GENERAL - Tonie Carroll

[deluded pom?]

What a joke that Carroll has been chosen for the Australia train on squad for the Tri Nations . He is a Kiwi international full stop. I don`t care where he has lived most of his life, he was perfectly happy to represent NZ when he thought he didn`t have a chance of a Kangaroos shirt. Once again Australia fly in the face of what`s best for the game and do what`s best for Australia . Who knows you could be watching Adrian Morley in the green and gold soon .It`s also a sad endictment on the talent available in Australia . Don`t you have anyone better than Carroll ?

 

[bartman]

Yeah, it's a bit of a joke, they need to be clear about criteria for representing national sides vs Australian state of origin.

He's been ruled eligible for Qld State of Origin for some time, so I guess it follows that he's a shot at getting Australia selection? Unfortunately Australia's a bit short of lock options, so Carroll may even make the plane

 

[League Freak™]

I dont think he'll be selected anyway.

 

[SP]

Didnt you know NZ became the 9th state of australia a few years ago

 

[joshreading]

Who is the eighth?

 

[The Observer]

The Kiwis have players like Vagana (centre), Kidwell (lock) and SB Williams (utility outside back or backrower) that would fill his role.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

Who is the eighth?

The North Island is the 8th. South Island is 9th ;-)

 

[yakstorm]

The cheapening of the 2000 RLWC from Tests to Internationals gave Carroll this loop hole. If the ARL was not allowed to do this, Carroll would now be unable to play for Australia or Queensland in Origin cause NZ is a Test Nation and you cannot swap test nations if you have played for them in a Test.

Carroll technically only played for them in an International, so its like how someone like Leon Pryce can play for West Indies in an International, yet have no problems pulling on the Red and Blue Vee of Great Britain.

Just for people's info the 2000 RLWC was meant to be considered that all matches were tests, but this was later changed after old players protested over the grading and the ARL went with that. Surprisingly there were no changes for the 95 World Cup in which all those matches were considered tests and a number of the 'protesting' individuals participated in that tournament......

 

[The Observer]

The downgrading of the status of RLWC 2000 matches from tests to internationals, especially the Kangaroo games vs England, Wales and NZ, was disappointing. Yakstorm, your information about the aftermath of RLWC 2000 vs 1995 is fascinating, and if anything shows that the ARL maintain a double standard. However, I can understand the reasons that the ARL wanted to downdgrade the RLWC test status. Its happened.

Nevertheless, I'm sure there is a stand down rule (24 months according to the NZRL's player search in Big League) between playing for two different national teams in tests. If there was a One Nation rule, it would be bad news for RL. Its great for RL if Leon Pryce plays for both GB and West Indies. In just the same way, I hope Carroll turns out for Aus if he wants to do so. Good luck to him, it would be great to see another dual international.

Now, the way in which players to go from one national team to anotheris crucial. The fact that Carroll is going because WC matches aren't classed as tests is an arbitrary, ad hoc means of a player changing between major national teams.

IMHO, as I've stated many teams to the chagrin of many regular posters , there should be a stand down period of 3 years (a standard permanent residency period in many countries around the world) if a player wants to switch between elite national teams - by that I mean Australia, NZ, GB and in 2006, France.

HOWEVER THE REAL ISSUE, which almost everyone has missed (although Wayne Bennett is a notable exception), is that the NZRL have failed to provide good incentive for players like Carroll to play for NZ - by not trying to plan their own representative series to rival State of Origin. Point the finger at Selwyn Pearson, Selwyn Bennett and Peter Cordtz.

 

[dimitri]

id like to see the 2008 world cup matches be classified as tests

 

[douglasallen91]

HOWEVER HE REAL ISSUE, which almost everyone has missed (although Wayne Bennett is a notable exception), is that the NZRL have failed to provide good incentive for players like Carroll to play for NZ - by not trying to plan their own representative series to rival State of Origin. Point the finger at Selwyn Pearson, Selwyn Bennett and Peter Cordtz.

when are they going to play these extra games, i don't think the coaches of the nrl teams are going to let their players off to miss more games and then you have the players over in the english super league

 

[yakstorm]

A 3 year stand down period I think is fine for changing nations, I think you will find the majority of posters were more up in arms about letting people change nations which they didn't live in but cause of more grandparents, and these people were doing it almost on a year by year basis.

If it is set that you can only change nations if you live in a country for 3 years WITHOUT playing a test for that nation you will no longer represent, then thats fine, you will only get a handful of individuals nation hoping, as 3 yrs is a long time in a footballer's career.

The NZ rep option again is a highly debate topic and one I think we shall move to another thread

 

[screeny]

This is not really a debating point, more of a difference of opinion, but I flatly disagree with Yakstorm and Joker in that I don't care if a country is a Test nation, an affiliate member ofthe RLIF or whatever - if a senior player has played for one country then he should not be able to play for another country. Full stop.

We are a joke. Ok so there's not much incentive for some players to pin their colours to a minor nation's mast, but that's the real challenge for RL, to make it worth their while by increasing the number of regular meaningful int'l matches minor nations play every year.

Having players claim to Windian one week then GBish the next is pathetic, and that goes for all countries.

Quoting these eligibility 'rules' as supposedly policed by the RLIF is merely a way of us hiding behind the inadequacies that govern our game.

And incidentally, I thought all WC matches through history were int'ls not Tests?

