End nears for suburban NRL grounds

[Lockyer4President!]

Ok i wont make up hypotheticals (which in reality are actual likely scenarios), lets just take the games there and then after its a disaster lets just say "oh yeah maybe we were wrong".

ON the free ticket thing, does anybody else see the irony of giving free tickets to increase crwod averages?

The free tickets for kids works well as an introduction to the sport and gets them hooked. I think it's fair to say we would've seen it years ago in the NRL had we not been in such a bad state post SL War.

 

[Ausguy]

The free tickets for kids works well as an introduction to the sport and gets them hooked. I think it's fair to say we would've seen it years ago in the NRL had we not been in such a bad state post SL War.

I agree, what i dont like is how we as a code gave it to GWS deluxe about giving away 10000 tickets but when we say its for school kids its ok.

Cake... eat it etc.

 

[Ausguy]

You mean worse case scenarios, for the worst drawing games? It could well be a possibility, just like a bumper crowd could be a possibility for a good drawing game. But if you don't give it a go (and be selective, not just move lock, stock and barrel) and see how it goes you'll never know.

And yes, I'm not a big fan of the ticket give away either.

Ok fair enough... lets be real... why should the sharks move a game V lets say Souths which next year would draw say 17000- 19000 at shark park to sfs or homebush (now a souths home game) just to get maybe 21K?

Im now not using a poor performing opposition.

Sharks lose home ground advantage, patronage and Member buy in for what?

Im not being deliberatly painful here i am suggesting just as Carch is that for Cronulla specifically moving any game from Toyota is not a good idea in the current climate.

 

[carcharias]

We are talking about ~12 games a year, the vast majority of which for the next decade+ will likely remain at Shark Park.

Making the effort to go to one or two big games at the SFS per year when you have had several months notice on the exact times and dates is imo not that big of an ask if you're a fan of the club or the game in general.

no
people are talking about a permanent move to the SFS using one centralized stadium.

and that would mean more than 12 games per year .

You obviously have no idea about the logistics of living in Sydney.

Plus.....there is nothing wrong with shark park.
Plenty of seats if you want one.

 

[newman]

A Sharkies home game at ANZ v the dogs/eels/WT/Rabbits could reasonably be expected to sell 20-30,000 tickets.

Re: the gameday club takings, each club is different, but the Eels CEO was pretty direct a couple weeks ago when he said that the club takes less money on game day. I've been assured that its the same for Saints Leagues. Make of that what you will. I'm not privy to the financials of the Sharkies club, though more people doesn't always result in more turnover.

You are on crack.

The Sharks played against the Dogs and SOuths at ANZ in 2012 and the crowds were 12,012 and 13,281 respectively.

The last time the Sharks played at the SFS (V Roosters 2011) the crowd was 8,900.

On the second point, Sharks Leagues club lives and dies on game day trade. Remove those 11 days from the calendar and it goes broke. Dont forget that Cronulla OWN Toyota stadium. They work on a vastly different game day cost structure than anyone else.

If both teams are going well, playing entertaining footy, with decent weather, I don't see why not.

You seem to assume that 1) no Sharkies supporters live outside of the Shire, 2) that those in the Shire won't travel and 3) that the opposition fans wouldn't turn up in droves (just because they don't current drive down to the Shire).

He Assumes that because it is true.

- Sharks memberships demographic are 80% from the "greater shire". Supporter numbers of the Sharks are 70% (circa) in the shire.
- Well 40 odd years of 1st grade Rugby League give us a fair indication that Sharkies fans are poor travellers. Its a fact. How do you expect to change that?
- Bugger away supporters. Its not the home teams job to market a game to away supporters and therefore nullify your advantage.

 

[newman]

This is the exact kind of situation that the NRL could assist with if it's at a central stadium. Discount tickets for members of other clubs, schoolkids getting in free, etc.

So you piss everyone off. Force a team to move against its will, get no people willing to show up and then essentially have to pay people to go. The clubs and the NRL both lose money. Genius Idea!

 

[The Elephant In The room]

Ok fair enough... lets be real... why should the sharks move a game V lets say Souths which next year would draw say 17000- 19000 at shark park to sfs or homebush (now a souths home game) just to get maybe 21K?

Im now not using a poor performing opposition.

Sharks lose home ground advantage, patronage and Member buy in for what?

Im not being deliberatly painful here i am suggesting just as Carch is that for Cronulla specifically moving any game from Toyota is not a good idea in the current climate.

