The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[yadamisha]

Southern Stadium is a waste. Sharks have Shark Park

And the Steelers already have the Gong

Kogarah serves no purpose for RL

If Wests want to be a inner west team then its Leichhardt

But I would then release the Macarthur to the Dogs

Hence why if any money is spent in the south it will be split for upgrades to Shark Park and/or Gong. Kogarah is dead in the water to all!

 

[MugaB]

or sell the land & use some of the funds aquired to build a purpose built rectangle 70K seater somewhere else

Like Liverpool? 70k is fkn huge tho for a doggies or tigers match, apparently the land the dogs have in liverpool will only fit a 15k capacity stadium, better off improving belmore, although liverpool does have the south west CBD and can cater for both dogs and tigers

 

[MugaB]

Now *THERE* is a scenario that shows some promise.

Build a new stadium at Liverpool, beef up transport links from the South-West (Campbelltown etc) to the new stadium, put the Bulldogs, Tigers AND Macarthur FC there, and decomission Campbelltown Stadium - maybe sell the land to property developers to partially fund some of this?

The looming white elephant status of Stadium Australia is worrying - especially if Souths move to the new SFS.

If only the new SFS was being built to 65k capacity with a "club mode" of approx 25k (give or take a few thousand), then demolishing Stadium Australia once it's redevelopment fell-through would be a no-brainer.

Sure it's a bit of a dip for big events, but I think the NRL could have handled it for as long as it took for another 80k behemoth to be built (a couple decades, tops) - this time done right.

If i was a stadium architect, I'd build the SFS as a 65-70k stadium with a shallow west end that faces the sideline, also corparate boxes above that too, keeping the stadium low on one side but packed on the non sunny side is great for tv viewing, and camreas set up on the east to view that west side, wont look terrible on tv as it did when the roosters have club games there, but it also means that you can pack out the stadium on SoO or Finals/GF day, presumably if ANZ disapears

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

If i was a stadium architect, I'd build the SFS as a 65-70k stadium with a shallow west end that faces the sideline, also corparate boxes above that too, keeping the stadium low on one side but packed on the non sunny side is great for tv viewing, and camreas set up on the east to view that west side, wont look terrible on tv as it did when the roosters have club games there, but it also means that you can pack out the stadium on SoO or Finals/GF day, presumably if ANZ disapears

Won’t work Mugs. I don’t think the producers want their cameras facing the sun unless massive lens flares is considered good television. Also players could appear in silhouette when backlit.

 

[baselinepanther]

Like Liverpool? 70k is fkn huge tho for a doggies or tigers match, apparently the land the dogs have in liverpool will only fit a 15k capacity stadium, better off improving belmore, although liverpool does have the south west CBD and can cater for both dogs and tigers

it would be the premier rectangle stadia in australia so not just the home ground of a few clubs.

 

[TheRam]

I can understand why they dropped rectangular sports, it would’ve been a horrible atmosphere for Basketball, Netball, tennis etc.

Honestly, multi sports stadiums suck. They need to be consigned to the dustbin.

Did you read the articles at all. It changes configuration for different sports.

But that wasn't put forward as the argument. Money was stated as the reason why. But I have a sneaky suspicion that that is not the true reason either, because if they built it as first planed, the added tenants would have made it more then profitable over its lifetime.

No, I suspect the AFL freaked out that a stadium that good, indoors and right in the city of Adelaide would have been a magnet for their rivals who would gain a foot hold and insert and prosper with teams right in the centre of one of their heartlands.

I mean could you imagine if Sydney built a brand new stadium over Central Station that was only good for AFL and no one else and the leg up that would give them?

It is that kind of scenario that the AFL were staring at and they wouldn't of liked it one bit and they have the friends in high places and the clout to do something about it. Unlike the NRL they are always proactive and successful in making sure that they advance by thwarting their opposition from ever getting an even break. They know that if the NRL miss out on this that even if we eventually decided to bring a team to Adelaide, that where they play out of is one of the major make or break parts of any successful franchise.

So by blocking this stadium from hosting NRL games they have basically stopped the NRL from even looking at a team for the next couple of decades at least and even if or when the NRL does decides it is time, the best location and venue that the NRL could hope for will be somewhere out of the city and a makeshift, bits and pieces type of ground.

