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Game Day Spoon Discussion: Eels v Titans

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
90,278
The main thing is they didn't look good against us.

As for next year, we're a completely different team out wide and in the halves so very little about this year is useful for pre-judging our 2012.
 

Maroubra Eel

Coach
Messages
19,044
This is true.

I think it will be easier next year for blokes like Sio and Loko. We should have a few wins and they should get confidence out of playing in a successful side.

I'm really looking forward to next season. I'm not expecting to win the comp but I reckon we will be very competitive and be right up there.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
152,648
Not sure why all the Lukey love, he had a fair game at half but didn't really set up much as a play maker. He's good utility value though.

When you compare what Hayne did with try assists and LBA, its a not contest for the best player.

The big difference last night was the input from our backs who have pretty much been crap all year.

Looking forward to seeing a fit Sio next year, we didn't see any of his speed last night. If he gets any space he is very hard to catch and from 10 metres out he'll find the line like he did last night more often that not.

Bring on 2012.
 

SeftonBoy

Juniors
Messages
306
Where did Ashley/Sefto go? Burt's playing aweful right?

If you honestly believe that Burt's good performance on Sat night cancels all the rubbish he's served up this year then you're kidding yourself.

The Titans performance was one of worst i've ever seen from a FG side & any halfback would have had a field day. Wonder how he would of went against a Manly or a Melbourne who would of pummelled him into submission.

Burt is a front runner & will not get physical against the top sides. It's easy to do it against hopeless opposition.

For those saying he'd be a good utility - i'm not so sure. He won't come on as a halfback because Sandow will play 80 min, he can't come on as a hooker because he can't tackle, he can't come on as a winger because he won't tackle, take bombs or do dummy half runs. Sio showed enough Sat night to be given a shot. His only option to me is fullback & Hayne will be there. So Wenty for Burt & only plays FG when injuries or SOO duties cover.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,381
If you honestly believe that Burt's good performance on Sat night cancels all the rubbish he's served up this year then you're kidding yourself.

The Titans performance was one of worst i've ever seen from a FG side & any halfback would have had a field day. Wonder how he would of went against a Manly or a Melbourne who would of pummelled him into submission.

Burt is a front runner & will not get physical against the top sides. It's easy to do it against hopeless opposition.

For those saying he'd be a good utility - i'm not so sure. He won't come on as a halfback because Sandow will play 80 min, he can't come on as a hooker because he can't tackle, he can't come on as a winger because he won't tackle, take bombs or do dummy half runs. Sio showed enough Sat night to be given a shot. His only option to me is fullback & Hayne will be there. So Wenty for Burt & only plays FG when injuries or SOO duties cover.


I`m confused. Why would Burt be an option at fullback if he can`t tackle, take bombs or run from dummy-half (all of which he can do by the way)?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
90,278
I`m confused. Why would Burt be an option at fullback if he can`t tackle, take bombs or run from dummy-half (all of which he can do by the way)?

Fullbacks usually don't concede tries through missed tackles because they usually face two or three on one - even if they make the tackle the try is usually scored. OTOH, a miss on the wing is a one-on-one f**kup that nearly always leads to a linebreak and often a try. Not only that but a small winger on his line can go low, make the tackle and still concede the try. They need to either wrap up the ball or drive the attacker back.

As for taking bombs, you want that from any fullback but you can forgive its lack if he's good in other areas (e.g. Barba at Canterbury). At least a fullback gets plenty of cover (or he should) when he's bombed, unlike wingers who are usually fairly isolated under the high ball.

As for running from dummy half, any player who is good at it should do it, but given how little they have to do in defence, the wingers' main job is to run the ball as much as they can, especially on exit sets.

Here are some numbers from a few wingers' most recent games (at wing):

Uate 18 runs (328 metres)
Talanoa 17 runs (149 metres)
Morris 13 runs (200 metres)
Nightingale 14 runs (148 metres)
Inu 14 runs (136 metres)
Faifai Loa 18 runs (131 metres)

The last time Burt played wing was against Canberra:

Burt 7 runs (55 metres)

In the same game our other winger contributed thusly:

Atkins 15 runs (120 metres)

Burt's previous games on the wing:

vs Manly 6 runs (73 metres)
vs Illawarra 13 runs (79 metres)
vs Newcastle 7 runs (69 metres)
vs Cronulla 10 runs (127 metres)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vs N. Queensland 4 runs (25 metres)
 

Gordy

Juniors
Messages
943
Fullbacks usually don't concede tries through missed tackles because they usually face two or three on one - even if they make the tackle the try is usually scored. OTOH, a miss on the wing is a one-on-one f**kup that nearly always leads to a linebreak and often a try. Not only that but a small winger on his line can go low, make the tackle and still concede the try. They need to either wrap up the ball or drive the attacker back.

