Eastwood a bulldog

[Eels Dude]

Eels Dude - thanks for the compliment. BTW I have seen many more dumber posts on this forum over the years.

Mate, if you're going to suggest releasing Hindmarsh and others in order to get better forwards, you should at least name a few who are on the market. Hindmarsh is the best player the club has had in 20 years and is still the club's best current player. If you want to cut him (of all players) for a better player, then I'd like to know who you'd replace him with?

 

[oldmancraigy]

I don't have a problem with that rule. Every club front loads or back loads contracts to suit their salary cap needs. That way if the clubs want to re-sign a player but are struggling salary cap wise for the following season they can offer them a 600k 3 year deal, but pay 100k, then 200k, then 300k. The Dogs in this case have a gone a step further and due to Williams and Mason being released pre and mid season they changed the contract structure for the others so their contracts were frontloaded their entire salary last year. It's a smart move really, and given they had to player walkouts they had no time to replace last season, a fair outcome.

So let's push the crummy logic of the system:

Penrith decide that they're crap enough as it is, and need some new blood. So they dont' sign anyone good for next year, and have the minimum cap expenditure of $3.15 million (leaving them 1.05 million spare). They then front load the best 3 players from that squad for 3 year deals at a total of $1mill per player. 330k for each deal gets paid next up this season, meaning their final season is off the books.
So they've got these 3 talented guys, they suck again the following year because they only spend $3.15mill - and they recruit wisely by front paying 3 other guys the same way (but to 2 year deals).
Suddenly some of their ordinary players come off the cap - they sign their best youngsters from the U21s, and with their 5 established "good" players, they have a core of say 20 - some journeymen, some useful players.
Because they've paid $1.5mill up front, their bill for the big 3rd year (let's call it the contending year) is only around $1.8mill - meaning they've got a good $2.4 mill to buy whomever they damn well please.
You could buy the best 4 players in the league at 600k each - or 6 SoO players at 400k.

Suddenly you've got an outfit on the park worth $5.5million when the cap is $4.2 million AND you're within the silly legislation.

It's not 'fair enough' because of the walkouts last season - that's poor personnel management on the part of the Dogs. They shouldn't be rewarded for it - it's their issue. And they certainly shouldn't be gifted a $4.8million dollar cap for this season when every other club is on $4.2.

The point of the cap is a level playing field. You don't get a bonus for junior development, you get a bonus for peeing off your players so that they go overseas/ elsewhere?
There's a bug in the system if you ask me.

 

[Ike E Bear]

The point of the cap is a level playing field. You don't get a bonus for junior development, you get a bonus for peeing off your players so that they go overseas/ elsewhere?
There's a bug in the system if you ask me.

I still don't have a big problem with the system, as to do what you describe could jeopardise the very existence of a club. To purposefully tank in such a way would drive away fans and sponsors and constrict the team's ability to raise future revenue.

The Bears had one bad season after shelling out fistfuls of cash on facilities and were GONE the next season.

I don't think what happened at the Dogs would ever be purposefully replicated by another club, especially in the current financial climate.

Your final point as quoted, however, is excellent. There SHOULD be rewards for junior development ... and I'm not just saying that because our club is good at it (others are too). It's just recognition of investment that benefits the entire game.

 

[yy_cheng]

Mate, if you're going to suggest releasing Hindmarsh and others in order to get better forwards, you should at least name a few who are on the market. Hindmarsh is the best player the club has had in 20 years and is still the club's best current player. If you want to cut him (of all players) for a better player, then I'd like to know who you'd replace him with?

I would consider replacing him for Ben Creagh but I would rather complement him with Ben Creigh instead.

There are others on the chopping block way before Hindy though.

 

[Delboy]

All this tells me is that the personnel responsible for doing our numbers over the past couple of years, weren't that good at:-
a) recognising real worth
2) structuring contracts
3)organising a true succession plan for player recruitment

Who was coach ..see NRL tactics....

 

[Eels Dude]

Suddenly you've got an outfit on the park worth $5.5million when the cap is $4.2 million AND you're within the silly legislation.

It's not 'fair enough' because of the walkouts last season - that's poor personnel management on the part of the Dogs. They shouldn't be rewarded for it - it's their issue. And they certainly shouldn't be gifted a $4.8million dollar cap for this season when every other club is on $4.2.

The point of the cap is a level playing field. You don't get a bonus for junior development, you get a bonus for peeing off your players so that they go overseas/ elsewhere?
There's a bug in the system if you ask me.

