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F.O Andrew Webster

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Stating the obvious, but we have lost a lot of close games.

Round 1- Sharks by 4
Round 2- Storm by 4
Round 8- Titans by 3
Round 9- Knights by 6
Round 18- Bulldogs by 1
Round 20- Raiders by 2
Round 23- Dolphins by 2

Add to that a couple of hidings that are unexplainable, apart from just saying that they didn’t turn up on the day. The Titans by 60 and I’d add to that the Eels- even though we only lost by 10, they were both games we should have won if we turned up.

so yeah, I guess it just shows that we really weren’t far off and I reckon Webster needs to own that gap
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Stating the obvious, but we have lost a lot of close games.

Round 1- Sharks by 4
Round 2- Storm by 4
Round 8- Titans by 3
Round 9- Knights by 6
Round 18- Bulldogs by 1
Round 20- Raiders by 2
Round 23- Dolphins by 2

Add to that a couple of hidings that are unexplainable, apart from just saying that they didn’t turn up on the day. The Titans by 60 and I’d add to that the Eels- even though we only lost by 10, they were both games we should have won if we turned up.

so yeah, I guess it just shows that we really weren’t far off and I reckon Webster needs to own that gap

if we win half those games, the season is different
 
Messages
794
It’d be interesting to know how many of those close losses could reasonably be attributed to injuries.

Not as an excuse making exercise, but more to see whether the S&C program needs an overhaul.

The number of soft tissue injuries this season has been nuts for all clubs, but feels like we had a particularly bad run.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Lots of good analysis in this thread in and on this page you can read from @Penrose Warrior @Manu Vatuvei and @Izz a collection of ideas that basically cover all of the big picture stuff.

The way i read it between those three posters differing points of view is that the probable truth is they are all correct by degree.
To be Frank none of us have a freaking clue what is wrong with the team in any given season because none of have a grasp or an insight into the pre game week.

Often times there are things happening at training and off field that see people like Webster forced to pick unpopular selections which often are not the guys the fans see performing best in games.

No better example of this currently exists than AFB. A guy who we only see on the field who we see for eighty minutes and looks like the perfect Warrior.

Were it not for the leaks from the club and or the forced stand down ban for him this season, none of us would have had a freaking clue that AFB is a massive problem off field and demanding the coach not pick him.

Imagine if we knew nothing about AFB this year and Webster dropped him. Webster would have been crucified in here (hey he gets nailed to a cross all the time anyway thanks to sack the coach threads) but imagine that scenario if you will with some fairness.

This also applies to Johnson being played injured. I have followed that situation closely for the last two seasons and I think Webster gets unfair press there too. We are now seeing that this idea fans have where he should not play injured means his career ends mid last season, because he has been carrying the injuries all that time.

So the argument against Webster about playing an injured SJ is a nonsense from my Pov because if you apply that standard he does not finish last season where he was carrying an injury which meant he stopped kicking goals for the chunk of that year. Be fair guys and note that he is a one year contract player precisely because of chronic injury and age and that this makes not picking him injured a complete nonsense in a team that desperately needs a kicker for field position. All those things considered carefully would see any NRL coach try to carry him through as many games as possible for that long kick which starts our defensive sets off a fast Rocco Berry kick chase and pin deep in their half, this is like the foundation of a Clubs whole season we are talking about....like Ivans reliance on a kick to Manu to make the finals.

Extrapolate that to Tohu Harris who was the Anchor of the Warriors last year as in the Simon Mannering role, despite being played injured all season. For which Webster was pilloried this year when Harris could no longer adequately play through the chronic Knee.

If Webster followed the fan critics we would have had no Tohu and SJ last year and I would wager that would mean no finals appearance.

Reynolds and other critical older players run around injured in many seasons, legends of the games have done it as long as League has been played.

I know I bang on about the SJ stuff but the reason he keeps being picked is that without him kicking long our entire winning game plan goes out the window, can you really blame Webster for trying to nurse him through that and keep him out there for his boot?

I cannot.

But the main reason I made this argument is that when it comes to week to week selections of the Warriors I used to berate coaches for not going for my obvious picks based off the games I am watching. Over time I realized that I have no idea what happened after the player i like put in a great game, same dude could well have smoked his own pipe and been late to training or been a negative influence in camp, or had some mental health situation related to instant media attention and maybe not sleeping, maybe stressing about doing it again the following week.

The other mind cluck of coaching is that you have this plan which is dependent on multiple moving parts in a really complex organism that is a team structure, and you have this nebullus idea that is called the dressing room and this job security problem that is the board of your club, the owner, CEO and others which basically measure performance not by metrics like improvements in specific areas and they have zero idea about building blocks for long term success, rather they dangle the hang mans noose over you for short term and immediate ladder results, which is stupid. We have just watched the Olympics, a format that is well used to selecting people who they know would be doing well to make the top ten their first Olympics because unlike the NRL system they do not sack people who do not medal after four years prep rather they think in eight and twelve year cycles.

