expansion and the groundless "heartland loss" ideal

[jabroni]

If manly had public transport to games that was as simple to access as any other ground, they would get a lot more people. They dont have the members as they dont have adequate parking or facilities. If the investment was made to improve the ground and turn the park on the northern end into a multi level carpark, above and under ground, Manly would attract alot more member and people to the ground. If they had any sort of rail link or better toll free roads to the game, they would improve alot more. Where has this mentality of relocating come from. The problems faced by Manly in terms of transport are problems that the whole community faces on a daily basis. Maybe they should all move to the Central Coast or Sunshine Coast as well. Just on the Central Coast. Have any of the relocation pushers ever driven to the central coast on a friday or Saturday night, or tried to catch public transport. I dont think so?

 

[Brycey]

I have.

 

[mark123]

While in principle your argument is sound you have picked a poor example in Manly. Since the Bears departed juniour league has fallen away dramatically in the North sydney region. your argument that if Manly relocated there would be no effect in support is ridiculous - Manly fans would not support a relocated team to the Central Coast and rugby union would be "given" free reign from the bridge to the Central Coast.

All grounds for all major sports are only improved as a result of government funding. The disgracefull state of Brookvale oval is a direct result of unfair distribution of government funds (or corruption). That Leicchardt (3 games a year), Cambelltown (3 or 4? games a year), Kogarah (6 games) can receive the funding they have while Brookvale gets nothing has more to do with Govts improving their chances of re-election than the efficient allocation of govt money. If this type of thing happened in a third world country it would be branded as typical second rate corruption and yet nothing is said in NSW (I guess we are used to it).

If you wanted to apply your argument it would be better used on the sharks or the roosters / rabbits as the juniors of the removed team could be taken over by a close neighbour. Even then, you are dreaming if you think supporters would accept it.

thank you for replying everyone, but to the person i quoted especially.

I understand where you are coming from.

The state of brookvale oval is unfortunate as are the circumstances. The same argument could be applied to any team, not just those you mentioned.

League should support itself more in expansion and more in its heartlands, and that for all the good rl has done, it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to supporting itself.

One factor of supporting oneself, to coin a concept, is not to have too many children if your income is low. It will severely effect the quality of your life. Applying to the too many teams in sydney situation.

Such is league. Is that good support? Overpopulating a city with teams?

 

[manlyone]

Given the Roosters and Rabbits live in each others pockets one of them would be the logical first choice for relocation. Since both have money these days the next criteria would have to be who has the stongest juniors and/or supporters. We could argue about the level of support (the roosters lose two games in a row and their crowd drops to 5,000) but the roosters have almost zero junior league so it becomes no brainer that they should go.

Next to feel nervous (given the dragons close proximity) would have to be the sharks who always struggle financially.

While I am at it, if you are fair dinkum the Tigers should also be 100% based out of Campbelltown.

 

[mark123]

What "Successes" is that exactly?

Believe it or not, attendances show that we've been one of the best drawing Sydney Clubs since the late 1960's.

Playing out of an Archaic hole, we've managed 15k for the last three seasons, whilst enjoying a period of relative decentness in the last decade. By way of comparison, Brisbane had trouble drawing 20k to ANZ stadium even though they were winning premierships like it was buying some groceries in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

Manly simply needs a better stadium. The really dark years show that we've got about 10,000 loyal fans who are willing to turn up to Brookvale Oval (Which is a lot more of a stretch than the SFS), which is more than enough to build on.

To the person who said League hasn't died on the North Shore, get a clue. League on the Lower North Shore has fallen to pieces since the Bears dropped out of the comp. There's 2 clubs from about 5 in the late 1990's and about 8 from the late 1980's. Even a powerful club like Hornsby on the Upper North Shore has trouble fielding sides and Hills Hawks covers the area that about 3 clubs did a decadeago.

I think its a total crock of sugar that if people don't have a local suburban team to follow they will give league the poor treatment.

Your whole point about league falling apart there has nothing to do with anything other than league not supporting itself.

To get that, WE THE FANS need to support it to begin with. And then have the administration back us up.

 

[Brycey]

manlyone, we have more juniors than the Rabbitohs and Knights combined. Also bar the last 2 years where you have enjoyed considerable success and we have enjoyed considerable unsuccess we have beaten you in crowds, including 2005, a year we failed to make the playoffs.

We have strong membership numbers throughout Sydney and our crowd averages more often than not are on the top end of Sydney attendances.

Considering your team went from 11k to 16k averages in 2 years suggests you may have some fair weathered supporters yourself. While every club does, its idiotic that you make it a point of argument re: relocation.

 

[mark123]

If manly had public transport to games that was as simple to access as any other ground, they would get a lot more people. They dont have the members as they dont have adequate parking or facilities. If the investment was made to improve the ground and turn the park on the northern end into a multi level carpark, above and under ground, Manly would attract alot more member and people to the ground. If they had any sort of rail link or better toll free roads to the game, they would improve alot more. Where has this mentality of relocating come from. The problems faced by Manly in terms of transport are problems that the whole community faces on a daily basis. Maybe they should all move to the Central Coast or Sunshine Coast as well. Just on the Central Coast. Have any of the relocation pushers ever driven to the central coast on a friday or Saturday night, or tried to catch public transport. I dont think so?

I think unfortunately sydney has a huge raft of problems centered on getting around, and until the govt fixes it, nothing will change.

I agree Manly could get a bigger gate with a better stadium.

