F1 2018

Discussion in 'Motor Sports' started by Life's Good, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. madunit

    madunit Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    62,052
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    Fair point mate. I'd argue though that Ricciardo and Verstappen are better drivers and have a car with a vastly better chassis than Renault.

    Renault will be better next year due to the improvement that Ricciardo brings, while Red Bull could well become a team like Merc and Ferrari, where they genuinely have a 1 and 2 driver (despite stating otherwise).

    With their reliability issues, if Verstappen misses 5-6 races next year, they could very well struggle.
     
  2. Parra

    Parra Referee

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    20,465
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Yep. Bring it on.

    Alonso to Indy will get everyone watching as well. It's like 1993 all over again.
     
    madunit likes this.
  3. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    21,363
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Look at the budgets and staff numbers. They are certainly on the way up. Red Bull just use them as an excuse
     
  4. Storm13

    Storm13 Juniors

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    199
    Ricciardo with pole, but can't get excited as Verstappen will overtake him within the first few corners.
     
  5. Parra

    Parra Referee

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    20,465
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Glad for him that he is leaving that team. For a team with their winning potential and recent history they have a shit culture. Best Horner could come up with was that Dan's pole came out of nowhere.
     
    Dodgy likes this.
  6. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    21,363
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    I think it will turn out to be a masterstroke leaving. Everytime he goes well you can sense the disappointment that it wasn't Max
     
    jargan83 and Parra like this.
  7. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    21,363
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Vettel being behind Max means those 2 will be fighting it out. Hamilton behind Ricciardo won't be as agressive
     
  8. Storm13

    Storm13 Juniors

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    199
    Didn't see the start but apparently it took just one corner.
     
  9. Jimbo

    Jimbo Immortal

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    37,358
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Another race, another car failure...
     
  10. Parra

    Parra Referee

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    20,465
    Likes Received:
    1,150

    Yep. f**king Red Bull. Dan didn't even sound angry after this one.
     
    Jimbo likes this.
  11. Jimbo

    Jimbo Immortal

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    37,358
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    He's already looking forward to next year. He's just looking to beat Max a couple more times in the meantime
     
  12. Life's Good

    Life's Good Coach

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    12,878
    Likes Received:
    24,595
    What do you all make of Hamilton winning his 5th title?

    For mine he is now in the in the very top echelon of drivers - Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Prost, Senna, Schumacher(probably others as well - Ascari, Brabham, Lauda spring to mind)
    Greatest ever? I think it’s like a lot of sports where it’s hard to compare across era’s (equipment, competitors, rules etc)but one thing about Hamilton this year is he has entered the realm of drivers winning a title without the very best car across a whole season - Prost in 86, Senna in 91, Shumacher in 95 spring to mind.
     
    billygilmore and jargan83 like this.
  13. Jimbo

    Jimbo Immortal

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    37,358
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Five world titles is certainly nothing to be sneezed at, although like Vettel he has had very competitive machinery for the vast majority of his career

    Schumacher was able to turn Benetton and Ferrari into championship winning teams. Prost won four championships and was a close second in four others. Would Hamilton have won three races in the 1995 Ferrari?

    Top echelon? Probably. GOAT? No.
     
    jargan83 and Storm13 like this.
  14. Storm13

    Storm13 Juniors

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    199
    All Hamilton has had to do is beat Rosberg and let Vettel beat himself. Great driver but like a lot in F1, right time and right opportunity. I've only been following F1 since 2000, and even though Ferrari were hard to beat I felt the field was more competitive. I long for the Trulli train to return ;)
     
  15. madunit

    madunit Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    62,052
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    I think past champions had bigger challenges to overcome than Hamilton has, which makes me err when it comes to the discussion as to whether Hamilton is the GOAT.
     
  16. Dodgy

    Dodgy Juniors

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    218
    Highly likely.

    In their careers, Hamilton has driven 2 seasons in a car that finished 3rd in the WCC, and had 7 wins. Schumacher has driven cars that finished 3rd in the WCC 3 times for 3 wins. 1 of which was that cheapo 2005 US GP.
     
  17. Storm13

    Storm13 Juniors

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    199
    Hamilton GOAT

    McLaren had a car that was the fastest but the most unreliable car in those years, so does not paint the picture you are after.

    Most likely could win in the 95 Ferrari but in the end that's just an opinion.
     
  18. Dodgy

    Dodgy Juniors

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    218
    What picture am I trying to paint? The Ferrari in 1995 finished 3rd in the wcc. Hamilton and Schumacher have driven cars that finished 3rd in the wcc twice and 3 times respectively. Hamilton actually had won 6 races and Schumacher 3, including the USGP which was not a genuine race.

    It's one thing to want to diminish Hamilton, as I do as well on other forums. But it's completely ignorant to not recognise his quality. It's also ignorant to embellish Schumacher. Especially when both drivers have are having similar careers.

    I think you're referring to 2012 when claiming McLaren had the fastest car but unreliable? That's horseshit. The RB was always the fastest car from 2010-13, but Vettel didn't drive as well as in 11, and Webber was out of his depth except for 1 year. If it was more reliable, it'd be slower, therefore offering more opportunities to take advantage of others misfortune and mistakes (Like Alonso did that year)

    The 1995 Ferrari is a John Barnard car. John Barnard doesn't make shit cars. The engine, tyres, drivers, team management/personnel/budget might not be up to it. But the actual chassis and body work is the highest quality. But people want to make out like it's comparable to Alan Jones' Lola. It's ridiculous, but a long standing myth perpetuated for reason I don't know?

    Before diminishing the car, you might want to look at the two potatoes that were using it for a Sunday drive? I'm looking at the 95 results on wiki. If you couldn't move the results of the Williams drivers, then I reckon Hamilton would've won at least two races, beaten Coulthard for 3rd, and threatened Hill for 2nd in the 95 championship in a Ferrari.

    The Spanish GP typically shows an outsider which is the best car. Along with a Schumacher biased Benetton, both Ferrari's qualified ahead of both Williams',
     
    Life's Good likes this.
  19. Jimbo

    Jimbo Immortal

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    37,358
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    My apologies, I meant to refer to the 1996 Ferrari which was widely acknowledged as being a complete dog. Schumacher did things with it that I rather doubt Hamilton or anyone else could have
     
  20. Dodgy

    Dodgy Juniors

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    218
    Don't listen to that crap that was said. The 96 Ferrari was also a John Barnard car, and it finished 2nd in the wcc, despite Irvine being neglected that year.

    We didn't drive the cars,and everything they said was to take the pressure of them and heap it onto Wiliiams' which the dumbarse journos lapped it up.

    Take a look at Benetton, that took on the Alesi/Berger potato value combo. They produced the same results as they did for the last two years at Ferrari.

    John Barnard doesn't make shit cars. The 96 Ferrari might not have been an all time great, but the updated version (which he oversaw) led to the 97 car, which was clearly terrific despite whatever horseshit that was coming from Ferrari and the media. Eddie Irvine nearly won in Argentina.

    He didn't design Schumacher's wdc winning Benettons, but they were a development of the 92 car, which was all his. They were less affected by the rule changes for 94, which were designed to stop Williams.

    If the 96 Ferrari was so bad. Then when he moved to Arrows, why did he more or less copy the car for Damon Hill in 97? There's a lot of similarities between the 96 Ferrari and 97 Arrows.

    I get triggered every time the topic gets brought up all over the web..

    That, and how much respect Ross Brawn gets. That guy is overrated. Designing such pieces of shit like a couple of Footwork/Arrows, and Alan Jones last Lola.
     

Share This Page