Expansion of the Women's Competition

[MugaB]

My response to that is either you didn't read my post above or that you need to read it again because you didn't understand it, because it addresses all of that and why it is a lazy argument.

Also if you got to play professionally you'd have played for the club that pays the most and/or offered you the best lifestyle just like everybody else, stop fooling yourself into thinking any different.

No, the Rooster, Melbourne, and Broncos sign more marquee players because the markets that they operate in give them easier access to larger amounts of third party money that isn't capped by the NRL, which means that they can offer more money per-contract then most of the competition which leads to them being able to hire more players of a higher standard then most of the competition.

To rehash a joke that is getting rather stale, they are rolling around wearing salary sombreros while most everybody else are stuck wearing caps.

I also find it pretty funny that you think that the Roosters are a particularly well supported club.

I mean you could have just Googled them...

But to give you a better idea, Canberra United are the only club in the W-league that are independent of the A-league clubs, i.e. there isn't and has never been a Canberra United men's side (or a Canberra A-league side for that matter), and the club was formed by and for women in the interest of growing and supporting women's soccer in the ACT.

So to create a hypothetical analogy in RL, imagine that the NRLW was expanded to include a side that isn't connected to any of the NRL teams from a place without an NRL side, and you'd have what Canberra United are to the W-league in the NRLW.

Im not fooling myself, if i got a chance to play for panthers for less money, or parra for more money, i'd choose panthers, again thats just me, and there are players who want that. I suppose it the luxury of if the club wants you as a player.

I agree on the roosters not being that well supported tho,

And i read your post, i just dont agree with it

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Would anyone consider the PNG Hunters for the NRLW? The men's team will probably never get into the NRL but this could do wonders for the game in PNG and the women's international game. Finances don't seem to be an issue for the Hunters with sponsors and Governments throwing money at PNGRL.

 

[The Great Dane]

Im not fooling myself, if i got a chance to play for panthers for less money, or parra for more money, i'd choose panthers, again thats just me, and there are players who want that. I suppose it the luxury of if the club wants you as a player.

Unless you are part of an extremely fortunate minority of people who can afford to turn down tens of thousands of dollars a year, potentially even hundreds of thousands of dollars on the odd occasion, then you most certainly are fooling yourself...

And i read your post, i just dont agree with it

No offense dude, but from the way that you responded to the argument you don't even understand it to be capable of disagreeing with it, and after my experiences of constantly rephrasing ideas and arguments over and over to try and get some of the other posters on here to understand something I've come to the realisation that it simply isn't worth the time or effort.

 

[The Great Dane]

Would anyone consider the PNG Hunters for the NRLW? The men's team will probably never get into the NRL but this could do wonders for the game in PNG and the women's international game. Finances don't seem to be an issue for the Hunters with sponsors and Governments throwing money at PNGRL.

I wouldn't be so worried about whether or not PNG could support an NRLW team as I would be about whether or not the other clubs with NRLW sides would be willing to deal with all the costs and time associated with traveling between Australia/NZ and PNG for an NRLW game.

 

[MugaB]

Unless you are part of an extremely fortunate minority of people who can afford to turn down tens of thousands of dollars a year, potentially even hundreds of thousands of dollars on the odd occasion, then you most certainly are fooling yourself...
No offense dude, but from the way that you responded to the argument you don't even understand it to be capable of disagreeing with it, and after my experiences of constantly rephrasing ideas and arguments over and over to try and get some of the other posters on here to understand something I've come to the realisation that it simply isn't worth the time or effort.

Yes buddy stop trying to argue, people are allowed not to accept your views.
In your brain, money must justify every sporting decision ever made.
And when you start a sentence with "no offence" you're already being offensive.
Take a break from telling it like it is, or should be, i'm comfortable with choosing a club over more money elsewhere, its how most players did it pre 90's, most players had jobs working 9-5, Professional sport is rubbish, please insert player here mentality, no heart, no heritage.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yes buddy stop trying to argue, people are allowed not to accept your views.

Firstly there's a monumental difference between trying to get somebody to understand your views and trying to force somebody to accept your views...

Secondly what an utterly ridiculous thing to say!

Have you even stopped to think what happens when people can't express their points of view, and yes argue their points of view when they come to a moral, ideological, or logical impasse!? They start killing each other, because if you can't come to a conclusion through discussion the only other way is to do it through violence.

So maybe you should grow a f**king sack and build the capability to defend your ideas instead of hiding behind faux moral outrage every time somebody challenges you or your ideas.