In other words a second class citizen type of venue that will not make anyone who has no interest in the NRL already to want to go and be part of. An indoor state of the art city stadium for 22K however would have given fans of sport in general a massive hard on and the AFL a real headache. That is why V'Landys should be banging down the door of the SA Gov for a reevaluation and reversal of this RL damaging decision. But instead...crickets. He and Soccer and RA should band together and make a case for them to be included as cotenants. The NRL could for example state that once this Stadium is up and running, they will look at bringing a team to Adelaide, but if they could not play there, then the NRL would not be looking at expanding to Adelaide for at least 20 years because the financial numbers wont stack up.

But V'Landys needs to act now otherwise it will be to late and Adelaide is a bust for the NRL as a viable and successful option. As they say in the classics, location, location, location and add to that state of the art all weather indoors and warm in winter and intimate atmosphere, you would have a virtual guaranteed winner. Why on earth are we so non proactive as a sport?

 

[mongoose]

exactly why the NRL should be planning for a team in Adelaide, cause the AFL are scared shitless of us getting a foothold in SA and WA.

 

[TheRam]

Now *THERE* is a scenario that shows some promise.

Build a new stadium at Liverpool, beef up transport links from the South-West (Campbelltown etc) to the new stadium, put the Bulldogs, Tigers AND Macarthur FC there, and decomission Campbelltown Stadium - maybe sell the land to property developers to partially fund some of this?

The looming white elephant status of Stadium Australia is worrying - especially if Souths move to the new SFS.

If only the new SFS was being built to 65k capacity with a "club mode" of approx 25k (give or take a few thousand), then demolishing Stadium Australia once it's redevelopment fell-through would be a no-brainer.

Sure it's a bit of a dip for big events, but I think the NRL could have handled it for as long as it took for another 80k behemoth to be built (a couple decades, tops) - this time done right.

Who cares if Stadium Australia is a white elephant? As long as our clubs are playing out of quality fit for purpose stadiums in their preferred location then it is a great thing for Rugby League. Besides, maybe the Governments of the future can look at the building of the Olympic Stadium to suit AFL was a disaster and to never do it again over the interests of the other 3 major football codes and who would have been the major tenants of these types of stadiums in our States.

The only real issue I have with the smaller boutique stadium approach is the location of Manly's stadium. I don't like it at all that the location has remained at Brookvale. Brookvale is to isolated and has no transport infrastructure for the wider community. Not even for the wider Northern Sydney community either. I believe that it should be built somewhere along the Northern Sydney train line, preferably Chatswood, like at Chatswood Park would be awesome. But I am not sure if the Park is big enough? But can you imagine if we plonked at 25K all seater right there. It would be full every week and even fans from other teams would find it easy to get to and from making it as successful as Bank West if not more so.

The whole of the North Shore should be thought of when we are planning for a stadium for Manly. They are the only team from the bridge to Newcastle, so it needs to be inclusive of all those people, not just cater to the Many faithful. The Sea Eagles have ignored the community of the greater north shore for decades now and have not made any real inroads into the former North Sydney Bears strong holds either. They are pathetic in this regard. The NRL therefore should be proactive in creating an environment for them to have a greater presence and therefore better chance of attracting new supporters. Building their new stadium in a better, more central and transport friendly location would be I would have thought an obvious way to do this. But again, we seem to be always asking for the bare minimum. Location, location, location. Once you have that, then the bells and whistles is just cream on the top.

Think about it, would any of the great and well patronized stadiums in Australia be anywhere near as successful if firstly their location wasn't great? The answer of course is no, that is the first step in getting the puzzle right. From there success is a mere formality.

 

[TheRam]

exactly why the NRL should be planning for a team in Adelaide, cause the AFL are scared shitless of us getting a foothold in SA and WA.

And play where? A shithole? Yeah sure, the AFL are trembling in their boots. They know if you haven't got the quality Stadium in the best and most advantageous location, then attracting quality players and gaining new supporters and sustaining them long term, without being a Melbourne Storm type of winning team, is Buckley's chance to none.

