The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Saint Doc]

We can keep saying it 'has to be Civic' all we like, but the Civic pool site can't fit anything bigger than 25k.

If we build a 25k stadium the NRL still won't allow Canberra to host prelims, it'll be too small to regularly host internationals or events in any of the sports, and the city will out grow it in a decade or two meaning we'll have just built it and we'll be talking about a new one.

It has to be 30k minimum, preferably a little bit larger than that, otherwise it'll be money pissed up against a wall. So if the space can't be found for a 30k stadium in Civic then we'll have to look elsewhere.

Strong disagree.

25k suits the Raiders perfectly fine,
You’re acting like not hosting prelims is some hard and fast rule that could never be broken. I think it’s absurd that NRL banned prelims even at GIO, but if you’re ACT Govt and you’re going to pay $500m for a stadium, you say to NRL “we want your agreement we can host prelims”. No way the NRL knock back that kind of investment for 5k fans every blue moon when Canberra host a prelim.

 

[The Great Dane]

Strong disagree.

25k suits the Raiders perfectly fine,
You’re acting like not hosting prelims is some hard and fast rule that could never be broken. I think it’s absurd that NRL banned prelims even at GIO, but if you’re ACT Govt and you’re going to pay $500m for a stadium, you say to NRL “we want your agreement we can host prelims”. No way the NRL knock back that kind of investment for 5k fans every blue moon when Canberra host a prelim.

Firstly, 25k suits the Raiders now, but in 10-20+ years time once the stadium is built you'd hope that isn't the case otherwise the club would be stagnating or dying.
On top of that with population growth the city will need a larger stadium no matter what happens with the Raiders, and I'd prefer that that larger stadium is the rectangular one because I'd prefer see it as the premier stadium in the city that sees most of the ongoing investment instead of a big oval.

Secondly, if the stadium can't regularly attract big events (and not exclusively sporting events BTW) it'll be a white elephant, and you'll struggle to regularly attract larger events with a 25k seat stadium just as they do now.

Finally, you have way more faith in the NRL than I do if you think that they'd change the rules to allow Canberra to host prelims simply because there's a new stadium. RL never misses an opportunity to shoot it's self in the foot.

 

[Perth Red]

Firstly, 25k suits the Raiders now, but in 10-20+ years time once the stadium is built you'd hope that isn't the case otherwise the club would be stagnating or dying.
On top of that with population growth the city will need a larger stadium no matter what happens with the Raiders, and I'd prefer that that larger stadium is the rectangular one because I'd prefer see it as the premier stadium in the city that sees most of the ongoing investment instead of a big oval.

Secondly, if the stadium can't regularly attract big events (and not exclusively sporting events BTW) it'll be a white elephant, and you'll struggle to regularly attract larger events with a 25k seat stadium just as they do now.

Finally, you have way more faith in the NRL than I do if you think that they'd change the rules to allow Canberra to host prelims simply because there's a new stadium. RL never misses an opportunity to shoot it's self in the foot.

given the raiders avg for the last decade has been half that and the nrl avg hasn’t changed in 20 years I think you are being wildly optimistic that the raiders will regularly fill the place within the next 20 years!
Hbf park has a 21.5k capacity and regularly gets concerts of big bands playing there.
A 25k stadium will be ample for canberra.

 

[The Great Dane]

given the raiders avg for the last decade has been half that and the nrl avg hasn’t changed in 20 years I think you are being wildly optimistic that the raiders will regularly fill the place within the next 20 years!
Hbf park has a 21.5k capacity and regularly gets concerts of big bands playing there.
A 25k stadium will be ample for canberra.

They definitely won't grow if there isn't room to grow, and it isn't outside of the realms of possibility that they could be averaging over 20k in a decade or so time if they, and the NRL, play their cards right. Which means that by the time the stadium is built, they'd already be more or less selling it out.

If you plan for stagnation, that's what you'll achieve.

And none of that changes the fact that the NRL won't allow Canberra to host Prelims with a 25k stadium, and they, and the other rectangular sports, have been reticent to allow Canberra to host larger events regularly and stadium size is part of the reason why.

 

[Perth Red]

They definitely won't grow if there isn't room to grow, and it isn't outside of the realms of possibility that they could be averaging over 20k in a decade or so time if they, and the NRL, play their cards right. Which means that by the time the stadium is built, they'd already be more or less selling it out.

If you plan for stagnation, that's what you'll achieve.

And none of that changes the fact that the NRL won't allow Canberra to host Prelims with a 25k stadium, and they, and the other rectangular sports, have been reticent to allow Canberra to host larger events regularly and stadium size is part of the reason why.

but they won’t, nrl so now a tv sport, scheduling will mean crowds aren’t going to significantly grow, not by more than double in Canberra’s case. Doubling your crowd avg isnt stagnation!
Worse case scenario is you sell out every game so everyone is a fully ticketed member and you have people paying to wait for a membership like the Eagles!
Like said the finals is very easily resolved by the act govt making it a requisite with the nrl for them building it in the first place. Nrl won’t worry about sale of 5k tickets if it means raiders get a beaut new stadium that has potential to double their crowds!

 

[Quicksilver]

I don’t see any reason why crowds for any sport anywhere will rise significantly over the next decade.

 

[T-Boon]

I don’t see any reason why crowds for any sport anywhere will rise significantly over the next decade.

league is probably the only sport that has the potential to do so because it has up its sleeve the fact nobody has ever got off their butts and tried to improve crowds. The clubs have only ever put in their standard effort.