Realistically it's not going to end up that way. No club would resort to those measure at it's rather pointless. It's not like anyone is taking advantage of it as all clubs are in the same position. There are bugs in the system but not in this example. The Bulldogs were punished for it, like Ike said they ended up with a wooden spoon, and still are struggling to find sponsorship for this season. You don't know what the Eels system is like this year for the record either, we could be operating on 4.5 this year after 3.8 last year or something. That may explain why we lost players but didn't sign any, due to backloaded contracts.

 

[oldmancraigy]

There SHOULD be rewards for junior development ... and I'm not just saying that because our club is good at it (others are too). It's just recognition of investment that benefits the entire game.

Maybe that's my main issue.

The NRL needs to work out a list of cap exemptions so that the players can earn the 'right' money, and the clubs are rewarded for promoting the future of the game.

 

[Delboy]

It isn't about cap exemptions, then you would be able to spend even more than you could afford, remember the grant doesn't even cover the salary cap.

Perhaps it would be better to penalise the clubs that sign more than a certain number of "juniors" from other clubs, no idea how it would work, or better still stop Cleal from parking at Parramatta junior rep games. Also re-employ Tony Zappia to stem the flow to the hobbits

 

[lucablight]

The dogs have lost alot of good players recently. I don't see why people are surprised by their spending spree.

 

[hindy111]

yeah they got the spoon last year-they lost top players not good ones.And they didnt buy as big a nmaes as they lost.I mean eastwood-hannant-stagg are fringe first graders to be fair.Yeah they may become great ?
As for hindy : P Id let him play aslong as he wants.Id rather win a comp with parrra juniors.I remember the year when we bought ridell-tahu-morrison and few others and we where a great team-I sort of felt hollow the fact we bought 4 top mark players in a hit......Wast right.
Cayless is over paid but 1st grade player.Maybe not a barnstorming player but does his job well....
Its guys like josh-burt-finch that we should be looking at IMO

 

[hindy111]

oh by the way-we lost to one of premiership favourites by one try-played sh*t and had no ball-In there backyard.Sonny fai farewell
Not need to panic yet fellas

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Lowrie 180k
Cayless 440k
Finch 300k

sums it perfectly:lol:

 

[ROGUE]

it might be difficult getting them to rack off prior to the conclusion of their contracts, oh but i wish we could

 

[carson]

I have no problems with the loading of contracts, you can't punish other teams simply because they have better management than us. We have had just as many chances to work the system the same way for the last few years but have saddly dropped the ball.

As far as juniors go, I've always thought that if they aren't going to give salary cap concessions to the clubs that develop juniors, then they should at least consider a transfer fee system, outside the salary cap. If clubs like manly and the chooks had to pay a $50k - $100k for each junior they pinch it would even the playing field a little. Clubs would not only be reimbursed for the time and money they put in to their juniors, clubs like parramatta and penrith could even make some cash out of it to fund other football operations.

 

[yy_cheng]

I have no problems with the loading of contracts, you can't punish other teams simply because they have better management than us. We have had just as many chances to work the system the same way for the last few years but have saddly dropped the ball.

As far as juniors go, I've always thought that if they aren't going to give salary cap concessions to the clubs that develop juniors, then they should at least consider a transfer fee system, outside the salary cap. If clubs like manly and the chooks had to pay a $50k - $100k for each junior they pinch it would even the playing field a little. Clubs would not only be reimbursed for the time and money they put in to their juniors, clubs like parramatta and penrith could even make some cash out of it to fund other football operations.

Or the dreaded DRAFT system for the juniors whereby the producer gets 1st dibs

 

[hineyrulz]

Lowrie 180k
Cayless 440k
Finch 300k

Bingo!!!!!

 

[Eels Dude]

As far as juniors go, I've always thought that if they aren't going to give salary cap concessions to the clubs that develop juniors, then they should at least consider a transfer fee system, outside the salary cap. If clubs like manly and the chooks had to pay a $50k - $100k for each junior they pinch it would even the playing field a little. Clubs would not only be reimbursed for the time and money they put in to their juniors, clubs like parramatta and penrith could even make some cash out of it to fund other football operations.

That's a good point. The problem is it is really impossible to incorporate a transfer scheme if a player is off contract. If it were to be done, the NRL would need to change their whole signing deadline system and that would affect the whole recruitment system within the NRL.