Expansion won't happen anytime soon

[Pippen94]

No it isn’t. To avg over 15k you need at least a 20k stadium and that’s before we talk about the major upgrade to corporate facilities it needs.

Brisbane will have 3 clubs; North & South clubs will draw 20k each

 

[The Great Dane]

Playing game in north enhances connection to local area & emphasizes point of difference.
Dolphins oval already upgraded to 11k - keep up

Playing in 'the north' is a red herring. It'll be token at best, and won't result in a large active fanbase for the club.

They are just talking it up because they know their appeal in Brisbane isn't big enough to support the team, that they can't realistically play in a ground with a capacity of 11.5k, which means that they'll have to play all their home games 30-40 minutes away from their target audience, and think that by roping in the Sunshine Coast that it'll make their bid look better.

The tactic might even work for them. I mean claiming that all the supporters in Brisbane that are disenfranchised with the Broncos would jump on board the GC worked for the Titans, when everybody with a brain knew that was a fantasy as well.

 

[Pippen94]

Playing in 'the north' is a red herring. It'll be token at best, and won't result in a large active fanbase for the club.

They are just talking it up because they know their appeal in Brisbane isn't big enough to support the team, that they can't realistically play in a ground with a capacity of 11.5k, which means that they'll have to play all their home games 30-40 minutes away from their target audience, and think that by roping in the Sunshine Coast that it'll make their bid look better.

The tactic might even work for them. I mean claiming that all the supporters in Brisbane that are disenfranchised with the Broncos would jump on board the GC worked for the Titans, when everybody with a brain knew that was a fantasy as well.

Same rubbish head of bombers pedals about why somebody in Ipswich would support dolphins or vice versa. Northern catchment big enough for team a long with south.
Geography is only point of difference which works

 

[The Great Dane]

Same rubbish head of bombers pedals about why somebody in Ipswich would support dolphins or vice versa. Northern catchment big enough for team a long with south.

If he's saying you won't see a large active support base for the Dolphins (or the Bomber for that matter) in Ipswich then he is right.

Define big enough.

Geography is only point of difference which works

There're plenty of points of difference that work; big old club vs little new kid on the block, class, corporate vs community, etc, etc, if you want to get spicy things like ethnicity and sectarian conflict has worked in other sports (namely soccer and I wouldn't suggest going down those routes).

But again you don't need a tiny suburban club to have that geographical point of difference. Take the WSW, they represent a whole region of the city (or rather did until recently), not just a suburb like Redcliffe. That's the sort of geographical difference you want.

 

[MugaB]

Same rubbish head of bombers pedals about why somebody in Ipswich would support dolphins or vice versa. Northern catchment big enough for team a long with south.
Geography is only point of difference which works

I don't see a difference between north qld cowboys representing not only Townsville but all the towns around it, people travel for hours all around townsville to go to their games, sme can be said for a dolphins or western corridor bid, playing out of Suncorp, what seems to be the issue, is where the general league club is based, and who they represent, rather where are the bulk of the home games played.
I keep referring back to South sydney as they are about 20mins west of their catchment from redfern to homebush.
But there are different reasons are for that.
And again need to forget where the bid is originated from or where home office is, its where they are playing, western corridor won't be home at ipswich nor will dolphin be in redcliffe, both bids are home at suncorp. And both bids will not be successful in their inaugural year on field, as it will take years before they become competitive versus the other 16 clubs that have rosters/staff/junior development etc already in motion.
The only team that were successful somewhat from their first year were storm and warriors, most other teams when they started ran last or 2nd last.
Cowboys in 95 were spooners, warriors came 9th and missed the finals due to a breach in subs earlier in the season, storm came 3rd, a remarkable effort by both teams, when history shows nearly every inagural expansion team fails to get even close to competitive that very first season

 

[The Great Dane]