The Olympics pick people knowing they will fail if finals are the measure, nations, all nations, all their sports scientists and experts, all their sports funding, choose to expose young hopefuls knowing they will get nowhere near the medals, because they understand that is how you end up with medalists.

NRL fans are the opposite they demand coaches are sacked regularly off one year of not making top eight. One thing Olympic countries would never do is pressure or criticize a coach that had a top four finish with an athlete, that coach would be locked in as a medal winner in waiting.

Webster last year turned around the Titanic, he introduced hardiness, a defensive mentality, a fighting spirit to this team.

That alone should have been enough to sell fans on his worth, ok so we are the uber fans the jaded long term experts in inverted commas who are above the one swallow does not make a summer group. But what Webster did sold out stadiums and set records.

The dude demands respect as a coach on that alone.

While we quibble about names on a team sheet the Warriors are experiencing a revolution. To my way of thinking despite Webster making mistakes here and there the Warrior world should be all in on this guy because he has changed filled Mt Smart with his coaching, for mine the only metric that predicts success for an NRL club.
 
Last edited:

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,760
Lots of good analysis in this thread in and on this page you can read from @Penrose Warrior @Manu Vatuvei and @Izz a collection of ideas that basically cover all of the big picture stuff.

The way i read it between those three posters differing points of view is that the probable truth is they are all correct by degree.
To be Frank none of us have a freaking clue what is wrong with the team in any given season because none of have a grasp or an insight into the pre game week.

Often times there are things happening at training and off field that see people like Webster forced to pick unpopular selections which often are not the guys the fans see performing best in games.

No better example of this currently exists than AFB. A guy who we only see on the field who we see for eighty minutes and looks like the perfect Warrior.

Were it not for the leaks from the club and or the forced stand down ban for him this season, none of us would have had a freaking clue that AFB is a massive problem off field and demanding the coach not pick him.

Imagine if we knew nothing about AFB this year and Webster dropped him. Webster would have been crucified in here (hey he gets nailed to a cross all the time anyway thanks to sack the coach threads) but imagine that scenario if you will with some fairness.

This also applies to Johnson being played injured. I have followed that situation closely for the last two seasons and I think Webster gets unfair press there too. We are now seeing that this idea fans have where he should not play injured means his career ends mid last season, because he has been carrying the injuries all that time.

So the argument against Webster about playing an injured SJ is a nonsense from my Pov because if you apply that standard he does not finish last season where he was carrying an injury which meant he stopped kicking goals for the chunk of that year. Be fair guys and note that he is a one year contract player precisely because of chronic injury and age and that this makes not picking him injured a complete nonsense in a team that desperately needs a kicker for field position. All those things considered carefully would see any NRL coach try to carry him through as many games as possible for that long kick which starts our defensive sets off a fast Rocco Berry kick chase and pin deep in their half, this is like the foundation of a Clubs whole season we are talking about....like Ivans reliance on a kick to Manu to make the finals.

Extrapolate that to Tohu Harris who was the Anchor of the Warriors last year as in the Simon Mannering role, despite being played injured all season. For which Webster was pilloried this year when Harris could no longer adequately play through the chronic Knee.

If Webster followed the fan critics we would have had no Tohu and SJ last year and I would wager that would mean no finals appearance.

Reynolds and other critical older players run around injured in many seasons, legends of the games have done it as long as League has been played.

I know I bang on about the SJ stuff but the reason he keeps being picked is that without him kicking long our entire winning game plan goes out the window, can you really blame Webster for trying to nurse him through that and keep him out there for his boot?

I cannot.

But the main reason I made this argument is that when it comes to week to week selections of the Warriors I used to berate coaches for not going for my obvious picks based off the games I am watching. Over time I realized that I have no idea what happened after the player i like put in a great game, same dude could well have smoked his own pipe and been late to training or been a negative influence in camp, or had some mental health situation related to instant media attention and maybe not sleeping, maybe stressing about doing it again the following week.

The other mind cluck of coaching is that you have this plan which is dependent on multiple moving parts in a really complex organism that is a team structure, and you have this nebullus idea that is called the dressing room and this job security problem that is the board of your club, the owner, CEO and others which basically measure performance not by metrics like improvements in specific areas and they have zero idea about building blocks for long term success, rather they dangle the hang mans noose over you for short term and immediate ladder results, which is stupid. We have just watched the Olympics, a format that is well used to selecting people who they know would be doing well to make the top ten their first Olympics because unlike the NRL system they do not sack people who do not medal after four years prep rather they think in eight and twelve year cycles.

The Olympics pick people knowing they will fail if finals are the measure, nations, all nations, all their sports scientists and experts, all their sports funding, choose to expose young hopefuls knowing they will get nowhere near the medals, because they understand that is how you end up with medalists.

NRL fans are the opposite they demand coaches are sacked regularly off one year of not making top eight. One thing Olympic countries would never do is pressure or criticize a coach that had a top four finish with an athlete, that coach would be locked in as a medal winner in waiting.

Webster last year turned around the Titanic, he introduced hardiness, a defensive mentality, a fighting spirit to this team.