In your brain, money must justify every sporting decision ever made.

You couldn't even understand what I think when I not only told you what I think but held your hand through the process of explaining why I think it and how I came to that conclusion. . . So maybe, just maybe, you are the worst person on the planet to try to divine what I think and as such should probably stop.

And when you start a sentence with "no offence" you're already being offensive.

No shit Sherlock!

Take a break from telling it like it is, or should be,

Okay I'll stop living in reality and I'll come live in an impossible fantasy land with you, for all the f**king good it'll do us when reality comes and bites us on the arse.

I mean what the hell do you even hope to achieve by completely disconnecting every discussion and idea from reality?

i'm comfortable with choosing a club over more money elsewhere, its how most players did it pre 90's, most players had jobs working 9-5,

Firstly, you've got the rose tinted glasses on, even back in the day players switched clubs regularly, admittedly not at the rate that they do now, but still it happened constantly.

Secondly, do you know why players switched clubs less pre-90's?

It's because footy wasn't their primary source of income, their "9-5" was, so they could afford to take less to stay at their preferred club if they wished to because it wouldn't seriously impact on their livelihood as what they earnt from footy was play money.

These days that's not possible because the players are full time professionals, i.e. footy is their 9 to 5.

Professional sport is rubbish, please insert player here mentality, no heart, no heritage.

Welcome back to reality, where professional sport is a business and everybody needs to be payed... That didn't take long did it!

Seriously though if you hate Professional sport so much why the f**k are you here?

If what you're into is watching park footy players play out of suburban shitholes for a pie and a can of coke then there's nothing and nobody stopping you from going and watching it instead of professional football.

So why don't you f**k off and go watch that if it's so much more 'pure and innocent'?

 

[MugaB]

Geez touchy much? Go and get F#d, hey? Such the business analyst here. Stop doing what youre doin people. Expert coming through, its the futurist, he knows what you need.
Howabout i just hold your hand, watch league life last nite on fox league, and see what Isabelle kelly and Heather Ballinger had to say about working 9-5, aswell as giving all (selling their own cars an what not) just to be able to play rugby league, the sacrifices past women players had to endure, so that they could get any professional recognition. So now theres a proper Womens comp that they're proud off, with juniors able to play right through to 1st grade.
then we watch as you dribble on about the NRL not giving them their own identity, seperated from the men's club affiliation, plus calling what they've done lazy.
Give me break, womens league clubs/comps already existed but wasnt regarded as "professional" or gained recognition, to where it is now, 1st time in 18+ years, the womens "interstate cup", is finally called and rightfully so "state of origin", and you still find a way to whinge "why they can't be like some soccer team in Canberra, seperated from the mens and more unique, you know the one? Nope?, just google it"
Mate THAT's lazy
Sorry to hype you up, but your quote for quote banter/rebutal is derailing the thread, and we've already had many "discussions" that you'd rather call arguments on various threads here, im a bit over your nonsense.

 

[The Great Dane]

Geez touchy much? Go and get F#d, hey? Such the business analyst here. Stop doing what youre doin people. Expert coming through, its the futurist, he knows what you need.

I never told you to "Go and get F#d", I never claimed to be a business analyst (nor BTW have I attempted to analyse any businesses in this thread), I never claimed to be an expert, and being amateur futurists is basically all that this subforum is about.

Howabout i just hold your hand, watch league life last nite on fox league, and see what Isabelle kelly and Heather Ballinger had to say about working 9-5, aswell as giving all (selling their own cars an what not) just to be able to play rugby league, the sacrifices past women players had to endure, so that they could get any professional recognition. So now theres a proper Womens comp that they're proud off, with juniors able to play right through to 1st grade.
then we watch as you dribble on about the NRL not giving them their own identity, seperated from the men's club affiliation, plus calling what they've done lazy.

I never called the women that played RL in the past or what they did lazy you dunce!

What I called lazy was the NRL's attitude towards the NRLW and women's football in general!

Give me break, womens league clubs/comps already existed but wasnt regarded as "professional" or gained recognition, to where it is now, 1st time in 18+ years, the womens "interstate cup", is finally called and rightfully so "state of origin"

You know why they weren't regarded as "professional", because they weren't paid professionals. . .

BTW thanks for making my argument that the NRL's attitude towards the women's game has been lazy for me.