As for taking bombs, you want that from any fullback but you can forgive its lack if he's good in other areas (e.g. Barba at Canterbury). At least a fullback gets plenty of cover (or he should) when he's bombed, unlike wingers who are usually fairly isolated under the high ball.

As for running from dummy half, any player who is good at it should do it, but given how little they have to do in defence, the wingers' main job is to run the ball as much as they can, especially on exit sets.

Here are some numbers from a few wingers' most recent games (at wing):

Uate 18 runs (328 metres)
Talanoa 17 runs (149 metres)
Morris 13 runs (200 metres)
Nightingale 14 runs (148 metres)
Inu 14 runs (136 metres)
Faifai Loa 18 runs (131 metres)

The last time Burt played wing was against Canberra:

Burt 7 runs (55 metres)

In the same game our other winger contributed thusly:

Atkins 15 runs (120 metres)

Burt's previous games on the wing:

vs Manly 6 runs (73 metres)
vs Illawarra 13 runs (79 metres)
vs Newcastle 7 runs (69 metres)
vs Cronulla 10 runs (127 metres)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vs N. Queensland 4 runs (25 metres)

Well that's shite!!
 

TheParraboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
67,775
Fullbacks usually don't concede tries through missed tackles because they usually face two or three on one - even if they make the tackle the try is usually scored. OTOH, a miss on the wing is a one-on-one f**kup that nearly always leads to a linebreak and often a try. Not only that but a small winger on his line can go low, make the tackle and still concede the try. They need to either wrap up the ball or drive the attacker back.

As for taking bombs, you want that from any fullback but you can forgive its lack if he's good in other areas (e.g. Barba at Canterbury). At least a fullback gets plenty of cover (or he should) when he's bombed, unlike wingers who are usually fairly isolated under the high ball.

As for running from dummy half, any player who is good at it should do it, but given how little they have to do in defence, the wingers' main job is to run the ball as much as they can, especially on exit sets.

Here are some numbers from a few wingers' most recent games (at wing):

Uate 18 runs (328 metres)
Talanoa 17 runs (149 metres)
Morris 13 runs (200 metres)
Nightingale 14 runs (148 metres)
Inu 14 runs (136 metres)
Faifai Loa 18 runs (131 metres)

The last time Burt played wing was against Canberra:

Burt 7 runs (55 metres)

In the same game our other winger contributed thusly:

Atkins 15 runs (120 metres)

Burt's previous games on the wing:

vs Manly 6 runs (73 metres)
vs Illawarra 13 runs (79 metres)
vs Newcastle 7 runs (69 metres)
vs Cronulla 10 runs (127 metres)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vs N. Queensland 4 runs (25 metres)

Damning evidence!


Would size be an issue?

I cant recall Emasri regularly doing 15 hitups and 160 metres a game

Also, go through that list, Not one comes close to Burt as far as kicking game and footy brain is concerned. Maybe he indeed should have been given a go at halfback years ago?
 

Tony Bongo

Bench
Messages
3,006
I'm surprised more of them don't have stats similar to Uate. :shock:
Choosing 6 out of over 32 wingers that played this week and narrowing their contributions down to just hit ups and metres gained is being a little selective don't you think ?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
90,278
Would size be an issue?

It's the issue.

Burt would have to be the smallest winger in the game. And to think he came to the club as a centre.

I cant recall Emasri regularly doing 15 hitups and 160 metres a game

Like Burt, El Masri lasted so long because of his goalkicking. Plus he was a fair bit bigger and stronger than Luke Burt. Hazem was no Manu Vatuvei but at least he could defend on his line, and his hit-ups were better than Burt's.

Also, go through that list, Not one comes close to Burt as far as kicking game and footy brain is concerned.

Totally agree, and that's why the only place he offers anything in first grade is at fullback.

Maybe he indeed should have been given a go at halfback years ago?