BUT this was never about manly getting the boot- it could be any sydney team except a few.

In my mind, Cronulla and sydney city should not be in sydney IMO. And Manly would have a new stadium to play out of OR everyone would be in acceptance of the SFS with improved public transport. Thats what I would like to see. I see the need to have a couple of teams in the "east" corridore of sydney.

 

[manlyone]

Sorry Mark123 I posted at the same time as you - my most recent response was meant for the Rooster guy who finally goaded me into responding again!!

I think we are taking the argument to, too heavy a level if we are involving the number of children poor people have!! I'll stick by my argument of football ground funding being based on -:
1. corruption (would the sharks or dragons have received money if Costello / Howard weren't involved with these clubs),
2. govt incomepetence (Campbelltown was only built 10 years ago and already they need to pump in more money to fix it) and
3. politicians expediancy of using tax payer money to shore up support in marginal seats (witness Leichardt receiving money and brookvale not (strong liberal))

 

[manlyone]

manlyone, we have more juniors than the Rabbitohs and Knights combined. Also bar the last 2 years where you have enjoyed considerable success and we have enjoyed considerable unsuccess we have beaten you in crowds, including 2005, a year we failed to make the playoffs.

We have strong membership numbers throughout Sydney and our crowd averages more often than not are on the top end of Sydney attendances.

Considering your team went from 11k to 16k averages in 2 years suggests you may have some fair weathered supporters yourself. While every club does, its idiotic that you make it a point of argument re: relocation.

Allright I'll bite ..... you have more juniors than the rabbits & Knights combined???

 

[Brycey]

Yes we do. Care to prove me wrong?

 

[mark123]

Sorry Mark123 I posted at the same time as you - my most recent response was meant for the Rooster guy who finally goaded me into responding again!!

I think we are taking the argument to, too heavy a level if we are involving the number of children poor people have!! I'll stick by my argument of football ground funding being based on -:
1. corruption (would the sharks or dragons have received money if Costello / Howard weren't involved with these clubs),
2. govt incomepetence (Campbelltown was only built 10 years ago and already they need to pump in more money to fix it) and
3. politicians expediancy of using tax payer money to shore up support in marginal seats (witness Leichardt receiving money and brookvale not (strong liberal))

you read too much into the children thing. we just didnt understand each other

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Expansion is absolutely vital yet realistically we don't have the money or quality players to run many more teams in the NRL than we already have. To please every city/area that wants a team we'd be looking at well ovefr 20 teams if the current 16 remain. Central Coast, Wellington and Perth have made their intentions clear, Adelaide, Brisbane (2), Sunshine Coast and even PNG are also possibilities (though some of these are unlikely). We do really need a Perth team especially if we are to claim a true national comp. So to me the solutions, or at least the options, are clear - we have to tinker with the current clubs one way or another or find more money and more players. Money is limited so long as News owns the NRL and players don't grow on trees either. A lot of work needs to be done and even then it might not be possible. I don't know what the answer is when it comes to rationalisation of Sydney teams because none will relocate or merge without a fight and I'm not sure we can afford more of that either. Rocks and hard places.

 

[macavity]

Allright I'll bite ..... you have more juniors than the rabbits & Knights combined???

bwahahahahahaha

bwahahahahahahaha

haha

sorry

bwahahahahaha

delusional much?

 

[manlyone]

I know for a fact your one and only U17 team had to play in the Manly comp a couple of years ago, there was an article last year (Nov Telegraph) confirming the Roosters only have 4 junior clubs and a total of 1000 players ...... pathetic ..... tell me the last junior to play for the Roosters & by that I don't mean a 15 year old they brought from NZ or the Western Suburbs but a kid who grewq up in the area .....

 

[manlyone]

you read too much into the children thing. we just didnt understand each other

No worries

 

[Brycey]

bwahahahahahaha

bwahahahahahahaha

haha

sorry

bwahahahahaha

delusional much?

Tell me who administers the local junior rugby league competition in Newcastle?

Tell me how many junior clubs have agreements in place to exclusively supply the Knights with players?

As a former junior I know the answers, do you?

 

[macavity]

oooh

we are playing semantics

nice one.

for the record, the Newcastle RL administers junior RL in Newcastle and have 2 seats on the Knights board.

we don't need to go cap-in-hand to junior clubs from other areas like some teams.

 

[Brycey]

They may have seats on the board, but they also don't directly supply juniors into the club. Quality juniors have gone other places because the way it is set up the Knights do not have to contribute to the local competition, like Souths who have no junior clubs they take and take and take.

The Roosters have 4 junior clubs registered in an independant junior organisation. Souths have juniors in there as do Newtown, it just so happens to be called Souths Juniors.

 

[manlyone]

They may have seats on the board, but they also don't directly supply juniors into the club. Quality juniors have gone other places because the way it is set up the Knights do not have to contribute to the local competition, like Souths who have no junior clubs they take and take and take.

The Roosters have 4 junior clubs registered in an independant junior organisation. Souths have juniors in there as do Newtown, it just so happens to be called Souths Juniors.

Still waiting to hear who the last junior to come out of this massive nersery was?

 

[Scarves]

Okay... Someone seriously & forthrightly believes the Bondi Junction Club has more juniors playing Rugby League than the number of juniors playing the game in Newcastle. That is dead set cutting edge information.

Always be careful when debating with a person who has information that is so cutting edge that no one else knows it.

They may indeed have slid into our time from another far flung dimension where Punky Brewster is still on prime time television.