, and you still find a way to whinge "why they can't be like some soccer team in Canberra, seperated fron the mens and more unique, you know the one? Nope?, just google it"
Mate thats lazy

Are you seriously calling me lazy because you were to figging lazy to google search a football team!? Dude you are unreal!

BTW that random soccer team in Canberra has a larger real support base then all the NRLW teams put together, for one thing they can't and don't rely people showing up early to watch their games when really they are there for the men's game...

Sorry to hype you up, but your quote for quote banter/rebutal is derailing the thread, and we've already had many "discussions" that you'd rather call arguments on various threads here, im a bit over your nonsense.

I have to break down your posts because you Gish gallop, since you are incapable of using Google that means that you spew a bunch of arguments all at once without elaborating on any individual one and assume that because you've spewed it out as quickly as possible that other people will only call you on some of it, thus giving you the opportunity to say 'ahh you couldn't respond to these arguments therefore you are wrong/ill-informed/stupid', when in reality they didn't respond to those other points because it'd take to long to respond to all of them. Luckily for me I have the time to respond to all of your points at the moment.

I'm also not the one derailing this thread! I was perfectly happy to talk about the subject of the thread, you were the one that turned the discussion away from the subject and onto me!

By the way the only one spewing nonsense is you!

I mean in the past you yourself have literally stated that you are just talking nonsense and have made an appeal that you should just be able to spew nonsense without others challenging it multiple times! You called it wish listing if I remember correctly.

I also note that you've completely failed to address anything that I've said in any of my previous posts and have instead opted to move the goal posts instead every single time... You really can't handle discussion and debate can you.

 

[MugaB]

I think you've got it wrong buddy, you've quoted me line for line, nearly every post, just to stick it to me, "challenging" is what you call it? thus the mass-debation has continued thus far.
I hadn't derailed this thread, I've been discussing women's rugby league, while you pander past quotes line for line, so you can defend your "views", on which i personally just didn't agree with, and not because i didn't understand it, and im the lazy one because i didn't rush to google for your A league soccer references.
Fantasy world indeed, womens national rugby league clubs need to emulate canberra soccer model, to be the pioneers, is basically what i got out of your lecturing. I'm sure souths and cronullas womens teams would be happy to get to hear that. Mate for all your rhetoric, and debate skills you miss the big picture, its not about starting a new brand, its about breaking the 1st grade male only club wall, if the NRLW comp expands, it has to branch to a club that exists. So that the girls that play can aspire to be the next Brigenshaw, or Langer, Throw out whatever ideas whatever works in other codes, league players idolise past league players, just as parra fans idolise sterling, bronx fans look up to langer, soon female players will be better represented as those past idols have, to future players no matter their sex.
you're too focused on quoting my sentences, to argue upon any relevance.
P.s. Dullard's a funny word

 

[The Great Dane]

I think you've got it wrong buddy, you've quoted me line for line, nearly every post, just to stick it to me, "challenging" is what you call it? thus the mass-debation has continued thus far.
I hadn't derailed this thread, I've been discussing women's rugby league, while you pander past quotes line for line, so you can defend your "views", on which i personally just didn't agree with, and not because i didn't understand it, and im the lazy one because i didn't rush to google for your A league soccer references.

For literally the last page of this thread you've actively turned the discussion away from the NRLW and onto me being a 'big meanie'...

I mean the evidence is literally right there for everyone to read.

Fantasy world indeed, womens national rugby league clubs need to emulate canberra soccer model, to be the pioneers, is basically what i got out of your lecturing.

I didn't say that...

I'm sure souths and cronullas womens teams would be happy to get to hear that. Mate for all your rhetoric, and debate skills you miss the big picture, its not about starting a new brand, its about breaking the 1st grade male only club wall, if the NRLW comp expands, it has to branch to a club that exists. So that the girls that play can aspire to be the next Brigenshaw, or Langer,

Why?

Seriously, why do you think that they have to be connected to clubs that already exist?

What makes you think that girls are so shallow that they won't want to play the game unless it's wearing a shirt that somebody else wore before them?

Why is it that this need to play for pre-existing brands is only a present in women?
Because if it was a present in men as well then the sport wouldn't exist at all because the clubs had to be invented in the first place for people to want to play for them, therefore if you go far enough back there were no old brands for people to aspire too, thus the sport would have died then and there.

Continuing on from the last point, why is expansion even possible at all if you need a recognised brand to attract players?
Because when e.g. the Panthers joined the comp they should have failed overnight because they had no history and great players to aspire to representing, thus nobody would want to play for them, thus they would have died then and there.

