Eels duo free to play after drugs ban

[Maroubra Eel]

This is my biggest worry.
I'm concerned that the greatest selected backup talent for the Eels (ie Wenty players)are being fed geranium type substances.
I have some geraniums at home, and they certainly don't look like the type of plant that would win a team a NSW Cup, let alone propel a player to an NRL Grand Final.
Do our Board know about this scandal? It's a disgrace. Please don't tell me that we have a board member who has share holdings in Flower Power?

Suity

:lol: you're on fire tonight!

 

[Suitman]

what does it do anyway? Im sure ive seen it several products I have drank or eaten over the years.

It makes you look pretty over the spring and summer, although you can flower at any time of year, depending on which climate you live in.
Geraniums - fair dinkum!! :lol:
Suity

 

[Eels Dude]

you would think the first thing any trainer did before handing a supplement to an athlete would be to check the ingredients for any nasties they are lucky to just be sacked and not sued

The thing is methylhexaneamine was perfectly legal until 2010 so trainers, players, and coaching staff would have been using Jack3d for years prior and would have every right to do so. The trainers probably weren't aware it had been placed on the banned list for 2010. But they should have known, hence why they were shown the door.

 

[Suitman]

:lol: you're on fire tonight!

No!!!! I'm serious.
If our players are going to be given substances from the plant world, I want them to be given hard arsed stuff like "Oil of Cactii", or "Supplement of Venus Fly Trap".
Not f**king "scent of geranium".

I'm seriously concerned that when Tom Humble makes his return, it'll be as a cheer leader.

Suity

 

[Eelementary]

No!!!! I'm serious.
If our players are going to be given substances from the plant world, I want them to be given hard arsed stuff like "Oil of Cactii", or "Supplement of Venus Fly Trap".
Not f**king "scent of geranium".

I'm seriously concerned that when Tom Humble makes his return, it'll be as a cheer leader.

Suity

Cheerleaders are tougher than dudes who eat flowers. Just sayin'....

 

[Parra R 4 Me]

Now that explains why Hindy was careful with his words on one of the footy shows (I think it was one of the ones on Fox) a few weeks ago when asked about Humble, he answered the questions carefully and thinking before answering, he answered with something like he was yeah, well he is still training with us, still very much part of the team just has a few things to sort out within the club.

 

[Gronk]

Ultimately an athlete needs to know what he puts in his body, if his livelihood derives from his sport.

IF true that Humble was led astray by coaching staff, then that sucks but he must still be punished the same as any other athlete.

Even more confusing for everyone when the products own website says..

Yes, Jack3d is legal in the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and all other English-speaking countries that we can find. We’ll update this post if that ever changes.

http://www.jack-3d.com/is-jack3d-legal

 

[Gronk]

The banned substance in Jack3D is methylhexaneamine.

Recently two SA Rugby players got off after a positive test to methylhexaneamine.

Here is where they got caught.

Here is where they got off.

 

[SDM]

I am truly shocked. Sack the junkie.

 

[Jake the snake]

I feel sorry for Humble in a way. He took soemthing that the club gave him and also I don't think anyone knows if this substance is illegal or not. So many changes.

 

[Parra]

They don't need to be. In order for a professional sportsman to play in a competition whether it be a national or an international tournament they would need to agree to certain terms and conditions and if they breach those they face punishment by the governing bodies. They would have to sign off on that. You cannot sue if you have no legal grounds to.

Not more 'sanctity of the contract' BS. It seems that the drug test standards and conditions set the bar way lower than a criminal court, yet the results are taken on face value.

If this level of punishment continues then the same standards of evidence testing should apply. Scrutinise every element from the clause, the testing, the skill of the testers, the honesty of the staff - same as is done for a criminal case. Look at the scrutiny the police and prosecutors come under in a case. These ASADA/WADA people carry out tests that have much more stringent ramifications for the athletes, yet go unscruntised.

Maybe it is something players associations should look at. There is always an outcry when a rape or assault is alleged. But none when drug use or gambling allegations are made. Double standards.

 

[Springs]

Why the hell do they need to take supplements anyway? You would think being a pro football player with training fulltime would be enough? Why risk being banned for taking something that isn't really going to add anything to your game?

The idiots deserve to be banned (but not for long).

 

[Overweight Moron]

Not more 'sanctity of the contract' BS. It seems that the drug test standards and conditions set the bar way lower than a criminal court, yet the results are taken on face value.

If this level of punishment continues then the same standards of evidence testing should apply. Scrutinise every element from the clause, the testing, the skill of the testers, the honesty of the staff - same as is done for a criminal case. Look at the scrutiny the police and prosecutors come under in a case. These ASADA/WADA people carry out tests that have much more stringent ramifications for the athletes, yet go unscruntised.

Maybe it is something players associations should look at. There is always an outcry when a rape or assault is alleged. But none when drug use or gambling allegations are made. Double standards.

You seem to have a hard time understanding that you can't apply one set of standards to everything.

The results of a piss test are discrete. Either you have something in your system you shouldn't or you don't. Its black and white. Mitigating factors come afterwards which is why the player is entitled to a hearing to present those factors.

