Former Panthers in the NRL

[herbert henry1908]

Yep.that is him. I am guessing if it happens Yeo will be centre

Yuck. Yeo in the centres is awful.

 

[Dave's mate]

Yuck. Yeo in the centres is awful.

Yeah he's far too big these days

 

[herbert henry1908]

With the little room our centres seem to get, I tend to agree, you're better off having someone with power then footwork.

That didn’t work for Yeo when he played centre this year. He showed nothing in attack.

 

[betcats]

You’re simultaneously arguing that Naden can improve his defence, whilst also ignoring what Blake is capable of in attack. Those two things run counter to each other.

The difference is we know what Blake is capable of in attack, we don’t know if Naden is capable of improving his defence.

I am not ignoring what Blake can do in attack, I’ve posted his stats for God’s sake, I’ve spoken about his better speed and footwork, I am not ignoring anything. And I haven’t even argued Naden can improve his defence, I said he had to build combos and has more room for improvement then Blake, which would seem fair considering he is a rookie who wasn’t even an nrl contract to start the year vs a guy in his 4th or 5th year of the nrl.

Your argument as to why Naden is a downgrade is limited to who is a better defender, you are the one ignoring things not me.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I am not ignoring what Blake can do in attack, I’ve posted his stats for God’s sake, I’ve spoken about his better speed and footwork, I am not ignoring anything. And I haven’t even argued Naden can improve his defence, I said he had to build combos and has more room for improvement then Blake, which would seem fair considering he is a rookie who wasn’t even an nrl contract to start the year vs a guy in his 4th or 5th year of the nrl.

Your argument as to why Naden is a downgrade is limited to who is a better defender, you are the one ignoring things not me.

You focused in on his stats from this year like that’s a definitive argument that Naden is better in attack.

You also did imply Naden can improve his defence by pointing towards Blake being a poor defender when he came into FG.

Naden was found for be technically deficient at centre, maybe he can improve, but maybe he can’t. We know that’s not the case for Blake.

Defence is a vital part of centre play, because you have difficult decision making as to which way to move with space either side. You have to be good at reading the attack. Naden simply isn’t good at it. He looks very much like a winger that’s been shoehorned into centre.

 

[martielang]

That didn’t work for Yeo when he played centre this year. He showed nothing in attack.

That was a mid game decision though. Give him an off-season there where he hopefully improves his lateral movement & gets a tad lighter & I think it could work.

This is all assuming we're signing an edge forward better then him.

 

[betcats]

You focused in on his stats from this year like that’s a definitive argument that Naden is better in attack.

You also did imply Naden can improve his defence by pointing towards Blake being a poor defender when he came into FG.

Naden was found for be technically deficient at centre, maybe he can improve, but maybe he can’t. We know that’s not the case for Blake.

Defence is a vital part of centre play, because you have difficult decision making as to which way to move with space either side. You have to be good at reading the attack. Naden simply isn’t good at it. He looks very much like a winger that’s been shoehorned into centre.

How is what happened last season more relevant than what happened this season? God you are full of it sometimes. You entire argument is based on defence and you accuse me of ignoring things.

You have ignored the huge gap in experience, the huge gap in pay, the fact that Naden came into this side as an injury exemption from outside the top 30, the fact that Naden isn't even a pure centre before he came into FG and said it all comes down to the one area you know waqa has it over Naden, and then you accuse me of ignoring things cause I didn't go back to 2018 when we had a different coach and Naden wasn't even in the league? Seriously are you kidding yourself Herbert?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Defence is far more important than its given credit for. 6 of the last 10 premiers were the best defensive teams. 2 of the other 4 were the second best defensive teams.

You can get away with some bad defenders, but in a critical position like centre it’s difficult.

 

[Fangs]

Shaun Kenny Naden? Or is it Brent Kenny Dowall?

He has to play wing in 2020. You get the best of his kick chasing, and you also get him finishing and not passing. Plus kick returns, a fullback in the under 20s.

Sure he still has to make defensive decisions but at least we maximise his attacking ability. And I'll back him to improve as he looks like he has the smarts to play first grade. He will figure it out.

Blake wasn't a good winger, I think Naden definitely can be.

 

[herbert henry1908]

How is what happened last season more relevant than what happened this season? God you are full of it sometimes. You entire argument is based on defence and you accuse me of ignoring things.

You have ignored the huge gap in experience, the huge gap in pay, the fact that Naden came into this side as an injury exemption from outside the top 30, the fact that Naden isn't even a pure centre before he came into FG and said it all comes down to the one area you know waqa has it over Naden, and then you accuse me of ignoring things cause I didn't go back to 2018 when we had a different coach and Naden wasn't even in the league? Seriously are you kidding yourself Herbert?

