Fox Soccer

[billy2]

The fact that you repeatedly feel the need to attempt to personally defame me because I am willing to stand up against bullshit and corrupt administration is absolutely pathetic and embarrassing to your cause. The ironic thing is that, unlike the AMNRL administrators, I actually believe that you have the best interests of RL at heart. That makes it all the more disturbing that you seem unable to see through the low-level manipluative and emotive tactics and realise how much damage the AMNRL and their continued actions are causing to the sport.

The only place there is corrupt administration is in your head.
You can call the administration of the AMNRL authoritarian and un democratic. You might even be able to make a case that they are not competent - but calling them corrupt is a pathetic and low thing to do.
Even their worst 'enemies' should always recognise that these guys have put masses of their own time, money and effort into promoting our game in the US, and if any of them have taken a dollar for their services it would be well earnt and probably a fraction of the money they have put in over time.
The hatred directed at the AMNRL is completely over the top. At their worst they are people working hard to spread our game in ways we think are not as effective or 'nice' as they could be.

 

[Evil Homer]

The only place there is corrupt administration is in your head.
You can call the administration of the AMNRL authoritarian and un democratic. You might even be able to make a case that they are not competent - but calling them corrupt is a pathetic and low thing to do.
Even their worst 'enemies' should always recognise that these guys have put masses of their own time, money and effort into promoting our game in the US, and if any of them have taken a dollar for their services it would be well earnt and probably a fraction of the money they have put in over time.
The hatred directed at the AMNRL is completely over the top. At their worst they are people working hard to spread our game in ways we think are not as effective or 'nice' as they could be.

They have every reason to be described as corrupt. Corruption doesn't have to be related to money. The AMNRL have repeatedly shown that they are willing to put the interests of the sport that they are supposed to represent aside for their own personal gain - that gain being the desire for power and status. They have attempted to bribe players with national team selection. That is corrupt.

The thing is that I would be able to overlook their other shortcomings if they weren't deliberately trying to spoil it for people who do appear to have the best interests of RL at heart. We are all aware and fully appreciative of the effort they have put into developing the game over the years, but they seem to be doing their best to undo most of that good work at the moment. There are a lot of badly run organizations in international RL, but none that actively attempt to hold the game back in the way that the AMNRL does. And for that reason, I don't have any hesitation in letting rip. As far as I'm concerned, the AMNRL administrators have demonstrated a lack of integrity that is beyond redemption, to the extent that the game would be better off without them involved. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

[billy2]

They have every reason to be described as corrupt. Corruption doesn't have to be related to money. The AMNRL have repeatedly shown that they are willing to put the interests of the sport that they are supposed to represent aside for their own personal gain - that gain being the desire for power and status. They have attempted to bribe players with national team selection. That is corrupt.

The thing is that I would be able to overlook their other shortcomings if they weren't deliberately trying to spoil it for people who do appear to have the best interests of RL at heart. We are all aware and fully appreciative of the effort they have put into developing the game over the years, but they seem to be doing their best to undo most of that good work at the moment. There are a lot of badly run organizations in international RL, but none that actively attempt to hold the game back in the way that the AMNRL does. And for that reason, I don't have any hesitation in letting rip. As far as I'm concerned, the AMNRL administrators have demonstrated a lack of integrity that is beyond redemption, to the extent that the game would be better off without them involved. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

The game is making bigger strides in America right now than it has at any time in the past.
Both the USARL and the AMNRL are pushing the game forward. To say either is 'hurting' the game is muddle headed and ill spirited.
Your whole argument is that you don't like the way the AMNRL does their business, and you wrap it up in claims that are well overstated.
Neither the USARL nor the AMNRL are going backwards. It would be nice to see them work together, but the bizarre calls that one of them should die and set the code back 5 years is the silliest call in this whole 'argument'.
When they finally start working together it must be in a way that accomodates and encourages all players, teams and competitions. Self destruction is a great League tradition, but those calling for half the code in America to fold should take themselves outside and give themselves an uppercut. No one wins a war - everyone loses.

 

[DaBears]

They have every reason to be described as corrupt. Corruption doesn't have to be related to money. The AMNRL have repeatedly shown that they are willing to put the interests of the sport that they are supposed to represent aside for their own personal gain - that gain being the desire for power and status. They have attempted to bribe players with national team selection. That is corrupt.

