Financial fragility of the game

[taipan]

Not necessarily. For example/hypothetical, if we relocated the Tigers to Perth and made them the Western Tigers the deal could be that they have a couple of games at Leichhart each year and their Sydney membership base gets a couple of games at Bank West each year as well.

The TV ratings for that relocated team in Perth ,would be far less than in Sydney, thereby downgrading the value of a TV deal.The assumption that Sydney people, will for a relocated all jump on board if they play a couple in Sydney ,is overly optimistic.The angst would be enormous.There are people now who hate the merging of Wests and Tigers.
You create a vacuum in the area under the Tigers control.
Perth needs a home grown team.

 

[T-Boon]

The TV ratings for that relocated team in Perth ,would be far less than in Sydney, thereby downgrading the value of a TV deal.The assumption that Sydney people, will for a relocated all jump on board if they play a couple in Sydney ,is overly optimistic.The angst would be enormous.There are people now who hate the merging of Wests and Tigers.
You create a vacuum in the area under the Tigers control.
Perth needs a home grown team.

The beauty of relocating West Tigers is you don't even have to change the name. You could just take 6 home games to Perth and keep 6 in Sydney, give it 3 years and tell the fans to vote with their feet. They will go with which ever looks the most promising.

 

[taipan]

The beauty of relocating West Tigers is you don't even have to change the name. You could just take 6 home games to Perth and keep 6 in Sydney, give it 3 years and tell the fans to vote with their feet. They will go with which ever looks the most promising.

Doesn't solve the issues at its place of origin.

 

[The Great Dane]

It’s a very valid excuse. Successful Leagues with billions of $$$ in rights value schedule the bulk of their games during the day. You’re likely to watch your team play at the same time every week.

Make access to the game fan-friendly and you’ve done half the job

Every major league around the world has night games that are well attended, and for every example of a league that has their teams playing in the same time-slot each week there is one that doesn't.

Also the sort of scheduling that you are asking for is never going to happen, it probably shouldn't happen (I don't think that it's fair that the Broncos are always on Friday night as it is), and even if it did happen I doubt that it'd have a big impact on attendance numbers anyway because it'd have no effect on the real issues; the clubs putting the bare minimum into game day and not investing anything into marketing.

 

[big hit!]

Every major league around the world has night games that are well attended, and for every example of a league that has their teams playing in the same time-slot each week there is one that doesn't.

Also the sort of scheduling that you are asking for is never going to happen, it probably shouldn't happen (I don't think that it's fair that the Broncos are always on Friday night as it is), and even if it did happen I doubt that it'd have a big impact on attendance numbers anyway because it'd have no effect on the real issues; the clubs putting the bare minimum into game day and not investing anything into marketing.

teams play in the same time slot, because half the games are in one time slot. most games are during the day.

you're right. it's never going to happen, because the NRL sold its arse to the broadcasters and we're all in the belief that going back to day time and sunday footy is a backward step because we're all used to consuming footy on TV.

tell me, where is the additional value in broadcast rights going to come from? they already have 8 stand alone time slots, they already have games on thursday night. Finals after week 1 are friday/saturday night. GF is night. state of Origin has been on Wednesday practically since inception. the broadcasters have got just about everything they want. apart from expansion, how do the NRL increase value? It's practically all exhausted now. now, it's all going to be rule changes to turn the game into touch footy.

Attending the NRL is going to stagnate and die, not because the clubs aren't making an effort, but because the NRL have done everything the broadcasters want for a buck and changed the way we consume the sport.

 

[Perth Red]

In the NRL most clubs revenue is made up 40-50% TV money. In the AFL its more like 20-30%, some much lower. In some ways I hope the TV bubble does burst as it will force the NRL and clubs to operate differently and engage the fanbase that is out there and actively work to generate new fans of the game. Likes clubs with pokie dens, we are fat and lazy suckling off the teat of Ch9 and News Ltd.

Smith could see this, hence why he set a target of 20k crowds and invested a significant amount in centralizing the membership growth strategy.

 

[The Great Dane]

teams play in the same time slot, because half the games are in one time slot. most games are during the day.

you're right. it's never going to happen, because the NRL sold its arse to the broadcasters and we're all in the belief that going back to day time and sunday footy is a backward step because we're all used to consuming footy on TV.

tell me, where is the additional value in broadcast rights going to come from? they already have 8 stand alone time slots, they already have games on thursday night. Finals after week 1 are friday/saturday night. GF is night. state of Origin has been on Wednesday practically since inception. the broadcasters have got just about everything they want. apart from expansion, how do the NRL increase value? It's practically all exhausted now. now, it's all going to be rule changes to turn the game into touch footy.

