Essendon

[fizman]

I have a different take on this situation. My understanding is that Essendon as a "CLUB" have a case to answer in terms of systematic programs. If that is correct, the players may well be considered to be totally innocent.

With the Cronulla case, the "CLUB" has no case to answer in terms of systematic programs, but "INDIVIDUALS" within the organization including players may have a case to answer.

I believe that our Club has been cleared of any wrong doing in terms of systematic programs.

 

[Russell Crowe's Band]

Believe nothing

 

[cussy]

Not according to leaked emails from giveney to Flanagan fizman

 

[Card Shark]

Not according to leaked emails from giveney to Flanagan fizman

That's right.

Dank should've been gone the next day after Dr Giveney warned Flanno but he was around for another 5 weeks. Bad news.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Dank should've been gone the next day after Dr Giveney warned Flanno.

Why?

 

[Card Shark]

Why?

Because Flanno said to stop it but him being there indicates it wasnt stopped.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

I dont understand? Stop what? Injections? Currently you would see probably 20-30 needles a week at the club. Soem for pain, some for vitamins & some for draining.
Whats the difference?

 

[blacktip-reefy]

& manly had the same injections for 4 years, which is mostly activogen.

 

[Card Shark]

I dont understand? Stop what? Injections? Currently you would see probably 20-30 needles a week at the club. Soem for pain, some for vitamins & some for draining.
Whats the difference?

Yes injections of the product that caused Gordon's problems. Flanno said it was to stop at this point but Dank was still around.

What he was giving them is a mystery to me. Obviously some injections are fine, some are not.

 

[Card Shark]

& manly had the same injections for 4 years, which is mostly activogen.

So this is not illegal? If that's all our players have been given, we wouldn't be the centre of all this attention.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

So this is not illegal? If that's all our players have been given, we wouldn't be the centre of all this attention.

No its not illegal nor was it banned.What people are failing to realise is that whatever the Sharks have taken in terms of Danks snake oils, they were not banned at the time. & those that are banned now, wont be for much longer.
Just remember the 3 points for clarification of a banned substance.
1. proven performance enhancing
2. Not approved for human use
3. Against the spirit of the sport.

2 of those things have to be checked for it to be banned.

Steroid epo's etc are all banned because it is proven they are performance enhancing to elite athletes & against the spirit of the sport. They are approved for human use. & rightly so they are banned.

The peps(activogen as well) that everybody has supposedly taken, are not performance enhancing. In fact, quite the opposite. WADA will have to prove they are, to ban using criteria 1. They will lose that.

Not approved for human use. Where? I am 100% sure they will be approved in Costa Rica & or Venezuela, if the peps are rejuvenating types & do actually work aswell as tests are showing. Despite that, the peps are the 2nd most exciting thing to happen in medicine recently along with the supposed cancer cure. They will be approved in a matter of months. (refer to Kurt Foggo banning, overturned because product became approved)
& we are the centre of attention because labor told ACC & ASADA to target the weak & get scalps. If Labor, the ACC were serious, what is more important? Wade Graham taking a substance , that qualifies as banned because it satisfies a 60 year old law that says "against he spirit of the sport" or that some dude jsut threw $2 million in a team owners pocket so they would throw the game? ie match fixing.

 

[Longy]

Yes injections of the product that caused Gordon's problems. Flanno said it was to stop at this point but Dank was still around.

What he was giving them is a mystery to me. Obviously some injections are fine, some are not.

Gordon was never injected with anything, he admitted it himself. Warfarin is not a banned substance, its a blood thinner, so is aspirin. He got a bruise playing footy......next

He described Dank as a ''strange dude'' he never spoke to during his time at the club. He admitted he was often given a liquid before games but never received an injection. ''I was never injected with anything at Cronulla,'' Gordon said.
''The only thing I ever took was a drink before the game. I was never injected at the Sharks and when I heard the reports, it came as a big surprise to me. I've never seen anyone at the club injected. If it happened, they did it individually in another room and kept it all from us. We would've seen it if it was happening in front of us.''

m.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/i-was-told-it-was-bruising-youd-only-see-on-a-90yearold-lady-20130321-2gitt.html

 

[cussy]

! Warfarin isn't a drug that you just give out like panadol, in fact it's a drug that you give if you absolutely have to. It's side effects are horrendous in people who do day to day activities let alone one of the most brutal games in the world. Regardless of what you think of gordon the medical staff/ dank could have killed him and believe me I've seen the effects warfarin has if not treated with the respect it deserves. Same with giving drugs " not for human use" , its labelled that way for a reason either it's still in experimental stage or used for animals therefore no right to be treating people like gueniea pigs. Either the med staff/ team at fault and therefore systematic or player at fault therefore individual bans will be enforced. No common ground I reckon.