The thing is that I would be able to overlook their other shortcomings if they weren't deliberately trying to spoil it for people who do appear to have the best interests of RL at heart. We are all aware and fully appreciative of the effort they have put into developing the game over the years, but they seem to be doing their best to undo most of that good work at the moment. There are a lot of badly run organizations in international RL, but none that actively attempt to hold the game back in the way that the AMNRL does. And for that reason, I don't have any hesitation in letting rip. As far as I'm concerned, the AMNRL administrators have demonstrated a lack of integrity that is beyond redemption, to the extent that the game would be better off without them involved. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

@ E Homer.... Just curious are you involved with league in the USA or have you ever been?

 

[Evil Homer]

The game is making bigger strides in America right now than it has at any time in the past.
Both the USARL and the AMNRL are pushing the game forward. To say either is 'hurting' the game is muddle headed and ill spirited.
Your whole argument is that you don't like the way the AMNRL does their business, and you wrap it up in claims that are well overstated.
Neither the USARL nor the AMNRL are going backwards. It would be nice to see them work together, but the bizarre calls that one of them should die and set the code back 5 years is the silliest call in this whole 'argument'.
When they finally start working together it must be in a way that accomodates and encourages all players, teams and competitions. Self destruction is a great League tradition, but those calling for half the code in America to fold should take themselves outside and give themselves an uppercut. No one wins a war - everyone loses.

The only people who seem to want a 'war' are the AMNRL administrators. They are the only ones who have behaved antagonistically, they are the ones who are deliberately trying to hold back the sport, not me or any other posters on an internet forum. I wouldn't have any problems with two groups operating in different ways if one of them wasn't attempting to damage the other one. At worst I would simply not comment, as I did in the past. This whole thing boils down to the exclusion of USARL players and running of the national team as a mates club. That's the point - it's not two 'warring factions', it's one group who seem to be interested in developing the sport for the right reasons, and another group who seem more interested in point-scoring and chasing personal glory. I understand why you are concerned about 'self destruction', but you need to see the reality which is that, at the moment, the AMNRL are doing more harm than good. The organization doesn't need to fold, I don't want to see them fold, but like I said, it's my opinion that the current administrators have shown that they are clearly in it for themselves, and can no longer be trusted to do the right thing or to put the interests of the game at heart. You seem to think that at some point, the two groups are going to come together again. The only thing stopping this from happening tomorrow is the arrogance of the AMNRL administrators. They were the ones who caused the split in the first place by refusing to behave democratically, they are the ones who continue to refuse to co-operate and prolong the problems, and they are the ones who are actively trying to hurt the other organization, which seemingly does want to do things in the right way and for the right reasons. You cannot deny that there is currently an injustice being committed, and if people adopt your attitude and sit back in the hope that it will work out, then that injustice will continue because the people involved will have no reason to change and years of potential development will be lost. That's why I advocate the AMNRL being removed - I don't mean the clubs or players, I just mean the corrupt administrators.

 

[Reborned]

From what I have heard it was the AMNRL working with Fox and the NRL on this.

I wonder if the NRL just did it and gave the AMNRL some credit for marketing and exposure reasons.

 

[RedVee]

from what i had heard there's going to be a pro league in the u.s. Called nrl-us that's going to start play in 2009.

lol :d

 

[Choo Choo]

From what I have heard it was the AMNRL working with Fox and the NRL on this.

I tried, but I just can't leave this one alone. Mr. Knight, do you have any concrete evidence (emails, etc) to back this up?

If the AMNRL did manage to pull this off, then good on them; but you understand with the history here I have my doubts.

 

[Choo Choo]

That's why I advocate the AMNRL being removed - I don't mean the clubs or players, I just mean the corrupt administrators.

This thread between EH and Billy2 intrigued me so I did a little research. Here are Webster's definitions for the word corruption:

1a : impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle : depravity.
b : decay, decomposition.
c : inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (as bribery).
d : a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct.
2archaic : an agency or influence that corrupts.

So, based on the definition and taking into account both sides of the discussion, I have to side with EH here as his points are supported by the accepted definition of the word that there is corruption when it comes to excluding players by impairment of integrity and a departure from what is pure and correct.

Regardless of what you think of either organization, EVERY American Rugby League player should have the opportunity to represent their country in international competition. One could argue another word here; discrimination which is defined as, "prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment."

 

[DaBears]

I tried, but I just can't leave this one alone. Mr. Knight, do you have any concrete evidence (emails, etc) to back this up?

If the AMNRL did manage to pull this off, then good on them; but you understand with the history here I have my doubts.

What's the history?

I remember in the mid 2000's Nui & co were meeting with Fox & others all the time. I believe Spike TV was the last network that I remember that went further than a meet n greet.
Yes, nothing came from these meeting beyond making connection & planting seeds to revisit in the future....but you cant seriously knock the guys for trying... At least they got a foot in the door.

