Financial fragility of the game

[Quicksilver]

If anything Id say the constant close ups in our Tv coverage dumbs the sport down for the viewer, when you watch it live, especially from the ends you get a much greater appreciation of how teams are offensively and defensively shifting around. Plus you get to yell offside at the ref more

Yeah I agree. That's why it's nice to be at the game, even if you do watch most of it on the big screen.

 

[Perth Red]

It is staggering to see the sort of revenue the afl clubs bring in from fan activity compared to the nrl clubs. In some cases it is over $30million a year more from memberships, merch and gate takings! Most nrl clubs dont even make that from all activities when you take out the nrl grant. It is by far the biggest revenue growth opportunity for clubs.
In ‘18 the Eagles brought in nearly $38million from fan based activity!

 

[The Great Dane]

It being ‘middle of the road’ probably has more to do with their stadium capacity being 67,500 than any other forces keeping numbers away.

Considering that the NFL's league average for last year was 66,151 Cleveland's numbers are about right on par I'd say.

Compare their history to that of comparable NRL (or AFL, Super, A-league, etc) clubs and think where'd they'd be if they were copying the standard practices of local clubs, they'd be struggling to get two men and a dog through the gate!

As an aside, considering all the disadvantages that they have compared to some of the NFL clubs, the fact that those AFL clubs' attendance wouldn't look out of place in the NFL is no mean feat.

 

[The Great Dane]

It's the most important thing. If your team isn't doing everything it can to win a premiership then fans will not bother. What's the point in following a team that just wants to be a farm for the good of Rugby League?

Not to say that these clubs aren't trying to win, because every club is, but there're plenty of examples of clubs that exist more for the spectacle than the teams success on the pitch.

I mean people are going to a lot of European soccer matches to experience the spectacle more than anything else.

 

[mongoose]

Yeh same, when I first arrived 20 years ago Reds had been cut and obvious RL was dead here, love my sport so tried to get into following the Eagles. Went to around half a dozen games at Subiaco with new friends, great atmosphere and slick presentation but the constant substitutions and general chasing the ball around like it was kids soccer put me right off. Havent been to one since, now get my live fix down at North Beach watching the local RL comp. Still say its a myth that AFL is better live than NRL though given you cant see half the action from the cheap seats at an AFL game and due to size of their stadiums you do feel a looooong way from the action. NRL you are right on top of it, especially at somewhere like Bankwest or the Perth East stand.

I find AFL boring at batshit but I think one thing going for it is that it's almost a 3 hour game (at least it felt that long), but you feel like you get your money's worth. An NRL game is less than 2 hours.

 

[Perth Red]

I find AFL boring at batshit but I think one thing going for it is that it's almost a 3 hour game (at least it felt that long), but you feel like you get your money's worth. An NRL game is less than 2 hours.

yeh that is true, I like double headers for this reason. The one we had in perth was brilliant, was out for about 5 hours, had bands on before, during break, and afterwards and felt like a great day out for a good price. If you just turn up watch a game for 100minutes and go home, that $150 plus your spending to take the family out seems not great value for money,

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

If anything Id say the constant close ups in our Tv coverage dumbs the sport down for the viewer, when you watch it live, especially from the ends you get a much greater appreciation of how teams are offensively and defensively shifting around. Plus you get to yell offside at the ref more

C9 is the f*cking worst at this.

They go close on the player getting tackled (fine, whatever). But they dont go to the wide shot until after the dummyhalf has picked the ball up and passed it out of shot.

This means that we have no idea what the offencive or defencive lines look like and anything that happens after the PTB just looks like it has come out of nowhere.

(Its almost as bad as the commentators going on about how shit the game is and how fans shouldnt watch it) I genuinely start to get claustraphobic watching the game because it is just so frustrating watching the shitty camera work cut out the most important parts....

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

yeh that is true, I like double headers for this reason. The one we had in perth was brilliant, was out for about 5 hours, had bands on before, during break, and afterwards and felt like a great day out for a good price. If you just turn up watch a game for 100minutes and go home, that $150 plus your spending to take the family out seems not great value for money,

Yeh, NRL is a LONG way off Sydney clubs centralising, but there is definitely a middle ground.

If clubs are lining up against low-drawing oppositions, they could easily be lining up another Sydney club with another low-drawing opponent to play a double-header.

Turn Rabbits-Titans and Bulldogs-Knights into Sydneys biggest event that weekend......

 

[big hit!]

It is staggering to see the sort of revenue the afl clubs bring in from fan activity compared to the nrl clubs. In some cases it is over $30million a year more from memberships, merch and gate takings! Most nrl clubs dont even make that from all activities when you take out the nrl grant. It is by far the biggest revenue growth opportunity for clubs.
In ‘18 the Eagles brought in nearly $38million from fan based activity!

problem is rugby league clubs in Sydney have never relied on organic revenue generation to fund operations. it's largely been grants from leagues clubs.

point being football clubs have always expected hand outs.

 

[taipan]

problem is rugby league clubs in Sydney have never relied on organic revenue generation to fund operations. it's largely been grants from leagues clubs.

point being football clubs have always expected hand outs.

That's going to have to change.Leagues clubs will not be the money making machines via pokies like they were in the past.
The clubs getting huge handouts have been the Eels,Panthers,Bulldogs and Roosters.The Eels at least have WSS to assist with revenue, possibly the Dogs there and the Roosters at a new SFS.
Regardless all clubs will have to get off the backsides and sell their home games far better than they have, oh and improve their facilities.