I don't see a difference between north qld cowboys representing not only Townsville but all the towns around it, people travel for hours all around townsville to go to their games, sme can be said for a dolphins or western corridor bid, playing out of Suncorp, what seems to be the issue, is where the general league club is based, and who they represent, rather where are the bulk of the home games played.
I keep referring back to South sydney as they are about 20mins west of their catchment from redfern to homebush.
But there are different reasons are for that.
And again need to forget where the bid is originated from or where home office is, its where they are playing, western corridor won't be home at ipswich nor will dolphin be in redcliffe, both bids are home at suncorp. And both bids will not be successful in their inaugural year on field, as it will take years before they become competitive versus the other 16 clubs that have rosters/staff/junior development etc already in motion.
The only team that were successful somewhat from their first year were storm and warriors, most other teams when they started ran last or 2nd last.
Cowboys in 95 were spooners, warriors came 9th and missed the finals due to a breach in subs earlier in the season, storm came 3rd, a remarkable effort by both teams, when history shows nearly every inagural expansion team fails to get even close to competitive that very first season

The Cowboys actually represent all of North Queensland, not just Townsville, where as the Dolphins and Jets don't really represent anything outside of Redcliffe and Ipswich respectively. They can say they do on paper, but in reality they don't, and just because they say they will doesn't actually mean that they will, or that they'll be accepted by locals even if they really try to.

The Cowboys also went into the ARL as a new, and more importantly neutral, entity. The people from outside of Townsville didn't have a reason to dislike them from the get go. That's not the case with the Dolphins and Jets whom carry a history with them, a history of people from areas they are relying on support from of supporting other teams that hate their guts.

I mean this is simple stuff, I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand, especially people from Sydney.
I mean just look at how 95% of fans from Sydney responded to every SL proposal ever, why would you expect people from other areas, whom are effectively being the presented the same idea, to react any differently!?

 

[Perth Red]

Back to the thread topic, I see the commentary is now pushing out inclusion of a new club until 2023 at the earliest.

 

[Perth Red]

Hatcher’s warning
Queensland Rugby League chair Bruce Hatcher has never been a fan of expansion, something he has made clear more than once on these very pages.

Hatcher watches NRL clubs lose money hand over fist – remarkably, many clubs will make a profit this year thanks to extra funds from the NRL and the savage cuts that were made across the game in the wake of COVID-19 – and asks where the money will come from to fund a 17th franchise.

The concern for Hatcher and others at the coalface are that grassroots footy will suffer financially to prop up a new team in southeast Queensland.

“What I can’t come to grips with – in my role you have to be objective not emotional – tell me when 12 clubs … can still lose $36m and more,” Hatcher said.

“I don’t believe grassroots can continuously be attacked to fund that elite level of the game. I would be asking the question of the nine Sydney clubs in that catchment area to justify their existence.

“If it was my money, I would be going and trying to acquire an existing club and if necessary, relocate it.

“If you brush that aside and say they are too strong, I am saying a commercial solution is to look at a club that is struggling financially and give them an opportunity to survive long term.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...s/news-story/d4c78e55d79c2617e9183ec30f21337b





Hatcher has plenty on his plate at the moment, not least the appointment of the next State of Origin coach. Former Roosters chief executive Brian Canavan is among those making a call on the next Queensland coach.

 

[mongoose]

So he's not against a 2nd Brisbane team, just 17 teams? fair enough I guess...

 

[Perth Red]

So he's not against a 2nd Brisbane team, just 17 teams? fair enough I guess...

he’s always advocated for Sydney relocation so as not to drain more of the nrl’s funding on extra clubs away from grassroots funding. It’s a bit of a straw man argument tbh, two new clubs should generate more revenue from extra content and greater appeal to sponsors.

 

[The Great Dane]

he’s always advocated for Sydney relocation so as not to drain more of the nrl’s funding on extra clubs away from grassroots funding. It’s a bit of a straw man argument tbh, two new clubs should generate more revenue from extra content and greater appeal to sponsors.

He's kind of right though.

If expansion didn't generate enough revenue to support it's self then the money to support it would undoubtedly come from the grassroots. But of course if that was the case nobody in their right mind would expand, so in reality he has nothing to worry about.