Throw out whatever ideas whatever works in other codes, league players idolise past league players, just as parra fans idolise sterling, bronx fans look up to langer, soon female players will be better represented as those past idols have, to future players no matter their sex.

Why do you assume that the culture will react radically differently to team sports because they have different sets of rule, and how can you prove that the cultural response will be different in this case not only because of the difference in codes but because it's women's sport instead of men's?

Why are you assuming that it's impossible that a little girl couldn't grow up wanting to play for the e.g. Brisbane Banshees like e.g. Ali Brigginshaw before her?
I.e. why are you assuming that it'd be impossible to establish new brands in the NRLW like the ones that were established in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL?

you're too focused on quoting my sentences, to argue upon any relevance.
P.s. Dullard's a funny word

I know that you don't actually respond to anything that somebody else says, but if you were to try to do so how would you do it without actually acknowledging what it is you were responding to?

Look man I don't really see the point in continuing to talk to you if you outright refuse to respond to anything that I've actually said or done and instead attack straw men that you've pulled out of your arse. So I really can't be arsed continuing anymore unless you actually respond to something that I've actually said or done.

 

[MugaB]

and after my experiences of constantly rephrasing ideas and arguments over and over to try and get some of the other posters on here to understand something I've come to the realisation that it simply isn't worth the time or effort.

Im in agreement

 

[MugaB]

Continuing on from the last point, why is expansion even possible at all if you need a recognised brand to attract players?
Because when e.g. the Panthers joined the comp they should have failed overnight because they had no history and great players to aspire to representing, thus nobody would want to play for them, thus they would have died then and there.

I.e. why are you assuming that it'd be impossible to establish new brands in the NRLW like the ones that were established in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL?

I never said that it couldn't work, nor is it impossible, infact i'd like to see it work, but only after a few more existing teams have the 1st grade womens teams established, within the clubs that exist, so there is instant access.
So everyone girl or boy can participate for that club upto an elite level.
Let's say for example, we get the comp to 8 teams, the 4 current ones plus newy, nthQld, melbourne, and wests.
Then expand to Perth and Adelaide where there is no male 1st grade team. Its the picture you painted with canberra united in soccer. it might work because your expanding ontop of an existing comp that's already recognisable after 10 years.
1908 had only 6 clubs last till 1980s
the others dropped out of the NSWRL.
Other teams were added after being dragons, bulldogs, eels, manly, sharks, and panthers. The nucleus of the comp was those 6 lasting teams vs dragons in 1921, then bulldogs in 35, and so on till sharks & panthers in 67 & so on till now. As to why penrith would have died overnight obviously not happening, its coz they played against the eels and roosters and all the teams that exist prior to them, and they gained support. Not all new teams in the ARL could do what the NSWRL did.
I never said anything like it couldnt be done, but the comps already got head start on its club branding, id rather see the women play league at the 1st grade level first at least for a while, before expansion of a new brand, or new city
I mean we have 16 teams already why not build off it, it has history.
you think i said itll fail if the comp started fresh without these brandings.

Im not arguing anymore, i see the reasoning, between playing for your childhood club, or region, or idols club.
and using whats established vs starting fresh and pioneering a fresh new comp from scratch.

Mate if you wanna speak without hurling insults, or attacking or mis quoting out of context, just prove your point. Then im happy to continue,
but if not..... have a good day either way

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I wouldn't be so worried about whether or not PNG could support an NRLW team as I would be about whether or not the other clubs with NRLW sides would be willing to deal with all the costs and time associated with traveling between Australia/NZ and PNG for an NRLW game.

I'm thinking an English Championship / Toronto Wolfpack situation where the Hunter's sponsors would chip in for travel and acommodation.I'm sure the Australian Government would help too as part of their Pacific Aid / Women's sport funding and the NRL / PNGRL could help too. The money is there, we just need to harness it. Most championship clubs are made up of part-time players that have jobs on the side so it would be a very comprable situation. Who wouldn't take an RDO / Annual leave day on the Friday to fly overseas and play the game you love? Just schedule it intelligently so that the girls fly over on Friday, play Saturday and are back on Sunday.