 

[baselinepanther]

include the tram/light rail as free transport on raiders game days if youre holding a ticket or members card .. that'll be a good option for the 80K people who live in gunghalin

well.. it'll be over 100K by 2030

 

[SLRBRONCOS]

A 25k stadium with single tier ends and 2 tier sidelines will fit 30k+ in concert form

 

[Quicksilver]

league is probably the only sport that has the potential to do so because it has up its sleeve the fact nobody has ever got off their butts and tried to improve crowds. The clubs have only ever put in their standard effort.

If you say so

 

[T-Boon]

If you say so

when have clubs put in a big effort with anything that isnt directly related to winning games?
They are unimpressive in every sphere.

 

[Quicksilver]

when have clubs put in a big effort with anything that isnt directly related to winning games?
They are unimpressive in every sphere.

How much time do you actually spend around these clubs?

 

[TheRam]

what is this in people minds? Anything less than a km ?

600m is the optimum or less. Once you start getting to the kilometre range it starts to look inconvenient, especially on bad weather days and if you have little ones. Also depends on the streets that you need to negotiate through. If well populated, well lit and feel safe, with shops and a buzz about the place, makes it much more enjoyable and attractive as opposed to the ugly walk from Central to the former SFS.

 

[Perth Red]

600m is the optimum or less. Once you start getting to the kilometre range it starts to look inconvenient, especially on bad weather days and if you have little ones. Also depends on the streets that you need to negotiate through. If well populated, well lit and feel safe, with shops and a buzz about the place, makes it much more enjoyable and attractive as opposed to the ugly walk from Central to the former SFS.

terrain as well. Walk to sfs is quite an uphill climb to get there where as Suncorp is down hill. Walking back the opposite way never seems so bad lol. I’d say a 10min walk is max for most families. Agree what the walk is also matters. Sfs first part is good past the bars and cafes but the second half getting across roads and through the park area not good. Suncorp I’ve always stayed on south bank and found it a really nice walk to the stadium with plenty of stop off options. Looking forward to getting to bankwest when the world reopens.

 

[no name]

but they won’t, nrl so now a tv sport, scheduling will mean crowds aren’t going to significantly grow, not by more than double in Canberra’s case. Doubling your crowd avg isnt stagnation!
Worse case scenario is you sell out every game so everyone is a fully ticketed member and you have people paying to wait for a membership like the Eagles!
Like said the finals is very easily resolved by the act govt making it a requisite with the nrl for them building it in the first place. Nrl won’t worry about sale of 5k tickets if it means raiders get a beaut new stadium that has potential to double their crowds!

Does Manly have fans paying to wait for a membership?

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Does Manly have fans paying to wait for a membership?

He's talking about his beloved AFL

 

[Jamberoo]

but they won’t, nrl so now a tv sport, scheduling will mean crowds aren’t going to significantly grow, not by more than double in Canberra’s case. Doubling your crowd avg isnt stagnation!
Worse case scenario is you sell out every game so everyone is a fully ticketed member and you have people paying to wait for a membership like the Eagles!
Like said the finals is very easily resolved by the act govt making it a requisite with the nrl for them building it in the first place. Nrl won’t worry about sale of 5k tickets if it means raiders get a beaut new stadium that has potential to double their crowds!

Agree. Two most common ways to increase demand.
1. Change your offering - improve the product, reduce the price, etc
2. Reduce supply. This is the easy one. By having a stadium slightly smaller than the demand, you can create a situation where people have to be a club member to gain access. This also creates a better game day experience due to the better atmosphere by having the stadium 70% full most weeks rather than 50%. THis is the AFL model in Perth, Adelaide and Geelong. It works, and is much more profitable for clubs.

 

[Jamberoo]

From the SMH regarding a new stadium on Liverpool.

Dogs, Tigers to pool resources?
The Canterbury Bulldogs and Wests Tigers have begun discussions about sharing a new stadium in Liverpool, with the NRL lodging plans with the NSW government for a 17,500-seat venue in south-west Sydney.

Bulldogs chairman John Khoury has spoken to ARLC chairman Peter V’landys about selling the block of land they own at Liverpool, but there are concerns about the size of the site.

The new stadium in Victoria being built for A-League club Western United that the new stadium in Liverpool is being modelled on.

The stadium design is modelled on A-League club Western United’s new venue, which will have a capacity of about 15,000 when completed.

Liverpool City Council has no appetite to offer up nearby land, which currently houses the Whitlam Leisure Centre, recently putting an offer to the Bulldogs to acquire the land they own.

The council offered up a vacant block close to the new Badgerys Creek Airport, but the NRL and Bulldogs do not want to venture away from infrastructure currently in place in Liverpool.

In light of the state government’s decision to ditch plans to refurbish ANZ Stadium, the NRL has submitted a proposal for three or four “mini Bankwest Stadiums” around Sydney.

The NRL’s priority is to build a new venue at Liverpool, but it is still waiting for government to assess the business case.

The Tigers have indicated to the Bulldogs that they would be happy to share a new stadium in Liverpool, however have also been made aware of plans from Campbelltown Council to upgrade the suburban venue.

 

[Perth Red]

17,500? The game knows no limits to its ambitions lol.
It should be a condition of license that you play in a min 25k capacity stadium. When you have extra capacity you can do things like Eels are now doing with free kids memberships.

 

[ash the bash]

17,500? The game knows no limits to its ambitions lol.
It should be a condition of license that you play in a min 25k capacity stadium. When you have extra capacity you can do things like Eels are now doing with free kids memberships.

I agree, recall an earlier article when Hill was the CEO of Canterbury and he mentioned they had plans for having a 30K plus stadium at the Liverpool site. 17,5K for the WT's and Bulldogs is way too niche at a minimum has to be at least 25K.