 

[Longy]

It would be good if you could elaborate on the side effects you've seen. It has been reported Manly used it for quite a while as well with no problems. I may have been taking the piss slightly comparing it to aspirin.....

The "not for human use" tag was a simple mistake remember..... m.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/equineuseonly-tag-a-simple-mistake-20130403-2h75y.html

Another questionable but perfectly legal substance.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

! Warfarin isn't a drug that you just give out like panadol, in fact it's a drug that you give if you absolutely have to. It's side effects are horrendous in people who do day to day activities let alone one of the most brutal games in the world. Regardless of what you think of gordon the medical staff/ dank could have killed him and believe me I've seen the effects warfarin has if not treated with the respect it deserves. Same with giving drugs " not for human use" , its labelled that way for a reason either it's still in experimental stage or used for animals therefore no right to be treating people like gueniea pigs. Either the med staff/ team at fault and therefore systematic or player at fault therefore individual bans will be enforced. No common ground I reckon.

They are awaiting approval.
on the warfarin issue, does anybody really think that Gordon was given a cup of warfarin snake oil before running out onto the field? What a croc of shyt. he was most likely given the warfarin as a cream, in recovery, to elimate a cork or something. In the old days they used to use a schooner glass that had been vaccuumed by a cnadle to suck the blood of the muscle.
Nice post longy.

 

[cussy]

Side effects I've seen : intranet occular bleed leading to blindness, massive intra- cranial haemorrage leading to "Coneing" of the brain whereby its pushed down the spinal column due to the increasing pressure, massive haematoma, gastro bleeding where person basically vomits or shits out there own blood leading to death there some of the few been many minor ones as well whereby person lost blood we were able to replace but if left end result would have been death. You don't get the sort of bleeding described by Gordon from using cream. Point is its not a medication to be used willy nilly. Any medical professional worth their salt wouldn't be using it unless absolutely necessary. Warfarin doesn't come in cream and its not snake oil but a medication tried and tested for human use under specific circumstances.

 

[Card Shark]

Good info thanks guys

 

[Longy]

Side effects I've seen : intranet occular bleed leading to blindness, massive intra- cranial haemorrage leading to "Coneing" of the brain whereby its pushed down the spinal column due to the increasing pressure, massive haematoma, gastro bleeding where person basically vomits or shits out there own blood leading to death there some of the few been many minor ones as well whereby person lost blood we were able to replace but if left end result would have been death. You don't get the sort of bleeding described by Gordon from using cream. Point is its not a medication to be used willy nilly. Any medical professional worth their salt wouldn't be using it unless absolutely necessary. Warfarin doesn't come in cream and its not snake oil but a medication tried and tested for human use under specific circumstances.

Seems like some fairly nasty stuff, maybe should be banned or at least controlled a little better.

I take it these sort of side affects are happening to people who were already in a fair amount of bother with other conditions?

 

[Stuff]

I read somewhere (in one of th papers) very early on in this whole affair that under WADA, if 3 or more players from one club are found guilty of taking banned substances then the national team can be excluded from competition.
If that's the correct there can be no comparison between action taken by the AFL and potential action taken by the NRL.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Side effects I've seen : intranet occular bleed leading to blindness, massive intra- cranial haemorrage leading to "Coneing" of the brain whereby its pushed down the spinal column due to the increasing pressure, massive haematoma, gastro bleeding where person basically vomits or shits out there own blood leading to death there some of the few been many minor ones as well whereby person lost blood we were able to replace but if left end result would have been death. You don't get the sort of bleeding described by Gordon from using cream. Point is its not a medication to be used willy nilly. Any medical professional worth their salt wouldn't be using it unless absolutely necessary. Warfarin doesn't come in cream and its not snake oil but a medication tried and tested for human use under specific circumstances.

Then if Danks snake oil creams didnt contain warfarin, the players never took warfarin. Good.