It is a modern world now and everyone from fan to player wants to see the bling. If you don't have it you will fail to capture most peoples imagination and therefore their love and loyalty long term. Remember, this is a AFL stronghold, so you need to put your best foot forward. Second rate will not cut it at all. The people of Adelaide aren't chumps. They would expect and demand the best if you were to try and convince them to add you to their rotation of sports choices to go and watch. This indoor build is just that. A fishing lure that would be to seductive to ignore. Once there I'm sure the atmosphere would be such a pleasant one and very seductive, leaving them wanting even more, especially once the team starts to have on field success.

Also think of it this way from a players point of view. If you were a potential NRL player recruit, would you rather play in a purpose built indoor city stadium that has atmosphere and almost always near full capacity or at Shark park in front of 8-12K in the middle of a miserable Sydney winters night? Players are just like the rest of us. If a franchise has a vibe and exciting feel about it, then they too will respond favourably and want to be part of that and by taking out the weather factor, its brilliant location and superb amenities, they know that their home ground will be a winner for fan, corporates, team and by extension them.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Did you read the articles at all. It changes configuration for different sports.

But that wasn't put forward as the argument. Money was stated as the reason why. But I have a sneaky suspicion that that is not the true reason either, because if they built it as first planed, the added tenants would have made it more then profitable over its lifetime.

No, I suspect the AFL freaked out that a stadium that good, indoors and right in the city of Adelaide would have been a magnet for their rivals who would gain a foot hold and insert and prosper with teams right in the centre of one of their heartlands.

I mean could you imagine if Sydney built a brand new stadium over Central Station that was only good for AFL and no one else and the leg up that would give them?

It is that kind of scenario that the AFL were staring at and they wouldn't of liked it one bit and they have the friends in high places and the clout to do something about it. Unlike the NRL they are always proactive and successful in making sure that they advance by thwarting their opposition from ever getting an even break. They know that if the NRL miss out on this that even if we eventually decided to bring a team to Adelaide, that where they play out of is one of the major make or break parts of any successful franchise.

So by blocking this stadium from hosting NRL games they have basically stopped the NRL from even looking at a team for the next couple of decades at least and even if or when the NRL does decides it is time, the best location and venue that the NRL could hope for will be somewhere out of the city and a makeshift, bits and pieces type of ground.

In other words a second class citizen type of venue that will not make anyone who has no interest in the NRL already to want to go and be part of. An indoor state of the art city stadium for 22K however would have given fans of sport in general a massive hard on and the AFL a real headache. That is why V'Landys should be banging down the door of the SA Gov for a reevaluation and reversal of this RL damaging decision. But instead...crickets. He and Soccer and RA should band together and make a case for them to be included as cotenants. The NRL could for example state that once this Stadium is up and running, they will look at bringing a team to Adelaide, but if they could not play there, then the NRL would not be looking at expanding to Adelaide for at least 20 years because the financial numbers wont stack up.

But V'Landys needs to act now otherwise it will be to late and Adelaide is a bust for the NRL as a viable and successful option. As they say in the classics, location, location, location and add to that state of the art all weather indoors and warm in winter and intimate atmosphere, you would have a virtual guaranteed winner. Why on earth are we so non proactive as a sport?

They often change configurations, see stadium Australia or docklands. But there’s compromises in that. You never get as good a stadium as what dedicated facilities are.

I just can’t share your enthusiasm about Adelaide, It’s so far down the expansion route for the NRL. By the time wed even consider Adelaide this stadium will be 20-30 years old.

 

[herbert henry1908]

If i was a stadium architect, I'd build the SFS as a 65-70k stadium with a shallow west end that faces the sideline, also corparate boxes above that too, keeping the stadium low on one side but packed on the non sunny side is great for tv viewing, and camreas set up on the east to view that west side, wont look terrible on tv as it did when the roosters have club games there, but it also means that you can pack out the stadium on SoO or Finals/GF day, presumably if ANZ disapears

They couldn’t get planning approval for such a big stadium at Moore park, when 55k was proposed people went absolutely nuts.

Any future large stadium must be right next door to a train station.

