The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[herbert henry1908]

That is pretty much what looks like happening.

The last change to the SCG Trust lands, the Government snuck it into one of the budget bills in 2016 so the Australian Rugby Union Development Centre could be built on the current Gold Members Car Park.

Herbert Henry,why did the Government sneak the change into one of the budget bills? Simple, because unlike at Federal level, budget bills cannot be amended or blocked by the Legislative Council. That is how sure the Government were of the numbers only just over 12 months ago. That is why I reckon legislative change like you are suggesting would be so problematic.

Can you provide a link to this? I'm honesty surprised the trust needed to amend legislation to build on their own land.

Did they need to do the same for the NRL HQ?


EDIT:

Looks like the legislation was to approve the long term lease of the land & build without development approval.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/disgracef...dings-through-parliament-20151118-gl283e.html

So I don't see the two issues as comparable.

 

[M2D2]

They haven't even tried a swap, and they only need 3 votes. We don't know how members of the govt would react to a swap deal.

Plus the swap doesn't need to occur for a major stadium like previously proposed.
You could do it just for a 35k seat stadium & still have the major stadium at ANZ.

There's clear & common sense benefits to this.

They wont agree to it, Do you not remember how badly they were told to get f**ked when they tried to take the land. They dont trust the SCG trust. Who would?
They wont even put it up for a vote due to the lake being only one of 2 things left from Sydney Commons.
You may thinks its clear and common sense, but not when things around the lake are heritage listed.

 

[herbert henry1908]

They wont agree to it, Do you not remember how badly they were told to get f**ked when they tried to take the land. They dont trust the SCG trust. Who would?
They wont even put it up for a vote due to the lake being only one of 2 things left from Sydney Commons.
You may thinks its clear and common sense, but not when things around the lake are heritage listed.

Ok. Didn't realise the lake was heritage listed.

That obviously makes it more problematic.

Not convinced you couldn't fit a stadium in and retain kippax lake anyway.

But yeah, probably too much for the govt to tackle.

 

[macavity]

So the Knights stadium is finally getting a "big screen" bigger than a home theatre TV.

The old one from Parra stadium.

Not sure why they couldn't keep that one and we get a new one...

 

[Perth Red]

Shame they couldn't have built a stadium in the darling harbour area, that would have been a great spot.

 

[adamkungl]

Shame they couldn't have built a stadium in the darling harbour area, that would have been a great spot.

Sydney needed a second casino. Dont be stupid.

 

[adamkungl]

Shame they couldn't have built a stadium in the darling harbour area, that would have been a great spot.

Also it's a whole 10 mins walk from the nearest station and only serviced by light rail...so...that's out

 

[M2D2]

Ok. Didn't realise the lake was heritage listed.

That obviously makes it more problematic.

Yeah the lake isnt heritage listed(well it might be, but im not sure a lake can be?) but some of the statues/pillars around it are.
But the fact the lake itself is only one of two things left in that area from Old Sydney, even putting it to a vote will be a media shitstorm that they will try and avoid, especially when alot of liberals (including the PM) is opposed to the loss of any lands whatsover.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

In general around the world and even within Australia, they're finding that medium sized stadiums of 50-60k are better money makers than the over-sized mega stadiums. Outside of Origin and the GF does ANZ ever get close to half capacity? Not just in RL terms, I mean for the city of Sydney does ANZ actually bring in all that much money? Tickets to events at ANZ are shockingly overpriced in my experience wouldn't that suggest they don't get enough people in when they need to? Not to mention it's not even a proper football stadium, it's a recycled Olympics stadium, it's not circular or rectangular the entire joint is a bad design. SFS is the better choice in my view, certainly it needs to be the South Sydney homeground and if Easts continue their push in getting more supporters from outside the Eastern Districts/Suburbs they too will have a better shot at filling a refurbished SFS than they will ANZ.

The mistake a lot of people make is to think ANZ wil be abandoned if the SFS gets all of the money...

In reality, ANZ will just stay as it is (crappy design and massive capacity) so ALL major events will go there. The SFS isnt going to overtake Homebush as RLs major location, so the choice is:

-put money into homebush and making it a great stadium
-put money into SFS and have the GF/Origin/major games played in the over-sized, shitty stadium we have now.

SFS should focus on being a great boutique stadium, becuase it will never overtake Homebush for major events

 

[herbert henry1908]

The mistake a lot of people make is to think ANZ wil be abandoned if the SFS gets all of the money...

In reality, ANZ will just stay as it is (crappy design and massive capacity) so ALL major events will go there. The SFS isnt going to overtake Homebush as RLs major location, so the choice is:

-put money into homebush and making it a great stadium
-put money into SFS and have the GF/Origin/major games played in the over-sized, shitty stadium we have now.