Im not saying it’s more relevant, I’m simply saying it is relevant.

Defence is hugely important for the centre position, so if a attack is largely similar, I’d favour the stronger defender.

Im not ignoring things like experience, I initially posted this as a response to those people who thought Naden was a good *immediate* swap for Blake. Recency bias annoys me, Panthers fans have a thing for the new & shiny.

Naden in the long run might be a good swap for Blake, but right now it hasn’t proven to be the case, despite initial suggestions it was.

 

[betcats]

Im not saying it’s more relevant, I’m simply saying it is relevant.

Defence is hugely important for the centre position, so if a attack is largely similar, I’d favour the stronger defender.

Im not ignoring things like experience, I initially posted this as a response to those people who thought Naden was a good *immediate* swap for Blake. Recency bias annoys me, Panthers fans have a thing for the new & shiny.

Naden in the long run might be a good swap for Blake, but right now it hasn’t proven to be the case, despite initial suggestions it was.

Imo it’s been a good swap. I really don’t think we win more games with Blake still here and we save money.

 

[herbert henry1908]

That was a mid game decision though. Give him an off-season there where he hopefully improves his lateral movement & gets a tad lighter & I think it could work.

This is all assuming we're signing an edge forward better then him.

He could also play lock, that was where he was apparently training at the start of this season.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Shaun Kenny Naden? Or is it Brent Kenny Dowall?

He has to play wing in 2020. You get the best of his kick chasing, and you also get him finishing and not passing. Plus kick returns, a fullback in the under 20s.

Sure he still has to make defensive decisions but at least we maximise his attacking ability. And I'll back him to improve as he looks like he has the smarts to play first grade. He will figure it out.

Blake wasn't a good winger, I think Naden definitely can be.

In a way Naden could be a defensive improvement over Mansour on the wing. Because of his ability under the high ball, that’s good at both ends of the field.

 

[Panther Mick]

Another thing we need to consider with Blake in the whole upgrade/downgrade debate. If he stayed could Ivan have gotten the best out of him?
Whatever happen behind closed doors in the off season Blake certainly struggled to adapt under Ivan's style early on. Switching sides and moving him away from Kikau didn't help. Along with another another injury.
I think in Ivan's second stint here he wants/needs quick results and he may not be interested in players that need a copious amount of work.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Another thing we need to consider with Blake in the whole upgrade/downgrade debate. If he stayed could Ivan have gotten the best out of him?
Whatever happen behind closed doors in the off season Blake certainly struggled to adapt under Ivan's style early on. Switching sides and moving him away from Kikau didn't help. Along with another another injury.
I think in Ivan's second stint here he wants/needs quick results and he may not be interested in players that need a copious amount of work.

You raise some fair points, but I don’t think Blake needed copious amounts of work. If anything it’s a reflection on Cleary’s ability as a coach.

Plus Naden does need copious amounts of work in defence.

 

[franklin2323]

Imo it’s been a good swap. I really don’t think we win more games with Blake still here and we save money.

That is what I was getting at earlier. if we keep Blake we are in the same boat as is Parra

 

[Panther Mick]

You raise some fair points, but I don’t think Blake needed copious amounts of work. If anything it’s a reflection on Cleary’s ability as a coach.

Plus Naden does need copious amounts of work in defence.

I would agree Cleary's ability as a coach is questionable. When fit Blake is an attacking weapon. Ivan is not an attacking coach. Unless Barrett is going to change things up next year to address the attacking shortcomings? I have my doubts Ivan's coaching would have got the best out of Blake.

With regards to Blake needing work, I mean fitness. He has had a few injuries over the years. His time with us this year he appeared to look sluggish before his injury. Did his training needed to be altered? or was he just a tad unlucky with injuries?

One would hope Naden has a big off season to address his shortcomings in defence.

 

[martielang]

That is what I was getting at earlier. if we keep Blake we are in the same boat as is Parra

I actually think we beat Broncos with Blake & then we're in the 8. Naden was badly exposed all night.

Then we go undefeated the rest of the year.

 

[franklin2323]

I actually think we beat Broncos with Blake & then we're in the 8. Naden was badly exposed all night.

Then we go undefeated the rest of the year.

But Blake wouldn't of scored the try Naden did v Warriors... So that cancels that out.

 

[betcats]

That Brisbane game is a stretch, we played very poorly and lost by 12