Yep. In hindsight you have to wonder why it took over 200 games (not counting his time in the lower grades) for him to get a shot in the halves.

He has the kicking game and the attacking instincts (support and broken play running) but maybe he doesn't have the mindset to organise a team. It was a lot more important to have an organising halfback when Burt came into grade - things were less structured and more players were given free reign to make decisions on the field. Also his passing game never seemed too flash.

Anyway my earlier post was just to show why Burt's not good enough to be an NRL winger but might be good enough for fullback, at least as a backup.
 

Bigfella

Coach
Messages
10,102
Yeah poo it's not fair comparing him to good wingers.

Maybe have a Beau Ryan / John Williams category as well
 

jason taylor

Bench
Messages
3,537
If you honestly believe that Burt's good performance on Sat night cancels all the rubbish he's served up this year then you're kidding yourself.

The Titans performance was one of worst i've ever seen from a FG side & any halfback would have had a field day. Wonder how he would of went against a Manly or a Melbourne who would of pummelled him into submission.

Burt is a front runner & will not get physical against the top sides. It's easy to do it against hopeless opposition.

For those saying he'd be a good utility - i'm not so sure. He won't come on as a halfback because Sandow will play 80 min, he can't come on as a hooker because he can't tackle, he can't come on as a winger because he won't tackle, take bombs or do dummy half runs. Sio showed enough Sat night to be given a shot. His only option to me is fullback & Hayne will be there. So Wenty for Burt & only plays FG when injuries or SOO duties cover.

Won't tackle? Didn't he save a try against the Titans?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
90,278
I'm surprised more of them don't have stats similar to Uate. :shock:

Uate had about a thousand linebreaks in that game. That always inflates the stats for metres gained.

Choosing 6 out of over 32 wingers that played this week and narrowing their contributions down to just hit ups and metres gained is being a little selective don't you think ?

I picked six of the good ones to show what kind of production you want from your wingers on a good day. The fact I showed several of Burt's games and only one of them (our biggest win of the season) came close shows how little he contributes to our go-forward.

I also compared him with Atkins in one game, and showed how Atkins had more than twice as many carries for more than double the metres gained.

And Atkins is fairly average at hitting the ball up.

It's all well and good to have a smart winger who can kick and support well in broken play, but you need more than that from a winger. This is why Nathan Merritt is always overlooked for Origin; not because he's black. And like Nathan Merritt, Luke Burt's best position is at fullback where his job is to support around the middle of the field. Because when your wingers are hanging around the middle of the field they're not out wide stretching the defence or being ready to take advantage of an overlap.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,381
Fullbacks usually don't concede tries through missed tackles because they usually face two or three on one - even if they make the tackle the try is usually scored. OTOH, a miss on the wing is a one-on-one f**kup that nearly always leads to a linebreak and often a try. Not only that but a small winger on his line can go low, make the tackle and still concede the try. They need to either wrap up the ball or drive the attacker back.

As for taking bombs, you want that from any fullback but you can forgive its lack if he's good in other areas (e.g. Barba at Canterbury). At least a fullback gets plenty of cover (or he should) when he's bombed, unlike wingers who are usually fairly isolated under the high ball.

As for running from dummy half, any player who is good at it should do it, but given how little they have to do in defence, the wingers' main job is to run the ball as much as they can, especially on exit sets.

Here are some numbers from a few wingers' most recent games (at wing):

Uate 18 runs (328 metres)
Talanoa 17 runs (149 metres)
Morris 13 runs (200 metres)
Nightingale 14 runs (148 metres)
Inu 14 runs (136 metres)
Faifai Loa 18 runs (131 metres)

The last time Burt played wing was against Canberra:

Burt 7 runs (55 metres)

In the same game our other winger contributed thusly:

Atkins 15 runs (120 metres)

Burt's previous games on the wing:

vs Manly 6 runs (73 metres)
vs Illawarra 13 runs (79 metres)
vs Newcastle 7 runs (69 metres)
vs Cronulla 10 runs (127 metres)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vs N. Queensland 4 runs (25 metres)


Well ...... I didn`t expect that! I was merely expressing my surprise that Sefton Boy would consider Luke Burt at fullback if he (supposedly) can`t do ANY of those things (i.e: tackle, take bombs or run from dummy-half.)
I`m glad I didn`t mention that the fork was dirty!
 

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