example, as far as broadcasters and their advertisers are concerned the Sunshine Coast and CQ already have NRL content representing "their" market, the Cowboys.

This also means that outside of the potential of underserved markets where it might be worthwhile to add another NRL product for ratings reasons (which is debatable depending on the market and is a separate discussion), that every 'RL heartland' broadcasting market has at least one NRL team representing it (most more than one), except for Griffith and Central and East which aren't big enough to support teams, and the ratings and advertising gains from having their own teams wouldn't be there to make the venture worthwhile to broadcasters and major advertisers anyway.
In other words, aside from potentially underserved markets, the NRL's heartlands are 'shored up' from the broadcaster and major advertisers point of view.

This post is already a lot longer than I'd hoped so I'm going to be somewhat simplistic again; but to blue chip advertisers the most valuable timeslots to advertise on are primetime on the main channels. Obviously that's because, on average, that is when the most people are watching at any one time.
So, the programs that are most valuable to broadcasters to put into those timeslots are the ones that can attract the highest amount of viewers across as many markets, particularly the metro markets for obvious reasons, as possible, because that maximises ratings across as much of the population as possible, and makes their advertising space during those timeslots as valuable as possible to as many advertisers as possible.

In the case of sports products that means that the products that have teams in as many of those markets that can sustain one as possible are going to have a competitive advantage over the others that don't, as even if it's not the highest rating sports product in all of the markets that it's in it's still way more valuable to broadcasters and advertisers than a product that rates really well in half the markets but not at all in the other half.

The problem with your response is that it didn't really address what I was saying. I'm not talking about how ratings are measured right now. I'm talking about actual footprint in the most populated parts of the country and the NRL clearly dominates which is why the AFL are spending a fortune to carve out a small niche.

Let's have a look at the list again, only focusing on the regionals and with a view to the future... say 30 or even 50 years down the track... these markets will not be regional centres (nor do any of them currently have disparate populations), they will be major cities in the future and as long as the NRL keeps them as strong holds, they will continue to dominate the AFL geographically. Now we just need administrators that can turn that into $$$.

6. Gold Coast - NRL
7. Canberra - NRL
8. Newcastle - NRL
9. Central Coast - NRL
10. Wollongong - NRL
11. Sunshine Coast - NRL
12. Hobart - AFL
13. Townsville - NRL
14. Geelong - AFL
15. Cairns - NRL
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,602
Little in roads in Melbourne TV. Never had a losing season really like swans so who knows how solid those numbers are
How many people watch FTA now compared to Kayo & Fox sports? If you’re in to sport you probably have one or the other. When it comes to watching Storm games in Melbourne why would you watch on GEM? (assuming it’s an FTA game). No pre-game and no post-game coverage, it literally cuts straight to a movie after the full time siren.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
The problem with your response is that it didn't really address what I was saying.
It directly addresses your point...

You and PR were talking about sponsorship and advertising values as it pertains to national market share and market penetration. Specifically he was talking about blue chip sponsors choosing the AFL over the NRL because of their national footprint.

Outside of specific cases (like where a benefactor sponsors a club), a sponsor is just an advertiser who is paying to advertise through the club it's self instead of on the program, and they get maximum value out of their sponsorship of a sports team in basically the same way advertisers do whom advertise on the product.

There's a reason why the AFL has way more blue chip sponsors, whom pay more for the privilege BTW, than the NRL. Even within the NRL the teams whom feature on FTA regularly (particularly Friday night), i.e. have higher exposure in front of the largest audiences, get better sponsorship money on average than the clubs whom rarely feature on FTA.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
NRL know the metrics & which option brings in most. Plan for Brisbane team says it all
The NRL, and RL in general, have a history of bad administration and bad decision making. With the possible exception of Soccer, RL is easily the worst run code historically in Australia.

So you'll have to forgive me if I have no faith in the NRL's decision making skills.

Also, the only metric you'll even entertain is FTA ratings, so when you say 'the metrics' it doesn't mean much.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,116
How many people watch FTA now compared to Kayo & Fox sports? If you’re in to sport you probably have one or the other. When it comes to watching Storm games in Melbourne why would you watch on GEM? (assuming it’s an FTA game). No pre-game and no post-game coverage, it literally cuts straight to a movie after the full time siren.

FTA is free
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,116
The NRL, and RL in general, have a history of bad administration and bad decision making. With the possible exception of Soccer, RL is easily the worst run code historically in Australia.

So you'll have to forgive me if I have no faith in the NRL's decision making skills.