You may well be right, particulalry about "giving away" home ground advantage, so I suppose my question is at what "crowd point" does a move make sense? Is it 25,000, 30,000? Or in the case of one of the big stadiums point of view, is there a $ guarantee that you think it would be worth moving x number of games for?

I like and respect you and Carch's passion about the Sharks and shark park, even if I can't see how that passion doesn't lead to a desire to follow your team to a different venue (and I don't mean that as having a go at you guys because you obviously love your club, it is simply that I honestly don't know why "venue" is so important to you). I probably see less Eels games a year at Parra Stadium than I do at other stadiums, but admittedly I don't live (nor follow a team based) on the edge of Sydney.

 

[newman]

Ill tell you why the venue is so important to us. Because we grew up going there. And we have genuine good times at the place. We feel apart of it.


For example, Carch and I will meet before the game a couple of times a year in the club for a few beers. Chew the fat. Then walk over to our seats. When we say a couple of beers I mean cold beer of our choice in a glass. I used to walk to the ground. He gets a lift from home with his Mrs and she picks him up, or he drives and through local knowledge knows where to park to get a speedy exit. We both meet a group of mates at the game who all live local (and in my mates case I can guarantee they wouldnt go to SFS/ANZ because in the 10 years weve been meeting up theyve probably been to one Sydney away game) and we have some rad times.

The company I work for has a box at ANZ stadium, so I go there regularly (about 20 times a year) for a variety of events. Ive been to Grand Finals, State of Origin, Soccer, Rugby and Cricket there. Where would I prefer to go? Shark Park. Its local and I know my crew will be there. Its become ingrained in our lives and if that ritual were to be killed off, I would be very, very sad. I know that I speak for at least 10 other people too. I know that whatevers happening, I can rock up to the game in our usual spot and there will be our group. In our spot. Supporting our team.

 

[Ausguy]

TEITR

As mentioned by Newman, the Sharks are a bit different in game day operations. Owning the ground allows the club to not pay a cent in rent for the ground use. Now im going to take some guesses here but i know the grounds people are employed by sharks, the security would be contracted as are the food outlets as far as im aware. So the logistics and specifics of the $ made in the ground is up for confirmation, Newman maybe you can help out here?

What i do know is without next years 11 games at home the Leagues Club would struggle to make ends meet. Its like removing all of December trade for retailers, it really is the largest chunk of the pie for the year.

Your question was at what point does the move make sense?

To me the answer is until we have had to put the Ground Full sign up 1 time then it shouldnt be considered. This is not likely to happen ever, especially if the club plans to expand the capacity with the development.

As for the $ component that could be offered, this now IMO is not a carrott that we need to bite at. Before the development approval this was a definiate option and one we would have taken no doubt.

For the time being, its my firm belief that all SHarks home games should be played at Toyota. The club has the lowest amount of members, everyone says how low they are, to improve this the club needs to offer something back and that something is a guarantee to watch games AT HOME.

 

[applesauce]

What if Sydney NRL clubs offered a membership that got you GA into any game at Homebush and SFS (have a big 'neutral' bay), make it about $100?

Then fans of say Penrith or North Queensland etc that live near Homebush/SFS will be able to go to watch a game even if their team isn't involved but still be an 'away' member of their club. It would help boost membership numbers of teams with smaller population bases (Manly, Penrith, Canberra) by offering a real incentive to being an 'away' member.

Homebush and SFS would see huge increases in attendance, clubs would get a significant boost in membership income and the closer those stadiums are full each week the closer we get to a self fulling prophecy where others join up to enjoy the atmosphere and ambiance of a half to full stadium (like non-Broncos fans at Suncorp).

 

[Ausguy]

Why not just reduce the GA price full stop.

Again if we want to have huge crowds, just open the gates.

Rather than having a "if we move it they will come" attitude why isnt the arlc looking at the reasons why families or individuals are choosing to use their discretionary spend elsewhere. I could think of 3 reasons straight away.

 

[betcats]

Ill tell you why the venue is so important to us. Because we grew up going there. And we have genuine good times at the place. We feel apart of it.


For example, Carch and I will meet before the game a couple of times a year in the club for a few beers. Chew the fat. Then walk over to our seats. When we say a couple of beers I mean cold beer of our choice in a glass. I used to walk to the ground. He gets a lift from home with his Mrs and she picks him up, or he drives and through local knowledge knows where to park to get a speedy exit. We both meet a group of mates at the game who all live local (and in my mates case I can guarantee they wouldnt go to SFS/ANZ because in the 10 years weve been meeting up theyve probably been to one Sydney away game) and we have some rad times.