I don't think that it matters were extra value to broadcasters will come from, because traditional broadcast media is dying and being replaced by streaming.

Nobody really knows what will be of most value to streaming platforms when it comes to sport yet, so it's hard to predict exactly where we'll get extra value from, if we get any extra value at all.

I would suggest that having the capability to produce your own content will be a big advantage in the future though.

But really this is a total aside from the discussion.

Attending the NRL is going to stagnate and die, not because the clubs aren't making an effort, but because the NRL have done everything the broadcasters want for a buck and changed the way we consume the sport.

The thing is that the clubs really haven't been making an effort... I mean have you ever been to another major sporting event around the world?

For the most part any of the ones I've attended (even 20+ years ago) shit all over what is being presented in Australia outside of major events (finals, GFs, SoO). Obviously a lot of organisations overseas have a lot more money to work with than your average NRL club, but that isn't an excuse for the NRL clubs not investing almost anything into the game day product for decades now (especially over the last decade).

No matter how hard you try you can't blame the broadcasters for that, because it's not the broadcasters that are making the decision not to invest in technology that makes game day better, or how much money goes into the marketing budget, or whether or not to hire actual professional entertainers, etc, etc, it's the clubs making those decisions.

 

[The Great Dane]

In the NRL most clubs revenue is made up 40-50% TV money. In the AFL its more like 20-30%, some much lower. In some ways I hope the TV bubble does burst as it will force the NRL and clubs to operate differently and engage the fanbase that is out there and actively work to generate new fans of the game. Likes clubs with pokie dens, we are fat and lazy suckling off the teat of Ch9 and News Ltd.

Smith could see this, hence why he set a target of 20k crowds and invested a significant amount in centralizing the membership growth strategy.

It's f**king crazy that it needed to be centralised at all.

I mean we're talking about extremely basic shit that is just considered par for the course for most sports and entertainment businesses across the world.

 

[Perth Red]

It's f**king crazy that it needed to be centralised at all.

I mean we're talking about extremely basic shit that is just considered par for the course for most sports and entertainment businesses across the world.

Problem is when clubs have a lean year they cut their staff and still see things like Membership as non critical business. Ask a Sharks fan of their experience in membership renewal or sign up since the Sharks had to cut 50% of office staff to stay afloat.
Its a bit like the argument that NRL spends too much money, most of what was considered wastage is in fact revenue generating spending.
There is also some savings in having a centralised function like Memberships. Its no coincidence that since the NRL gave up membership responsibility to clubs, membership growth has stalled after years of consistent increases.

 

[Perth Red]

Some facts about why suburban grounds are not the future for nrl on Sydney

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...y/news-story/423c7a0b33f33adbaecde6e2dac9b5b4

 

[taipan]

In the NRL most clubs revenue is made up 40-50% TV money. In the AFL its more like 20-30%, some much lower. In some ways I hope the TV bubble does burst as it will force the NRL and clubs to operate differently and engage the fanbase that is out there and actively work to generate new fans of the game. Likes clubs with pokie dens, we are fat and lazy suckling off the teat of Ch9 and News Ltd.

Smith could see this, hence why he set a target of 20k crowds and invested a significant amount in centralizing the membership growth strategy.

A target of 20K which had b... all chance of getting. Any rl followers with a long term following of the game, could have told him a little about the Sydney fan psyche, the effect of scheduling and the reality of Sydney transport infrastructure from the burbs and most importantly the infrastructure of many outer Sydney clubs .

If he had won the 9 deal plus Foxtel ,they would have had a lot more control of the game and the scheduling, making increases in Sydney crowds less likely.Blockbusters in prime time on a weeknight are going to get people to stay at home ,where the fridge is a stone's throw away.

Regardless of what CEO has been ,is in power, when you depend so much on that area of revenue, it's natural they will dictate and get their way more often.

 

[taipan]

Some facts about why suburban grounds are not the future for nrl on Sydney

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...y/news-story/423c7a0b33f33adbaecde6e2dac9b5b4

Hardly a scoop.Of course these grounds look great on a Sunday sunny afternoon with a blockbuster(hello Gould) which is as rare as hens' teeth.And people love it when that is on .They don't when it's p*ssing down rain with little cover.Nor going on a Thursday night, with little time to get home and go with family ,when they can watch it live.

The SFS is a stadium which was going to be the be all.I remember the early days and the bigs crowds.Then the numbers drifted off, because there was SFA cover for many people in high cost and other seating.The toilet facilities for women ,were disgraceful and inadequate.

I attended one of the SOOs there with a couple of mates, middle section a few rows back on the Western side and got drenched .Sneakers full of water.Driving home like a drowned rat ,was a lot of fun.
Whoever designed that building ,hello Mr Cox(I believe),obviously knew little about spectator sports.The new one better have the cover.