Also, the only metric you'll even entertain is FTA ratings, so when you say 'the metrics' it doesn't mean much.

Just the biggest source of revenue for all sports in 2021.

Ppl like Vlandys have a lot of experience & success in sports administration.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Just the biggest source of revenue for all sports in 2021.
It's still only a singular data point, and a singular data point is never enough to give you a good picture of a subject.
Ppl like Vlandys have a lot of experience & success in sports administration.
There're significant differences between the racing industry and pro-football, and his record as ARLC chairman has been spotty at best so far.

In regards to expansion specifically; the fact that he is trying to force through expansion for 2023 so late is impatient and risky, and if he's willing to cut corners to get the result quickly in that regard then he is undoubtedly willing to cut corners in others regards as well.
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,436
Storm regularly rate high on fox and we don't know how many of them are from Melbourne. We don't know the Kayo ratings either. They are now 2nd or 3rd in memberships as well. Average crowds have been in the top half for a number of years.
Storm rate well because they have been at the top for so long. Brisbane aside, the ratings roughly correlates with the ladder but the differences between top rating and low rating clubs is minimal.
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,436

This shows why the NRL has work to do. The AFL GF rated more than 20% higher. Does a second club in Brisbane help this? Probably not much. New club in Perth? Probably yes.
But a second club an Brisbane should help more with other metrics like crowds and participation, where the AFL is even further in front.
My point is that the NRL has to change something. I would say the AFL is in front 55/45. If nothing changes, In ten years it will be 60/40 and eventually the AFL will be twice as big as RL. If you don’t think the AFL is in front and growing much faster than RL in this country you are dreaming.
The first step is Brisbane 2. The second is a proper 17/18 team women’s comp (girls sport is where all the funding is to upgrade facilities), then a team in Perth. If can all be done within five years and will ultimately pay for itself.
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,436
AFL despite being a far more boring, uninteresting spectacle (IMO) just presents itself so much better than NRL In every single way....
Yes, but is this part of the charm of RL? The AFL on TV is slick but somewhat soulless. There is more personality in the NRL, even if the coverage is a little loose, it is more entertaining.
The biggest difference in the coverage is the mainly empty RL stadiums compared to the mainly full AFL stadiums. This year RL looked terrible playing at run down third rate stadiums in the finals! Blame COVID if you like but this cannot continue.
Simple solution to empty stadiums is to stop playing regular season games at ANZ once SFS is ready, and don’t build any more stadiums with large capacities that won’t be filled. Stadiums should be at least 2/3s full 2/3s of the time.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,116

This shows why the NRL has work to do. The AFL GF rated more than 20% higher. Does a second club in Brisbane help this? Probably not much. New club in Perth? Probably yes.
But a second club an Brisbane should help more with other metrics like crowds and participation, where the AFL is even further in front.
My point is that the NRL has to change something. I would say the AFL is in front 55/45. If nothing changes, In ten years it will be 60/40 and eventually the AFL will be twice as big as RL. If you don’t think the AFL is in front and growing much faster than RL in this country you are dreaming.
The first step is Brisbane 2. The second is a proper 17/18 team women’s comp (girls sport is where all the funding is to upgrade facilities), then a team in Perth. If can all be done within five years and will ultimately pay for itself.

Two teams representing two different big markets would maximize viewership. So yes, extra Brisbane helps with that.
Conferences actually the best method with teams eventually inPerth & Adelaide.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,624
It directly addresses your point...

You and PR were talking about sponsorship and advertising values as it pertains to national market share and market penetration. Specifically he was talking about blue chip sponsors choosing the AFL over the NRL because of their national footprint.

Outside of specific cases (like where a benefactor sponsors a club), a sponsor is just an advertiser who is paying to advertise through the club it's self instead of on the program, and they get maximum value out of their sponsorship of a sports team in basically the same way advertisers do whom advertise on the product.

There's a reason why the AFL has way more blue chip sponsors, whom pay more for the privilege BTW, than the NRL. Even within the NRL the teams whom feature on FTA regularly (particularly Friday night), i.e. have higher exposure in front of the largest audiences, get better sponsorship money on average than the clubs whom rarely feature on FTA.
Here's the thing though... some NRL clubs do manage to get blue chip sponsors. So they are willing to get on board, it's just that some clubs are not organised / well run enough to get them. So that is not a dots on a map footprint thing. The NRL has a very good geographical reach.

My other point was that the most populous areas in the country are majority NRL territory and as the country's population grows and as time goes on, some of these will be major cities and no longer considered regional towns.
 

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