I personally was with a group of AMNRL folks who met with L Murdoch... it was drinks but he certainly new of our agenda by the end of the night.

It wouldn't matter what evidence surfaced...the haters will continue to hate.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Some of you are still missing the point in all of this. Players are being excluded from the Tomahawks because they play in the USARL. It's great if Niu and the rest with the AMNRL have pulled this Fox Sports thing off. Wonderful, and you can laud them all you like. But, could somebody answer this - Billy2, DaBears, or any others - Why are these players being excluded? Do you agree with their exclusion? What can be done to change this policy?

 

[Bucks County Sharks]

I tried, but I just can't leave this one alone. Mr. Knight, do you have any concrete evidence (emails, etc) to back this up?

I do

Go the Sharks! Can't wait for footy season.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Bucks County Sharks - you have evidence, great. If the AMNRL had a hand in getting Fox Sports to show rugby league, wonderful, congratulations. I'll ask you the same questions as I've asked billy2 and DaBears. Why are USARL players excluded from the Tomahawks? Do you agree with this exclusion? What can be done to change this policy? I await your response.

 

[Bucks County Sharks]

We just play / promote / teach the game of footy. We'll leave the bickering/judgement of who's in the right /wrong for you boys.

Go the sharks!

 

[PacificCoastRL]

We just play / promote / teach the game of footy. We'll leave the bickering/judgement of who's in the right /wrong for you boys.

Go the sharks!

I'm not asking you who is right or wrong. I am asking for answers to some questions. You don't have to answer the second one if you would rather not. I'm assuming you know the answer to the other two, so why can't you share your insight.

 

[Lone Ranger]

We just play / promote / teach the game of footy. We'll leave the bickering/judgement of who's in the right /wrong for you boys.

Go the sharks!

Go the Sharks! You boys are the best. Wonder why you've never won single Championship despite the fact that you are one of the oldest clubs in the USA? You play the same you talk, sitting on the fence wondering when the ball is going to bounce your way. When it doesn't, you talk shit all the while pissing and moaning. You never win big and your losing never cuts deep enough. Until you pricks take a side and I mean "stand for what believe" then go on making the numbers.

You know you are so stop listening to this bullshit, grow the game!

 

[MR KNIGHT]

I would blame the "heads" of the clubs that formed an unsanctioned league for not taking it to the players for a vote. They should have said that by forming a league that is unrecognized there is a danger that you will not be able to play in the World Cup. Do you still want us to do this.

If I was a player in the USARL, I would blame the head of your club.

The NRL deal with David Niu because he is the most credible Rugby League person in the US, they know this, despite what the 8 people on this forum will keep trying to spin.

 

[jack coburn]

Some of you are still missing the point in all of this. Players are being excluded from the Tomahawks because they play in the USARL. It's great if Niu and the rest with the AMNRL have pulled this Fox Sports thing off. Wonderful, and you can laud them all you like. But, could somebody answer this - Billy2, DaBears, or any others - Why are these players being excluded? Do you agree with their exclusion? What can be done to change this policy?

Comming from someone who supported an ARL side during the superleague war, unfortuately i agree that if someone wants to form a breakaway comp from the governing body than they have to accept that they forfiet their right to represent that body in internationals. Superleague players took the ARL to court because they were excluded and lost,It is up to the selectors of the body to pick who they want.
I know alot of people dont agree but i do.

 

[Steve Davy]

I would blame the "heads" of the clubs that formed an unsanctioned league for not taking it to the players for a vote. They should have said that by forming a league that is unrecognized there is a danger that you will not be able to play in the World Cup. Do you still want us to do this.

If I was a player in the USARL, I would blame the head of your club.

The NRL deal with David Niu because he is the most credible Rugby League person in the US, they know this, despite what the 8 people on this forum will keep trying to spin.

As a player in a USARL team, I think that is a load of nonsense. There are several assertions, which are at best opinion and at worst dishonest.

I find some of the more rabid anti-AmNRL posts on this forum far over the top, which is why I do not join in. Most players are not bothered about the politics and hopefully both organisations can prosper.

However, to blame the USARL for the situation would be akin to taking the side of the rugby union authorities when they were trying to stamp out rugby league.

The politics is of little interest to me, but if you took the attitude you describe as a USARL, you would be in a very small minority.

 

[league13]

You have to wonder, why sufficent members of the AMNRL were prepared to break away to form their own league, knowing the conseqences in doing so.You also have to realize, that a lot of long term users of this board became frustrated, in being unable to get any info from the AMNRL website.Obviously the two are linked and I for one wish the USARL all the success they deserve, at least they are open and democratic and that's what's needed to take the game forward.