 

[flippikat]

I'm getting a feeling that the Tigers' nomad nature may soon be the undoing of them.. if the Bulldogs commit fulltime to a Liverpool stadium & the Tigers dither, there's a chance the Bulldogs could become the de facto team of the inner-west to south-west corridor.. and yes, that includes Campbelltown.

 

[Perth Red]

Hence why if any money is spent in the south it will be split for upgrades to Shark Park and/or Gong. Kogarah is dead in the water to all!

yet that’s the only one so far the nsw govt has identified to spend money on a feasibility study for?

 

[Perth Red]

Did you read the articles at all. It changes configuration for different sports.

But that wasn't put forward as the argument. Money was stated as the reason why. But I have a sneaky suspicion that that is not the true reason either, because if they built it as first planed, the added tenants would have made it more then profitable over its lifetime.

No, I suspect the AFL freaked out that a stadium that good, indoors and right in the city of Adelaide would have been a magnet for their rivals who would gain a foot hold and insert and prosper with teams right in the centre of one of their heartlands.

I mean could you imagine if Sydney built a brand new stadium over Central Station that was only good for AFL and no one else and the leg up that would give them?

It is that kind of scenario that the AFL were staring at and they wouldn't of liked it one bit and they have the friends in high places and the clout to do something about it. Unlike the NRL they are always proactive and successful in making sure that they advance by thwarting their opposition from ever getting an even break. They know that if the NRL miss out on this that even if we eventually decided to bring a team to Adelaide, that where they play out of is one of the major make or break parts of any successful franchise.

So by blocking this stadium from hosting NRL games they have basically stopped the NRL from even looking at a team for the next couple of decades at least and even if or when the NRL does decides it is time, the best location and venue that the NRL could hope for will be somewhere out of the city and a makeshift, bits and pieces type of ground.

In other words a second class citizen type of venue that will not make anyone who has no interest in the NRL already to want to go and be part of. An indoor state of the art city stadium for 22K however would have given fans of sport in general a massive hard on and the AFL a real headache. That is why V'Landys should be banging down the door of the SA Gov for a reevaluation and reversal of this RL damaging decision. But instead...crickets. He and Soccer and RA should band together and make a case for them to be included as cotenants. The NRL could for example state that once this Stadium is up and running, they will look at bringing a team to Adelaide, but if they could not play there, then the NRL would not be looking at expanding to Adelaide for at least 20 years because the financial numbers wont stack up.

But V'Landys needs to act now otherwise it will be to late and Adelaide is a bust for the NRL as a viable and successful option. As they say in the classics, location, location, location and add to that state of the art all weather indoors and warm in winter and intimate atmosphere, you would have a virtual guaranteed winner. Why on earth are we so non proactive as a sport?

when Vlandys is telling those states they have a cat in Hells chance of ever having an nrl club why do you think their govts are going to spend silly money ona rectangular stadium? Certainly not for 8k aleague crowds.

i can imagine the conversation:
Vlandys: hi Steve, Vlandys here
Premier: who?
Vlandys, nrl chair mate, I hear you’re building a new indoor arena in the city
Premier, oh, yeh that’s right
Vlandys: how about spending an extra $200mill on it so it’s fit for rectangular sports including nrl.
Premier: errr, you saying nrl is interested in putting an nrl club here?
Vlandys: well, errrr, not yet but never say never
Premier: arent you the bloke who said nrl shouldnt waste money on afl states?
Vlandys: errr, yeh that was me
CLICK
Vlandys: hello? Steve you still there? Hello.........

 

[parrawentyfan]

Who cares if Stadium Australia is a white elephant? As long as our clubs are playing out of quality fit for purpose stadiums in their preferred location then it is a great thing for Rugby League. Besides, maybe the Governments of the future can look at the building of the Olympic Stadium to suit AFL was a disaster and to never do it again over the interests of the other 3 major football codes and who would have been the major tenants of these types of stadiums in our States.