 

[yakstorm]

This is not really a debating point, more of a difference of opinion, but I flatly disagree with Yakstorm and Joker in that I don't care if a country is a Test nation, an affiliate member ofthe RLIF or whatever - if a senior player has played for one country then he should not be able to play for another country. Full stop.

It would be nice, but the simple fact is, good luck getting players to sign up for those minor nations if they are stuck with them then for life, and in most cases there is little problem with that, its only when it comes to World Cup time the issue grows, and that is a totally different topic of discussion compared to regular internationals aimed at either getting money for a nation or raising awareness.

We are a joke.

True, but so are Cricket, Rugby Union, Baseball and Basketball when it comes to the same thing. They allow people to play for 'minor' nations in internations but keep themselves eligable for test/major nations.

It has its benefits. The problem league needs to work out is how to stop this issue from occuring around World Cup time and also for our major internationals.

Fixing players to set nations wont happen, in fact the issue has been brought up before and the general concensus from player bodies is, any rule that does not give the option of someone to change their nation (even if it is a 3 yr gap) will not be accepted.

Ok so there's not much incentive for some players to pin their colours to a minor nation's mast, but that's the real challenge for RL, to make it worth their while by increasing the number of regular meaningful int'l matches minor nations play every year.

The RLIF doesn't have the funds to do that at the moment, again another thing which would be nice but not feasible at this current point in time.

Having players claim to Windian one week then GBish the next is pathetic, and that goes for all countries.

Perhaps but it got news of Rugby League into the papers in the Caribbean for the first time.

And incidentally, I thought all WC matches through history were int'ls not Tests?

World Cup VII (85-88)
World Cup VIII (89-92)
World Cup IX (95)

All the matches in those World Cups were considered Tests as well.

 

[AuckMel]

HOWEVER HE REAL ISSUE, which almost everyone has missed (although Wayne Bennett is a notable exception), is that the NZRL have failed to provide good incentive for players like Carroll to play for NZ - by not trying to plan their own representative series to rival State of Origin. Point the finger at Selwyn Pearson, Selwyn Bennett and Peter Cordtz.

when are they going to play these extra games, i don't think the coaches of the nrl teams are going to let their players off to miss more games and then you have the players over in the english super league

It would be a nightmare.

It would require the full support of the ARL, the NRL, the ESL and the International board. I just can't see those boards doing anything to support New Zealand on this issue.

We have had enough problems getting players released as it is. Trying to get them released for 3 more games just wouldn't happen.

Honestly, we can't get the Aussies to give us a 3 match Test series, what hope is there for a 3 match Island of Origin series fully supported by the above mentioned names?

 

[nz_novacastrian]

and we couldnt afford it, not to mention league would have to battle rugby for broadcasting rights to show it.

 

[The Observer]

HOWEVER HE REAL ISSUE, which almost everyone has missed (although Wayne Bennett is a notable exception), is that the NZRL have failed to provide good incentive for players like Carroll to play for NZ - by not trying to plan their own representative series to rival State of Origin. Point the finger at Selwyn Pearson, Selwyn Bennett and Peter Cordtz.

when are they going to play these extra games, i don't think the coaches of the nrl teams are going to let their players off to miss more games and then you have the players over in the english super league

It would be a nightmare.

It would require the full support of the ARL, the NRL, the ESL and the International board. I just can't see those boards doing anything to support New Zealand on this issue.

Auckmel, I think it requires the NZRL executive (the likes of Pearson, Bennett, Cordtz) to have the courage of their convictions, to have some vision and to actually have a go. It took some individual people to fight the NSWRL hard to get interstate football converted to an Origin basis in 1980. However they were successful.

The Kangaroos coach Wayne Bennett (developed the Tri Series, called on NZ to get their own rep tier of footy), NRL CEO David Gallop (assisted in 3N), English boss Richard Lewis (formerly boss of British Tennis, put together the European RL Federation) have all shown they will support the expansion of international football.

We have had enough problems getting players released as it is. Trying to get them released for 3 more games just wouldn't happen.

Honestly, we can't get the Aussies to give us a 3 match Test series, what hope is there for a 3 match Island of Origin series fully supported by the above mentioned names?

A 3 game series might be a bridge too far, but NZRL could get a 2 match series could be possible, after the NRL season. NZ will be playing Australia in possibly four test matches this season (ANZAC Test in Newcastle, October 3N test in Albany, 3N test at QPR, London, possibly the 3N final in Manchester). Next year there will be at least 3 tests with the ANZAC test and two Tri series tests.

Considering that NRL clubs are releasing NZ players to take part in a combined Australian/New Zealand team against Cumbria next month, is it such a stretch for an Origin style series?

As the situation stands, we are going to see a continuation of the drift of people like Thorn, Carroll, Mason, Tahu, Hunt and co to Australian RL.

 

[dimitri]

the decision of cutie to play for aus is ridiculous

we need to ensure that australia no longer poaches players


they may as well choose morely

 

[The Observer]

the decision of cutie to play for aus is ridiculous

we need to ensure that australia no longer poaches players

Whatever happened to the phrase "I am, you are, we are Australian"?

 

[AuckMel]

the decision of cutie to play for aus is ridiculous

we need to ensure that australia no longer poaches players

Whatever happened to the phrase "I am, you are, we are Australian"?

Mate, if he couldn't play a bit, he'd just be another sheep rooting, dole bludging Kiwi.