F1 WDC thrown wide open

[Jimbo]

Where did I ever say I was an Andrew Johns fan?
Like Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997, Suzuka 1990 was a race for the title. If you want to go on defending Schumacher fair enough, but I leave you with this story, as told by Mika Hakkinen in a 1998 interview with F1 Racing...

In 1990 Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher were both driving Formula 3. They were competing in the prestigious Macau F3 race and it was in its' dying stages. Schumacher was leading, Hakkinen was second and gaining on Schumacher. Coming out of a corner, Schumacher made a mistake which enabled Hakkinen to get up alongside him on the run to the next corner. However, going into the corner Schumacher turned straight into the apex, cutting across Hakkinen causing him to spin and retire. After the race, Schumacher came up and said "I'm really sorry, I didn't see you in my mirrors." Hakkinen accepted his apology. Then a few days later, Hakkinen was watching a German sports channel in which Schumacher was being interviewed. Talking about the race, Schumacher said he'd seen Hakkinen coming up alongside him so he cut across Hakkinen to block him. Hakkinen said he never forgot that.

I have never said Schumacher wasn't an aggressive racer

My question is, why should Schumacher's remarkable achievements be tainted by his aggressive driving, when Senna's lesser achievements are not tainted by incidents which were worse?

 

[Knightmare]

:LOL: Senna's lesser achievements? Like I said in an earlier post, it's kind of hard to break more records when you're dead. My other point is that when you look at Senna's career, Suzuka 1990 was the only real dubious point on his career. Schumacher has dozens of them. There's a difference between being aggressive and blatantly driving like you're in a tank. Jacques Villeneuve is an aggressive driver, but I can't remember him being involved in anything too dubious.

 

[Jimbo]

Well if you don't want to take my word for it, ask Keke Rosberg...

"I can remember that we all went to the race directors to complain about the young generation of drivers - especially Senna. We said 'yeah sure, they're very talented, but they behave like hooligans."

"If Ayrton wants to talk about first corners, I can remember a first corner, when he can clean over the top of me, at the Nurburgring in 1984. The following year he ran into the back of me in Adelaide. And those were just the incidents he had with me! He had them with several people - he was all over the place in those days, and he shouldn't forget it."

"Without any doubt, Ayrton was by far the most criticised driver of my era"

 

[Knightmare]

Senna suffered brake fade at Adelaide in 1985 and retired. It was clearly no problem for Rosberg, who won the inagural AGP. Also remember that Rosberg retired in 1986, up to that point there was a certain protocol among the drivers, Senna was the face of the new Formula 1- of drivers- drivers who weren't intimidated by the veterans and drove hard and drove aggressively. Nigel Mansell was like this too, to me it's no surprise that he and Senna had a number of altercations over the years, as they were both uncompromising and never backed off. Somebody like Prost (like a typical Frenchman) wasn't much of a fighter and preferred to play politics. However, drivers like Senna and Mansell never had to rely on team-mates or illegal/ suspicious cars to achieve what they did, and that's what has tainted Schumacher's reputation for many many people. Without doubt Schumacher is the best tactical driver of all time, but as for the best racing driver- I can't agree with that.

 

[Jimbo]

Senna suffered brake fade at Adelaide in 1985 and retired. It was clearly no problem for Rosberg, who won the inagural AGP. Also remember that Rosberg retired in 1986, up to that point there was a certain protocol among the drivers, Senna was the face of the new Formula 1- of drivers- drivers who weren't intimidated by the veterans and drove hard and drove aggressively. Nigel Mansell was like this too, to me it's no surprise that he and Senna had a number of altercations over the years, as they were both uncompromising and never backed off. Somebody like Prost (like a typical Frenchman) wasn't much of a fighter and preferred to play politics. However, drivers like Senna and Mansell never had to rely on team-mates or illegal/ suspicious cars to achieve what they did, and that's what has tainted Schumacher's reputation for many many people.

Many people think that Lance Armstrong is a drug cheat. Doesn't necessarily mean that he is...

Without doubt Schumacher is the best tactical driver of all time, but as for the best racing driver- I can't agree with that.

I would regard Prost to be at least Schumacher's equal with regard to race strategy. They didn't call him the Professor for nothing

Senna probably had the edge over Prost in terms of outright speed over a balls-out lap, (which is why he had so many pole positions), however his lack of strategical ability meant he wasn't able to convert pole positions into wins. With twice as many poles as Prost, he should have at least equalled his win tally

Schumacher is both blindingly fast and renowned as the best tactical driver of his generation. Neither Prost nor Senna is close to his win rate of one per 2.76 races. That's how you win 89 races and seven world championships

It's all about opinions though

 

[Knightmare]

Senna competed in 161 Grand Prix and has been dead since 1994. Schumacher has 245 races to his name and is still going. For the majority of time after Senna's death, Schumacher has had precious little in the way of quality competition. I know you highly regard the wins per starts ratio, but this doesn't take into account the reliability of the car, which is out of the drivers' hands. Incidentally, the Ferraris have had awesome reliability for about the last 8 years, which has definately advanced Schumacher's cause. On another note, was good to see Massa get his first win the other night.