The only real issue I have with the smaller boutique stadium approach is the location of Manly's stadium. I don't like it at all that the location has remained at Brookvale. Brookvale is to isolated and has no transport infrastructure for the wider community. Not even for the wider Northern Sydney community either. I believe that it should be built somewhere along the Northern Sydney train line, preferably Chatswood, like at Chatswood Park would be awesome. But I am not sure if the Park is big enough? But can you imagine if we plonked at 25K all seater right there. It would be full every week and even fans from other teams would find it easy to get to and from making it as successful as Bank West if not more so.

The whole of the North Shore should be thought of when we are planning for a stadium for Manly. They are the only team from the bridge to Newcastle, so it needs to be inclusive of all those people, not just cater to the Many faithful. The Sea Eagles have ignored the community of the greater north shore for decades now and have not made any real inroads into the former North Sydney Bears strong holds either. They are pathetic in this regard. The NRL therefore should be proactive in creating an environment for them to have a greater presence and therefore better chance of attracting new supporters. Building their new stadium in a better, more central and transport friendly location would be I would have thought an obvious way to do this. But again, we seem to be always asking for the bare minimum. Location, location, location. Once you have that, then the bells and whistles is just cream on the top.

Think about it, would any of the great and well patronized stadiums in Australia be anywhere near as successful if firstly their location wasn't great? The answer of course is no, that is the first step in getting the puzzle right. From there success is a mere formality.

A stadium in Chatswood would be awesome but I think we've missed the boat on that. Land is so expensive and I don't think there's a big enough footprint anywhere. I've always thought we had a few stadiums just off kilter in the wrong spot.

Parramatta is in the right spot. Penrith and Campbelltown are pretty good too.

It would have been amazing to have.
- Dogs in Bankstown CBD
- Sea-Eagles in Chatswood CBD
- Sharks in Sutherland CBD
- Dragons (pre-Wollongong days) in Hurstville.

All major centres on train lines with shops etc nearby.

 

[herbert henry1908]

If Adelaide ever gets an NRL team they’ll build an rectangular ground anyway. They’ll have an Aleague team and want to attract RU & football internationals as well. They’ll be left behind if they don’t.

 

[TheRam]

They often change configurations, see stadium Australia or docklands. But there’s compromises in that. You never get as good a stadium as what dedicated facilities are.

I just can’t share your enthusiasm about Adelaide, It’s so far down the expansion route for the NRL. By the time wed even consider Adelaide this stadium will be 20-30 years old.

Mate we aren't talking about reconfiguring a cavernous 80k size stadium down to 40k. It is a 22k down to 15k. Much more intimate and won't stuff up the viewing experience.

As for Adelaide not being ready for 20-30 years, well this decision has guaranteed that outcome for sure and even if we are ever ready we will never have an opportunity to have a state of the art stadium right in the city of Adelaide and fully in doors. It is a one time offer only. Once gone, the city will have grown and become to expensive space will be at a premium to ever go back and revisit this opportunity.

Lost forever. V'Landys wake up mate. You are asleep at the wheel FFS!!!

 

[Mr Angry]

So does Venues NSW just resume the land the councils own @ Penrith, Brookvale and Kogarah?

 

[Perth Red]

So does Venues NSW just resume the land the councils own @ Penrith, Brookvale and Kogarah?

more likely they’ll work out a long lease agreement with the councils. That’s what happened in perth for state govt to spend big on hbf park upgrade.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Mate we aren't talking about reconfiguring a cavernous 80k size stadium down to 40k. It is a 22k down to 15k. Much more intimate and won't stuff up the viewing experience.

As for Adelaide not being ready for 20-30 years, well this decision has guaranteed that outcome for sure and even if we are ever ready we will never have an opportunity to have a state of the art stadium right in the city of Adelaide and fully in doors. It is a one time offer only. Once gone, the city will have grown and become to expensive space will be at a premium to ever go back and revisit this opportunity.

Lost forever. V'Landys wake up mate. You are asleep at the wheel FFS!!!

If V’Landys went knocking, the SA govt would want a guarantee of a team, at least a timeline for a team. The NRL aren’t in the position to offer them anything. Honestly think you’re getting worked up over nothing here.

Anyway, Coopers stadium down there isnt exactly out in the sticks. It’s only 4km from the CBD. It’ll be the likely venue for a new stadium.