The company I work for has a box at ANZ stadium, so I go there regularly (about 20 times a year) for a variety of events. Ive been to Grand Finals, State of Origin, Soccer, Rugby and Cricket there. Where would I prefer to go? Shark Park. Its local and I know my crew will be there. Its become ingrained in our lives.

The sharks have struggled for most of their time in the league, like Penrith, but there have always been some very loyal fans(it may be a small number, but still) show up to the games through even the toughest of times. Why? because these fans feel like it is their team. Take the Cronulla Sharks out of Cronulla or the Penrith Panthers out of Penrith and you lose that imo.

It would be easier for me personally to get to ANZ now having away from the Riff and I am still vehemently opposed to the idea of playing anywhere other then Penrith.

If we were 18k average and there was no chance of a satadium upgrade then maybe I could consider it, but we are not, and there still is a chance.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

Why not just reduce the GA price full stop.

Again if we want to have huge crowds, just open the gates.

Because it's about money and increasing match day revenues for clubs, in order for them to become more sustainable. I don't think they've set that target solely to be able to boast about it.

It isn't as simple as just dropping prices.

 

[Ausguy]

Because it's about money and increasing match day revenues for clubs, in order for them to become more sustainable. I don't think they've set that target solely to be able to boast about it.

It isn't as simple as just dropping prices.

I know.

Thats my point.

Dropping prices and boasting about higher attendances means nothing. Sure there are potential future benefits but what we dont want to hear is how large the crowds are if half the people walked in for free.

Might aswell count both feet.

 

[newman]

I know.

Thats my point.

Dropping prices and boasting about higher attendances means nothing. Sure there are potential future benefits but what we dont want to hear is how large the crowds are if half the people walked in for free.

Might aswell count both feet.

Ive had some pretty robust discussions with both Irvine and Zappia about this. An empty seat is a seat that makes you $0. Applying a lastminute.com or rolling price strategy to me makes a lot of sense.

 

[Ausguy]

How do you justify the price rise when you spike it for a derby when last weeks game was $15 against Nth Qld?

Dangerous water.

 

[Frailty]

I think the NRL should use a model similar to the AFL...

Walk up tickets are cheaper than if you book them beforehand. Essentially you pay for the guarantee that you get entry when you prebook, or risk missing out if a game is sold out.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

Ive had some pretty robust discussions with both Irvine and Zappia about this. An empty seat is a seat that makes you $0. Applying a lastminute.com or rolling price strategy to me makes a lot of sense.

They started doing this SOO this year didn't they? Works well for likely sell out games, but I'm not sure how it would go H&A when people know that they will almost always be able to buy a ticket at the last minute at an x% discount. I think it would just dilute your earnings rather than increase them. But again, probably worth a punt on a select basis to trial it, particulalry if you can get the NRL on board to offer a bit of backing if the trial is a negative.

What all clubs should be doing is getting 2,000 of their shittiest seat locations (which are empty 95% of the year anyway) and offering them up as season tickets at a vast discount (ie even cheaper than GA seats). Hardcore fans will still buy their usual seats because they like their position, but it might give a more casual fan the reason to become a ST holder and hopefully upgrade them to a better and higher $ value seat the following year.

 

[Ausguy]

We just dont sell out enough games though frailty.

I think we need to look at the whole game day experience at an nrl level, not club level. USe some of the money the game has got to support all clubs. Create atmosphere that appeals to more than just the same people every year. Remove the 45 min gap between toyota cup and first grade. Get really good deals on family passes, moderate the price of food in the grounds and subsidise if possible. So many options that are better than.... "hey here are some tickets for free. Enjoy."

 

[Ausguy]

They started doing this SOO this year didn't they? Works well for likely sell out games, but I'm not sure how it would go H&A when people know that they will almost always be able to buy a ticket at the last minute at an x% discount. I think it would just dilute your earnings rather than increase them. But again, probably worth a punt on a select basis to trial it, particulalry if you can get the NRL on board to offer a bit of backing if the trial is a negative.

What all clubs should be doing is getting 2,000 of their shittiest seat locations (which are empty 95% of the year anyway) and offering them up as season tickets at a vast discount (ie even cheaper than GA seats). Hardcore fans will still buy their usual seats because they like their position, but it might give a more casual fan the reason to become a ST holder and hopefully upgrade them to a better and higher $ value seat the following year.

Stop making sense, you are ruining the forum. :crazy: