Geoff Carr warns players off Samoa

[Fifty Metre Line]

If you actually put some thought into alternatives instead of paranoid ranting about Origin dying, there are some fairly simple rule changes that would avoid this problem.

imo: You should be eligible for a State Rep side if you have lived in that state for minimum 6 years of your junior life, ie. 6 years under 18. If eligible for both, you can choose.

International eligibility is kept entirely separate, and we don't have ring ins from all over the place.

Benji Marshall would not be eligible. Karmicheal Hunt would be (although some argument could be made that the threshold could be more than 6 years). Sam Perrett would not be. Cayless not sure, I don't know when he moved to Australia, although given he played for Wentworthville and attended school in Parramatta it's likely he would be.

Cayless was born in NSW to New Zealander parents.

He has always considered himself a KIWI.

 

[hutch]

If they change the rules so SOO is just Aust born players. It will stop alot of probs

why, you dont have to be born in this country to be australian, it just wouldnt work like that.

 

[hutch]

Geoff Carr is a dinosaur administrator who needs to find a rocking chair and fishing rod already!
No wonder QLD have dominated origin for the last 5 years, unbelievable this clown still has any impute in any matters rugby league.
Morons like this are the reason why the independent commission is so important to the future of our game.
This old tosser has agendas and conflicts of interest....
Poo bag still has his panties in a twist because the Raiders will continue links to South’s Logan next year and won’t enter a team in the NSW cup.
I bet he still cries at night because QLD picked Folou after he defected to AFL...
f**k him and f**k the NSWRL....
It was all good for Hayne to represent Fiji or whoever it was a few years ago and then play origin and now for Aus.
But because its Vidot suddenly this Carr scum bag decided things need to change, yeeeeeah right, ok than.

agree on the geoff carr summary, he is a dinosaur who is holding the game back.

as for hayne, you do realise he played for australia first right? and that he only picked fiji after he missed out on the australian team for the world cup. he should never have been allowed to switch to fiji, what good has it done them in the long run, especially after hayne switched straight back to australia after the world cup. and for those asking how this is different to vidot and maguire be allowed to switch back to qld and australia next year, these genius's at the arl/rlif have implemented a rule that all eligibilities are wiped after the world cup and a new cycle is started.

 

[Springs]

That long run is uh, two years now?
And I'd say it got them a semi-final spot for the first time in their history, a 4th place in the World Rankings and raised awareness of the game in Fiji.

 

[mikail-eagle]

Can someone explain to me how their case is different from that of Uate ?

Uate played for Fiji last year but is now eligible to play for NSW next year.

This 2 play for Samoa this year but won't be eligible for QLD next year.

:?

 

[hutch]

The problem with the eligibility rules as they stand is that they create situations where one team is strengthend at the expense of another.

Chose this, cant choose that.

What the people are proposing that want a change to the eligibilty rules is a situation where the strongest possible teams can be fielded in as many arenas as possible.

Where you were born, what age you arrived here at etc is all just bullsh*t designed to create artificially strong teams in certain situations.

Origin should be about where you grew up.

International eligibilty should be about your roots.

Why one should be reliant on the other is a complete mystery. It's only the case now because power broking factions have decided that is what suits them the best - not the game.

If these rules were in place to protect the game I could understand it, but they're not. They are in place to protect one thing and one thing alone - the Kangaroo's win loss record. Is that really worth killing the rest of the game for? If it is, then please explain why Australia winning every game is more important than growing Rugby League.

If you can do that I'll be happy to listen.

the thing is, this samoan team is being artificially strengthened by players who would rather being playing for australia. in 2 years time if these players are good enough and they if apply to switch to australia all you lot will be whinging and saying that we steal other countries players, when they probably wanted to play for australia all along and only played for samoa knowing they could switch back. i hope this isnt the case, i hope they are playing for samoa for the right reasons and not taking the place of somebody who wants to represent their country. they should know they are committing to the country, not just turning up because it sounds good. this is why much stronger rules, either 1 year for life or a 4-5 year stand down period with no exceptions is the answer.