Exactly.

A 55k seat stadium at Moore park won't attract any significant events. They'll still all be at ANZ.

There is though a 3rd option.

You could make the major stadium at Moore park & tune ANZ into a 35k stadium to service bulldogs & Souths.

It's unlikely but not impossible.

 

[adamkungl]

70, 50, 30k capacities for the top 3 stadiums - give or take 5k on the larger two, the 3rd being Parramatta already under construction.

 

[M2D2]

You could make the major stadium at Moore park & tune ANZ into a 35k stadium to service bulldogs & Souths.

Moore park, cannot handle being the Main stadium. It doesnt have the infrastructure nor is it a serviceable location for ALL of Sydney.

 

[adamkungl]

Haha here we go again

 

[herbert henry1908]

Moore park, cannot handle being the Main stadium. It doesnt have the infrastructure nor is it a serviceable location for ALL of Sydney.

It could I think if major games weren't scheduled on the same day as something at the SCG.

The precinct has hosted many double headers with the SCG that have pulled more than 60k

In fact this Saturday night it should have around 60k.

Beyond that though, without a major train line going closer to Moore park, I agree.

 

[herbert henry1908]

70, 50, 30k capacities for the top 3 stadiums - give or take 5k on the larger two, the 3rd being Parramatta already under construction.

I don't think we need a mid size at 50k, 40-35k would've better.

It just won't host anything outside of club matches.

 

[M2D2]

It could I think if major games weren't scheduled on the same day as something at the SCG.

The precinct has hosted many double headers with the SCG that have pulled more than 60k

In fact this Saturday night it should have around 60k.

Beyond that though, without a major train line going closer to Moore park, I agree.

The problem is, ANZ has been orginised in such a way that their special event buses are also designed for areas that DONT have train lines. Moving the premier stadium back into the city, which is something that would go against the trends with new stadiums all around the world would force the train and drive approach to getting to the ground which would both clash with each other and make the whole thing a nightmare for organization and security issues and considering 'security' was the BS thing the SCG trust tried to pull to get ALL THE MONEY for it.
Im all for the SFS getting a bit of upgrade. But urban sprawl is not heading east into the Pacific ocean.

 

[Perth Red]

Sfs should be a state of the art new fully roofed 35k club stadium. That's all that is needed in reality.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The problem is, ANZ has been orginised in such a way that their special event buses are also designed for areas that DONT have train lines.

After the NW metro goes in & the parramatta metro the only area I can think of that's not serviced by trains is the northern beaches.

Moving the premier stadium back into the city, which is something that would go against the trends with new stadiums all around the world would force the train and drive approach

Any data on this?

I can think of plenty of stadiums built recently that defy this trend.

Plus people already drive to the bus stops, I live near one on mona bale road.

to getting to the ground which would both clash with each other and make the whole thing a nightmare for organization and security issues and considering 'security' was the BS thing the SCG trust tried to pull to get ALL THE MONEY for it.
Im all for the SFS getting a bit of upgrade. But urban sprawl is not heading east into the Pacific ocean.

I see a major stadium as about more than the city. It for the state & more widely for the country. People travel to major events & to me it makes more sense to have that near a cosmopolitan area that can provide a complete night out.

 

[M2D2]

After the NW metro goes in & the parramatta metro the only area I can think of that's not serviced by trains is the northern beaches.
Any data on this?
I can think of plenty of stadiums built recently that defy this trend.
Plus people already drive to the bus stops, I live near one on mona bale road.
I see a major stadium as about more than the city. It for the state & more widely for the country. People travel to major events & to me it makes more sense to have that near a cosmopolitan area that can provide a complete night out.

1. Go look at the map here. http://www.ite.org/meetings/2009TransOps/TO-ITE-508/TO01/TO01-14.jpg
Alot of that area is not covered by train lines.
2. NFL Stadiums have moved further and further away in the most recent new stadiums for the cowboys, 49'rs. New york cant build build stadiums over 55k. They have to play in New Jersey. Pats cant play in Boston. etc etc etc
3. if that 'made sense' Olympic park would have never existed and the olympics would have been made in the city for that not only meets your criteria for State/Country and even the world. Same thing can be said for the Easter show, which was removed from Moore Park due to what it did to the City when it was held there and placed in Olympic park
But instead they chose to put it out there and build transport specifically for getting out there.
And with current Sydney nightlife killing laws. What night out?

 

[adamkungl]

I see a major stadium as about more than the city. It for the state & more widely for the country. People travel to major events & to me it makes more sense to have that near a cosmopolitan area that can provide a complete night out.

According to some special people I was literally the only one who thought this lol