No author named ,agenda?
No mention of the fact, these suburban grounds will never get regular big crowds with current facilities in the new century .Using Leichhardt is one of the worst examples when citing facilities.People are not going to sit on hills and get their balls whatever frozen or expose themselves to pouring rain.There has to be an incentive to get there, comfort is a big incentive for a start.

Manly ,Penrith,Cronulla,Dragons,Campbelltown grounds all fit into the need for upgrade category.
And that's why Smith's (a non rl background)target of 20k average ,was whistling in the wind.He had zero idea of these clubs with old facilities further impacted by Tv control of scheduling. Living in the inner city area I understand ,doesn't give you an appreciation of how people live on the outskirts ,or far away from the centre.

The only thing I agree, if suburban grounds remain antiques, then these NRL clubs are in big trouble.Because you'll never grow the crowds.

 

[Perth Red]

Hardly a scoop.Of course these grounds look great on a Sunday sunny afternoon with a blockbuster(hello Gould) which is as rare as hens' teeth.And people love it when that is on .They don't when it's p*ssing down rain with little cover.Nor going on a Thursday night, with little time to get home and go with family ,when they can watch it live.

The SFS is a stadium which was going to be the be all.I remember the early days and the bigs crowds.Then the numbers drifted off, because there was SFA cover for many people in high cost and other seating.The toilet facilities for women ,were disgraceful and inadequate.

I attended one of the SOOs there with a couple of mates, middle section a few rows back on the Western side and got drenched .Sneakers full of water.Driving home like a drowned rat ,was a lot of fun.
Whoever designed that building ,hello Mr Cox(I believe),obviously knew little about spectator sports.The new one better have the cover.


No author named ,agenda?
No mention of the fact, these suburban grounds will never get regular big crowds with current facilities in the new century .Using Leichhardt is one of the worst examples when citing facilities.People are not going to sit on hills and get their balls whatever frozen or expose themselves to pouring rain.There has to be an incentive to get there, comfort is a big incentive for a start.

Manly ,Penrith,Cronulla,Dragons,Campbelltown grounds all fit into the need for upgrade category.
And that's why Smith's (a non rl background)target of 20k average ,was whistling in the wind.He had zero idea of these clubs with old facilities further impacted by Tv control of scheduling. Living in the inner city area I understand ,doesn't give you an appreciation of how people live on the outskirts ,or far away from the centre.

The only thing I agree, if suburban grounds remain antiques, then these NRL clubs are in big trouble.Because you'll never grow the crowds.

youVe made the argument for abandoning suburban grounds very well lol
Reality is the 6 Sydney suburban grounds are not going to get the $100-200million each they need to get them up to what the fans want.

 

[Cactus]

Reality is the 6 Sydney suburban grounds are not going to get the $100-200million each they need to get them up to what the fans want.

They would if the ANZ money was redirected to them instead.

 

[taipan]

youVe made the argument for abandoning suburban grounds very well lol
Reality is the 6 Sydney suburban grounds are not going to get the $100-200million each they need to get them up to what the fans want.

Have I ? If you believe that ,then you are really out of the landscape, when the point about tribalism has been tried to sink into your closed mind for yonks, without success.Tribalism doesn't translate to removal or relocation full stop.

You appear to know as much about Sydney clubs as David Koch does about Chinese table tennis.

Your'e citing those guesstimate figures based on what other full builds have cost, when they would be much less and not necessary full rebuilds.Also 6 grounds is maximum and could be well reduced to less than that ie Win,Shark Park, Brookvale , Penrith, and Campbelltown(possibly) although a long shot because of their A League team.In the case of WIN I doubt they would ever be allowed to build on the seaside, for environmental reasons. The Sharks I doubt their hill would be allowed to have a stand.

 

[Perth Red]

They would if the ANZ money was redirected to them instead.

True and that would be the best outcome for NRL in Sydney if it was but I very much doubt the NSW govt will backflip on it.

Have I ? .

Yep, you basically highlighted why the modern day fan isnt going to attend games at suburban grounds in large numbers (no undercover seating, grass hills, poor toilets and food/drink facilities etc).
A reality evidenced by the crowd sizes at respective stadiums in Sydney.
So you want clubs to stay at grounds fans dont want to go to in large numbers, but cant be upgraded? Sounds good way to get out of financial mess clubs are in!

Those figures arent based on new stadiums, they are based on what it cost to do some upgrades to Perth Stadium. $125mill basically bought one new large main stand and an uncovered end stand with facilities and a few bells and whistles like two decent tv screens. Most of the grounds you have mentioned need at least that to realistically hope to avg just 5k more than they are now, some much more.