everybody is blaming origin and saying that players should play for another country and not be counted out of origin blah blah blah. yes, the rules are different for state of origin and for test teams, but if the arl only wants players who are available for their national team to play in their state of origin rep game then they have every right to. yes, origin is a prestigious game in australia which attracts players and may have tempted some players with dual nationality to play for australia, but the answer to this is to make other countries also attractive to play for by having meaningful games during the middle of the year when origin is on. as it stands, the only non australian to play origin is craig smith during super league. lam was allowed to play for png as well as origin because it was deemed appropriate at that time, he moved here when he was 7 and has dual nationality.
its not stealing other countries players at all, its the current rules which are weakening countries such as tonga, fiji and samoa because players are allowed to play for them without really committing to them. it may look good in the short term but it doing nothing for long term development. i dont want quick fixes by stacking all these teams full of aussies and kiwis, i want long term development with players representing their country with pride, players who know they wont want to play for a different country in a couple of years time.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Don't see how people can think that allowing players to represent Origin and another nation is a positive. Its a farce if that were to happen.

Origin is owned by the ARL, the ARL's purpose is too look after the Kangaroos. Not Samoa, not PNG, not anyone else but the Kangaroos. They dont have to change their Origin eligibility rules so that players can play in our system

If a player is eligible for more then one nation, the ARL are allowed to select him. Origin is their bargaining chip and it works a charm.

The problem here is the eligibility rules themselves, and while I dont really have a problem with the rules mostly, the only thing I do not accept is players being able to switch nations.

People need to realise that State of Origin is a representative match, representative of where you are from.

Question for the Poms out there, who would Gareth Widdop represent, Yorkshire or Lancashire, or neither? And how would you feel if he played for one then went on to play for Australia?

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Widdop is from Yorkshire. But they don't have Origin games in England anymore because they were a complete failure.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Widdop is from Yorkshire. But they don't have Origin games in England anymore because they were a complete failure.

Not my point.

 

[deluded pom?]

Question for the Poms out there, who would Gareth Widdop represent, Yorkshire or Lancashire, or neither? And how would you feel if he played for one then went on to play for Australia?

In all honesty TEZZA I'd be pi$$ed off if Widdop played for Yorkshire and then played for Australia. The thing I dislike is the Uate case where under the current rules he is simply NOT available to declare himself for selection for anyone other than Fiji because he played for them in 2009. He is not eligible to switch until November 2011 but somehow the RLIF have rubber stamped his switch whilst the ARL, who were pushing for the switch, falied to select Uate for the Australian 4N squad. That was their prerogative but it just says to me that Uate's switch is for the benefit of NSW NOT Australia and a huge blow to Fiji.

 

[deluded pom?]

Not my point.

ECT never fails to do a bit of Pom bashing whenever the occasion arises. Or not arises, he doesn't care. He may be Phil Gould for all I know.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

ECT never fails to do a bit of Pom bashing whenever the occasion arises. Or not arises, he doesn't care. He may be Phil Gould for all I know.

If England had an Origin series like ours it would have to come up with its own rules for eligibility to deal with players who want to play for Lancashire and Ireland for example. But England doesn't have this issue because the Origin was rubbish.

 

[hutch]

In all honesty TEZZA I'd be pi$$ed off if Widdop played for Yorkshire and then played for Australia. The thing I dislike is the Uate case where under the current rules he is simply NOT available to declare himself for selection for anyone other than Fiji because he played for them in 2009. He is not eligible to switch until November 2011 but somehow the RLIF have rubber stamped his switch whilst the ARL, who were pushing for the switch, falied to select Uate for the Australian 4N squad. That was their prerogative but it just says to me that Uate's switch is for the benefit of NSW NOT Australia and a huge blow to Fiji.

the uate situation is a joke, on what grounds have the rlif (arl) allowed him to switch not even a year after playing for fiji? he should be locked into fiji anyway, but even with our pathetic rules he still isnt eligible until november 2011 which rules him out of next years origin as well if the arl insist on having origin players eligible for australia.

 

[RedVee]

If Vidot chooses to play for Samoa knowing that it means he can't play Origen (for a while) - well that is fair enough.
A hell of a lot of people on this site have been saying that there should be a 'one country only' rule, and yet when it seems they are following that dictate there are still complaints?
I'd suggest Vidot probably wants to stick to Samoa for the next RLWC and then switch if that rule stays in.