That alone should have been enough to sell fans on his worth, ok so we are the uber fans the jaded long term experts in inverted commas who are above the one swallow does not make a summer group. But what Webster did sold out stadiums and set records.

The dude demands respect as a coach on that alone.

While we quibble about names on a team sheet the Warriors are experiencing a revolution. To my way of thinking despite Webster making mistakes here and there the Warrior world should be all in on this guy because he has changed filled Mt Smart with his coaching, for mine the only metric that predicts success for an NRL club.
Good post, as usual. However I am still undecided.
Coach of the year one year and 14th the next?
That isn't all down to injuries.
The squad isn't as fit this year nor as switched on.
If he is to progress he needs to find answers. What would Wayne do?
Next year he has to do better or he will drop back to the pack..
 
Messages
10,074
Good post, as usual. However I am still undecided.
Coach of the year one year and 14th the next?
That isn't all down to injuries.
The squad isn't as fit this year nor as switched on.
If he is to progress he needs to find answers. What would Wayne do?
Next year he has to do better or he will drop back to the pack..
Ciraldo has done the same in reverse

In reality it is probably one of the toughest and tightest sporting competitions in the world, it is very small margins between a successful year and not

Probably half a dozen sides that can tell the story about close losses defining their season and ‘if only’
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,462
I know I bang on about the SJ stuff but the reason he keeps being picked is that without him kicking long our entire winning game plan goes out the window, can you really blame Webster for trying to nurse him through that and keep him out there for his boot?
I'm interested in this. Our entire winning game plan goes out the window? What about the one we used to win against the Panthers, Phins and Cows, plus the other two games we won without SJ?
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
I'm interested in this. Our entire winning game plan goes out the window? What about the one we used to win against the Panthers, Phins and Cows, plus the other two games we won without SJ?
I prefer plan B to last years plan now that teams seem to have adjusted to zero in on key players and shut us down this year.

But you can understand why after having a year of success training these guys to play one way, that throwing it away is a problem too. The ability to change players entire game plan relies on your players being capable of change at short notice, that tends to be something the star spine players in the comp can do, especially teams with ball playing fullbacks, a decent eyes up halfback and a Six that can feed the ball well.

We lack in those areas, we have one dimensional running types and changing game plans with them is not easy or in the case of our incumbent fb maybe not even possible. Not blaming CNK, just saying, changing it up needs people that can actually play a different way.

Now as you pointed out we did change our method, and it looked on the whole pretty good, but we got there through forced injuries and it was kinda a revelation that probably even Webster was not expecting. It would not surprise me to learn that even TMM surprised himself.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,462
Yeah, it's easy to say 'lost x amount by under 6' but there isn't a game in there that we shouldn't have won if we were better. The Storm one in round 2 being the closest to 'ah f**k, that's unlucky' but we still should have defended that better.
 
Messages
17,768
Yeah, it's easy to say 'lost x amount by under 6' but there isn't a game in there that we shouldn't have won if we were better. The Storm one in round 2 being the closest to 'ah f**k, that's unlucky' but we still should have defended that better.
Don't forget the bunker overturning Montoya try that went up a try with no clear evidence either way, so should have stayed on field call.
 

Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,968
Let's not be surprised if Webby suddenly wants out.
I would be surprised. He seems to like living here and i think he would want to make amends for this season.
Then again, money talks and I dont know if the Perth team have a coach lined up yet. And im sure if we get a South Island team, they will be interested in Webster.
 
Messages
794
I would be surprised. He seems to like living here and i think he would want to make amends for this season.
Then again, money talks and I dont know if the Perth team have a coach lined up yet. And im sure if we get a South Island team, they will be interested in Webster.
Apparently Brad Arthur is being lined up for Perth. But yea, Webby doesnt strike me as someone who'd leave after one bad season. Just my read and I could be wrong, but I sense he's in it long term and wont bail unless he's pushed.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,462
Apparently Brad Arthur is being lined up for Perth. But yea, Webby doesnt strike me as someone who'd leave after one bad season. Just my read and I could be wrong, but I sense he's in it long term and wont bail unless he's pushed.
Yeah, I don't see this in Webby.

And I believe in that guy. He's a learner, he'll get better. I just think he needs better support. I don't know Agar, but I just feel like Webster could do with a really high quality assistant who knows the NRL like the back of his hand. Stacey should, but I really don't know if he's the guy.
 

Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,968
Yeah, I don't see this in Webby.

And I believe in that guy. He's a learner, he'll get better. I just think he needs better support. I don't know Agar, but I just feel like Webster could do with a really high quality assistant who knows the NRL like the back of his hand. Stacey should, but I really don't know if he's the guy.
Agar and Slade Griffin both off contract at the end of this season. So we will see what happens. Im not sure Stacey is a coach. Happy for him to prove me wrong.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,462
Agar and Slade Griffin both off contract at the end of this season. So we will see what happens. Im not sure Stacey is a coach. Happy for him to prove me wrong.
Yeah, me too on the last bit. I just don't see it, although how would I know, given I haven't been to a training session since 2011
 

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