 

[big hit!]

That's going to have to change.Leagues clubs will not be the money making machines via pokies like they were in the past.
The clubs getting huge handouts have been the Eels,Panthers,Bulldogs and Roosters.The Eels at least have WSS to assist with revenue, possibly the Dogs there and the Roosters at a new SFS.
Regardless all clubs will have to get off the backsides and sell their home games far better than they have, oh and improve their facilities.

i don't disagree. just making the point that the leagues club model is what has funded football clubs, and still does for some big ones today.

re your final sentence about clubs selling their home games better - this is harder and harder each season due to the weekly schedule focused on TV value.

current (ex COVID)
8pm thurs
6pm fri
8pm fri
3pm sat
5:30pm sat
7:30pm sat
2:30pm sun
4:15pm sun

not many of those time-slots maximise crowd-attendance in winter. only the bolded KO during daylight.

 

[The Great Dane]

i don't disagree. just making the point that the leagues club model is what has funded football clubs, and still does for some big ones today.

re your final sentence about clubs selling their home games better - this is harder and harder each season due to the weekly schedule focused on TV value.

current (ex COVID)
8pm thurs
6pm fri
8pm fri
3pm sat
5:30pm sat
7:30pm sat
2:30pm sun
4:15pm sun

not many of those time-slots maximise crowd-attendance in winter. only the bolded KO during daylight.

It's true that some time slots are easier to sell than others, however this is just making excuses for not even trying.

The only time slots that should be tough sells there are Thursday and 6pm Friday, because they interfere with peoples work. There's nothing wrong with the rest of them, and the only reason that the clubs struggle to get people into the gate at those times is because, frankly, they don't really try.

If instead of pissing millions of dollars down the drain on frivolous luxuries in the football department, the clubs actually invested a good chunk of change each year into marketing, advertising, community engagement, and game day experience they'd get way more people through the gate.

I mean there's a reason why studios often spend a similar amount of money on marketing their movies as they do making them, it's because even a terrible movie can make stupid amounts of money if it's marketed well.

 

[taipan]

i don't disagree. just making the point that the leagues club model is what has funded football clubs, and still does for some big ones today.

re your final sentence about clubs selling their home games better - this is harder and harder each season due to the weekly schedule focused on TV value.

current (ex COVID)
8pm thurs
6pm fri
8pm fri
3pm sat
5:30pm sat
7:30pm sat
2:30pm sun
4:15pm sun

not many of those time-slots maximise crowd-attendance in winter. only the bolded KO during daylight.

No question Leagues clubs were there to foster rugby league via first grade.

Agree scheduling is ,was ,and continues to be the issue ,if you want to get families along. 8pm Thursday, 6pm Friday are the biggest crowd stoppers.

 

[Perth Red]

No question Leagues clubs were there to foster rugby league via first grade.

Agree scheduling is ,was ,and continues to be the issue ,if you want to get families along. 8pm Thursday, 6pm Friday are the biggest crowd stoppers.

most clubs only have 2-3 games in those time slots a season. That’s 75% plus of games in non crap time slots,

 

[The Great Dane]

No question Leagues clubs were there to foster rugby league via first grade.

Agree scheduling is ,was ,and continues to be the issue ,if you want to get families along. 8pm Thursday, 6pm Friday are the biggest crowd stoppers.

Here's a revolutionary idea; don't make families your target audience for Thursday and 6pm Friday matches.

Make those matches an event that appeals to younger people that are looking to go out, get pissed, and have a good time.

 

[Dave's mate]

Here's a revolutionary idea; don't make families your target audience for Thursday and 6pm Friday matches.

Make those matches an event that appeals to younger people that are looking to go out, get pissed, and have a good time.

Can't have fun in NSW unfortunately

 

[The Great Dane]

Can't have fun in NSW unfortunately

Don't be afraid to bend some rules and piss some people off. Controversy breeds publicity, and all publicity is good publicity.

 

[Diesel]

Here's a revolutionary idea; don't make families your target audience for Thursday and 6pm Friday matches.

Make those matches an event that appeals to younger people that are looking to go out, get pissed, and have a good time.

There is very little use for 6pm on Friday or 8pm on Thursdays to be permanent fixtures. It could be used as a special feature during the early rounds or late rounds only.

 

[flippikat]

Here's a revolutionary idea; don't make families your target audience for Thursday and 6pm Friday matches.

Make those matches an event that appeals to younger people that are looking to go out, get pissed, and have a good time.

Nek Minit: Disco Demolition Night.

 

[Perth Red]

Here's a revolutionary idea; don't make families your target audience for Thursday and 6pm Friday matches.

Make those matches an event that appeals to younger people that are looking to go out, get pissed, and have a good time.

said it before make every Friday night 6pm and 8pm a double header at the new allianz. Bands, beer and food village outside get the 20-40 year olds out and at the games. I think Smith could see this in his push to get clubs to move to a semi central stadium policy. Then every Sunday I’d have a double header at bankwest (then if it got really popular) anz, much more family focussed with loads of stuff for the kids, meet the players, cheap family deals, food village outside with kids playground area etc.
Nrl to manage these events, clubs get paid whatever they would normally make on game day plus 20% for giving up home advantage. If out of Sydney teams wanted to take a home game or two and play them at these events days then they could. Give it a try for three years and see if it works to build a fan attendance culture in Sydney. Crowds haven’t changed for two decades, we haven’t got much to lose!

Probably All too hard I guess, easier for clubs to plead poor and nrl to keep dishing out the games money.