 

[MugaB]

Expand or DIE!!!!!!!
- Spoken by Peter Beattie, ARLC Canberra

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

he’s always advocated for Sydney relocation so as not to drain more of the nrl’s funding on extra clubs away from grassroots funding. It’s a bit of a straw man argument tbh, two new clubs should generate more revenue from extra content and greater appeal to sponsors.

If 3 Sydney clubs were to relocate, then the game would probably be stronger. The remaining 6 clubs in Sydney would find it easier to attract commercial partners and talent.

The question then is where do you put the other 3 teams?

Tigers and Sharks could work in SEQ. So something like Brisbane Tigers, owned by Easts Tigers and based in Coorparoo and Sunshine Coast Sharks, with links to the Dolphins and Falcons at Queensland Cup level. Both clubs could have a 50:50 stake in the club. Tigers could affiliate themselves with Souths and Wynnum, not having Easts in the Queensland Cup.

Donkeys can go with Norths and Ipswich.

Dragons to Perth. Large English population there that can relate to "St George" and the "Dragon". West Coast Dragons. Look to England for playing talent.

 

[Perth Red]

No team is EVER going to relocate, never going to happen. Pointless discussing it as it isn’t going to happen!

 

[Perth Red]

Expand or DIE!!!!!!!
- Spoken by Peter Beattie, ARLC Canberra

Its a shame he never actually did anything to back up his words!

 

[flippikat]

No team is EVER going to relocate, never going to happen. Pointless discussing it as it isn’t going to happen!

I'm inclined to agree. If there ever was an opportunity to relocate a team or two, it was in the first 5-10 years after the Superleague war (as an alternative to joint ventures).

There's now no appetite from the NRL or clubs for it - and in fact every indication is quite the opposite - that the NRL will back the clubs staying "as is, where is" at any cost.

It would take a seismic shift in the NRL administration's attitude to consider (let alone encourage) relocation.. and I suspect any such change will be scorned so heavily by the Sydney-centric media fanning the flames of outrage, that those responsible for that policy shift will be gone by lunchtime.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No team is EVER going to relocate, never going to happen. Pointless discussing it as it isn’t going to happen!

What are the odds of ARLC adding new teams to Adelaide and Perth?

My estimate is 0%, going by their track record and public statements.

Peter V'landys said there will be no expansion into "rusted-on AFL states".

Media analyst Colin Smith said NRL should forget about Perth and focus on Brisbane 2, NZ 2, Brisbane 3, Melbourne 2 and possibly PNG, in that exact order.

V'landys runs the game and Colin Smith has worked with the ARLC on broadcast deals and is an important businessman who is respected by the ARLC.

If that's their stance, and it is, why should I believe the ARLC will do the opposite of what they say?

My belief is it's more likely a Sydney team will relocate to Adelaide or Perth.

Some former players active in the , like Gordon Tallis, advocate relocation of Sydney teams.

 

[Vee]

Its a shame he never actually did anything to back up his words!

We did tell you that when he joined the commission.

 

[Perth Red]

We did tell you that when he joined the commission.

actually I take it back, he commanded Greenberg to undertake a thorough review of expansion options and develop a strategy. Shame Vlandys put it in the bin because he likes Brisbane2.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/12/13/australian-rugby-league-commission-announce-footprint-study/

GRTD there’s a hell of a lot more chance the nrl will expand to 18 teams with perth (if Brisbane2 does ever happen) added then any hope of a Sydney team relocation, vlandys will be gone in 2-3 years, only a matter of time till he psses the clubs or states off and they pressure him out, who knows what the commission in a few years time will decide is the future of the game. We have no long term strategic plan so it remains at the whim of the people of the time.

 

[mongoose]

I remember Greenberg on 100% footy at the start of 2019 suggesting some Sydney clubs will be relocated. Although this was after the off season from hell so he might have just been trying to divert some of the attention away from those incidents.