The law on the other hand is anything but. To compare the two and expect the same standard to be applied is farcical and idiotic. There are a million examples of rules, regulations, codes of conduct that exist in many industries (professional sports being one) independent of criminal law. They all apply to different situations and have different standards.

No doubt Parramatta would have a players code of conduct. Would you suggest then they should apply the same standards they do to that, which the courts do to law?

 

[Parra]

The results of a piss test are discrete.
Either you have something in your system you shouldn't or you don't. Its black and white.

No they are not discrete. There have been allegations of test fakes, tampering, poor procedures, tainted samples. It is far from black and white. Procedures and protocols are relied on - that is it.

For more serious matters we expect higher standards - hence court trials where all sorts of similar test methods are tested and scrutinised. Whether this involves question police procedures, machine calibration or blood/dna evidence.

But while the 'due process' is followed for serious allegations life goes on as normal. Not so for lesser issues - poor behaviour or this sort of 'drug' use. The punishments are punitive, applied instantly and without question.

These sorts of things can never be dealt with the same way - that is not what I am advocating. But there are inconsistencies with both the type and immediacy of the penalties and with the general acceptance of fans and media.

 

[84 Baby]

You cannot sue if you have no legal grounds to.

Correct but as per Parra below incorrect testing procedures leading to loss of income would be grounds.

Not more 'sanctity of the contract' BS. It seems that the drug test standards and conditions set the bar way lower than a criminal court, yet the results are taken on face value.

Results are taken on face value by those who accept them. If the matter was taken to court, the testee could ask the court and the tester to be able to scrutinise the procedures and the findings. And in fact the opportunity has come up far more times in criminal cases than civil. If the drug ban was due to a legally prohibited recreational drug that incurred criminal penalties, the accused would have perfect opportunity and desire to scrutinise the testing. Shockingly, very few do and probably for the same reason very few professional bans go to civil cases, the sports person knows they have taken the substance.

Take a look at the BALCO case, it probably isn't a landmark case for sports banning but it did look into testing.

 

[Eels Dude]

Correct but as per Parra below incorrect testing procedures leading to loss of income would be grounds.


Results are taken on face value by those who accept them. If the matter was taken to court, the testee could ask the court and the tester to be able to scrutinise the procedures and the findings. And in fact the opportunity has come up far more times in criminal cases than civil. If the drug ban was due to a legally prohibited recreational drug that incurred criminal penalties, the accused would have perfect opportunity and desire to scrutinise the testing. Shockingly, very few do and probably for the same reason very few professional bans go to civil cases, the sports person knows they have taken the substance.

Take a look at the BALCO case, it probably isn't a landmark case for sports banning but it did look into testing.

Very good point andn completely relevent in this particular case.

 

[Parra]

84 Baby I agree. Results are taken on face value by those who accept them and the lack of challenges is telling.

The testing system is fallible, yet it is rarely questioned by anyone.

For more serious issues seems everyone has an opinion and many are willing to sow seeds of doubt wherever they can. No need for all the facts either.

This example seems a clear case of players unknowingly taking something that would have a negligible affect anyway. The time served already appears excessive.

 

[Snoochies]

Wish someone would have put Humbles name in the title of this thread. I've been looking at the title without any interest of clicking it simply because I thought it would be about some U20 player.

 

[parra pete]

Wish someone would have put Humbles name in the title of this thread. I've been looking at the title without any interest of clicking it simply because I thought it would be about some U20 player.

Wot! You thought it was about an U20 player instead of someone who should know better..whether they were the players or the blokes who gave it to them.
Does anyone else find it strange that the 'top notchers' don't take these supplements - only the blokes trying to gain an edge?
Feel sorry for Tom and Brendan for taking the junk, but really, they should be more alert and aware of what substances the tablets - or whatever form it was - copntained.
Kurt Foggo appealed and had his ban lifted. Can't see any reason why Humble and Oake won't get the same result, especially with Geoff Bellew representing them..

 

[The Major]

Jack3d is rife through many sports. It gives you a more healthier, safer kick from a couple of scoops then having to chug say 3 cans of Red Bull or V before competition as many League players do. Its ok for people to do that and risk a bloody heart attack then to have a safer option that has no valid proof that it enhances anyones sporting ability. I hate how the media is beating this up as a huge drug matter in its headlines only to find its a pissy little flower extract, something natural, not like synthetic steroids or something when you read on. And to top it off, its not on the banned list anymore. Why do the trainers cop the blame for this? I dont read any reports of the Wenty staff pinning them down and tipping it down their throats. If in fact, that even happened. Whos to say they didnt drink the stuff at home before getting to the ground? Stinks of a cover up and the staff are copping the fall for it. Has been the worlds worst kept secret since when? It said after a Wenty game at the end of last season. Why so long for it to come out now? I think the club, whether its Parra or Wenty should take some ownership here and let us know what really happened. Fat people know they shouldnt eat KFC when all the top doctors and health professionals tell them otherwise but hey, guess what, most dont give a shit, ignore the professionals advice and get stuck in regardless. Humble and Oake are grown ups. They dont need people to hold their hands. Theyd have known the risks as they wouldnt be the only ones taking Jack3d. Show some backbone fellas and come clean. Osborne and a high price solicitor wont save your asses and you know it.