I know it is not a straight forward situation but if we can apply a bit of effort to get it off the ground it could be a great thing for the women's international game, a point of difference for the NRLW and a massive thing for PNGRL.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm thinking an English Championship / Toronto Wolfpack situation where the Hunter's sponsors would chip in for travel and acommodation.I'm sure the Australian Government would help too as part of their Pacific Aid / Women's sport funding and the NRL / PNGRL could help too. The money is there, we just need to harness it. Most championship clubs are made up of part-time players that have jobs on the side so it would be a very comprable situation. Who wouldn't take an RDO / Annual leave day on the Friday to fly overseas and play the game you love? Just schedule it intelligently so that the girls fly over on Friday, play Saturday and are back on Sunday.

I know it is not a straight forward situation but if we can apply a bit of effort to get it off the ground it could be a great thing for the women's international game, a point of difference for the NRLW and a massive thing for PNGRL.

Firstly, I don't think the Toronto Wolfpack is comparable to the situation you are proposing very much at all, because not only is there a very big difference between what goes into organising a trip to Canada and a trip to PNG, but because Championship is a stop gap for the Wolfpack and it's always been intended for that to be the case. But that's neither here nor there.

But yeah, again I don't really think it's a matter of whether or not it's possible or if the NRL can afford it or organise it, so much as if it's actually worth the hassle to them and the clubs.

Now you and I may see it as worth the hassle, but I doubt that the clubs (or frankly the NRL) will see it as worth the hassle), because from their point of view it's a lot of work for not a lot of return when their time and money could be better spent.

I mean let's be real for a moment, realistically all that they ( the clubs and the NRL) would be getting for going through organising all the visas, organising the security, all the other costs associated with travel, making sure every bodies got the time off, etc, is a game that's a massive hassle and is almost certainly going to make a loss, and probably will always make a loss.

Now again I agree that in a perfect world it'd be great for a PNG NRLW side to be in the comp (just as I agree it'd be great if there was a PNG NRL side), but realistically as things stand it's a non-starter for multiple reasons, and setting up a women's competition in PNG that feeds into the NRLW would probably be not only a cheaper way to achieve all the things you want to achieve but a more effective way to achieve what you want to achieve as well.

 

[The Great Dane]

Im in agreement

No you don't...

You aren't trying to get me to understand your point of view you are trying to cow me into accepting your moral standards!

 

[The Great Dane]

I mean we have 16 teams already why not build off it, it has history.

The clubs (like all the other clubs in all the other codes before them have already shown) aren't interested in sharing their history with the women's team to build up the women's sport off said history.

They are interested in acquiring a women's team as a publicity stunt and political bargaining chip. Which BTW the clubs with NRLW teams are already doing in demanding further grants on top of the ones that they already get 'to 'cover the 'unforeseen' costs of running a WNRL team', and they will continue to do so to make the women's team as cheap and easy for them as possible.

So long as the women's teams aren't the clubs bread ticket they will always be a disposable after thought that is only there as a useful token.

Mark my words, as soon as one of the sides that is running a WNRL comes into financial difficulty it'll be the NRLW side that sees all the cuts to their operations and not the NRL side, when the NRL side is where they are overspending and can afford the cuts.

I'm not arguing anymore, i see the reasoning, between playing for your childhood club, or region, or idols club.
and using whats established vs starting fresh and pioneering a fresh new comp from scratch.

No you don't, because that isn't even close to where the disagreement lays...

Mate if you wanna speak without hurling insults, or attacking or mis quoting out of context, just prove your point. Then im happy to continue,
but if not..... have a good day either way

Firstly, you go around being a passive aggressive twat, who thinks they are in a position to chastise others because for how they act, and you have the gall to get upset when somebody responds negatively!

Secondly not once have I misquoted you or quoted you out of context, I have always directly quoted you and provided the full context in my post as well!

 

[Perth Tiger]

Would anyone consider the PNG Hunters for the NRLW? The men's team will probably never get into the NRL but this could do wonders for the game in PNG and the women's international game. Finances don't seem to be an issue for the Hunters with sponsors and Governments throwing money at PNGRL.

Post number 3

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Post number 3

Mark me down as fully agreeing with your post

 

[Perth Tiger]

It would be such a bold proposal and unlike anything the current NRL would actually do, but given it seems a few of us have thought of it in here, I would love to know whether the idea has even been raised in NRL Hq or if they have had any preliminary looks and the costs and benefits

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Funnily though this is idea that could push away from mascots that are male oriented Like Roosters, and CowBoys

You mentioned this but also had Adelaide Rams as one of your team names... which is a male sheep...

I don’t disagree with you though that it can be a way of slight divergence. Canberra already have something like this set up with their female team/branding being the Valkyrie.