As far as Origen being only for those that declare for Australia, well that too is fair enough. How is that different to the ARU & NZRU only picking reps from their Super teams? perhaps allow that for only minnow countries - ie not England and NZ, but yes to PNG, France, Pacific Island declared players. But is that discrimination against Poms & Kiwis?

 

[Didgi]

Some people need to take a good hard look at the facts and base their argument on the good of the international game rather than their own opinion.

- QLD/NSW selection is more lucrative than playing for Tonga, Fiji etc.
- Outside of the big three, IRL is a farce. Teams are ripped apart by their good players electing to play for Aus or NZ.
- Players will almost always choose possible state selection over definite minnow selection.
So, how about we make it if you choose to play for your country you cant play state, and vice versa? Oh wait..... Answer: seeing as they are going to choose to be eligible for their state over country, separate origin and international eligibility. Allow Costigan to play for PNG. Allow Vidot to play for Samoa and still be eligible for QLD.

This a) gives the kids what they would choose anyway - a chance at SOO selection
b ) strengthens international rugby league by having SOO standard players playing for the smaller countries.

Obviously not everyone would be eligible for a state, but that stops the conflicts, bolsters international rugby league, and will be seen as the better option for the individual player.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Some people need to take a good hard look at the facts and base their argument on the good of the international game rather than their own opinion.

- QLD/NSW selection is more lucrative than playing for Tonga, Fiji etc.
- Outside of the big three, IRL is a farce. Teams are ripped apart by their good players electing to play for Aus or NZ.
- Players will almost always choose possible state selection over definite minnow selection.
So, how about we make it if you choose to play for your country you cant play state, and vice versa? Oh wait..... Answer: seeing as they are going to choose to be eligible for their state over country, separate origin and international eligibility. Allow Costigan to play for PNG. Allow Vidot to play for Samoa and still be eligible for QLD.

This a) gives the kids what they would choose anyway - a chance at SOO selection
b ) strengthens international rugby league by having SOO standard players playing for the smaller countries.

Obviously not everyone would be eligible for a state, but that stops the conflicts, bolsters international rugby league, and will be seen as the better option for the individual player.

Not always. You will find that they choose the "minnow" nations because they dont think they will make it to Origin level. Feleti Mateo for example. This can simply be countered by saying "one nation for life"

If it was one nation for life, Mateo would never be able to play for NSW or Qld. Im sure there would be other examples of similar situations.

 

[Didgi]

So what you're saying is give the minnow nations the dregs who aren't good enough to make origin, and not allow the ones good enough to play origin to play for their nation of heritage.

How does that strengthen IRL?

 

[Springs]

If there ever are mid-season rep weekends and there are pacific island tests played on the same weekend as Origin, think about it. Either Tonga will play Samoa at Parramatta Stadium or at a tiny ground in either country, or they will play as a curtain raiser to the Origin match. All this while the entire country's attention will be on the Origin match. Players will still choose Origin over their nation of heritage. I don't see how having 'rep weekends' with minnows playing will entice them anymore than having meaningful tests at the end of the year like there are now.
It's a pretty simple solution for strengthening the pacific islands. Separate Origin from tests.

And didn't Gareth Widdop play for the NSW Residents side or something? And then played for England? Why is it only representing the state at Origin level that ties you to your country? In fact how did Uate represent the Australian Prime Minister's XIII when he was not eligible? Don't give me that crap about it's just an invitational side it doesn't mean anything etc. He still wore the green and gold, played in a team called Australia, and represented the country on foreign soil against another nation.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

So what you're saying is give the minnow nations the dregs who aren't good enough to make origin, and not allow the ones good enough to play origin to play for their nation of heritage.

How does that strengthen IRL?

No, im saying that once a player plays a test for his nation, he plays for that nation for life. Again I use Feleti Mateo as an example.

That way, a guy like Robbie Farah or Hazem El Masri would never have played Origin, Lebanon would be much stronger. Antonio Kaifusi would never have played for Queensland and only played for Tonga, Vagana would never have played for NZ just Samoa, Fui Fui would never have played for NZ just Tonga.

If anything, your "solution" would make it more of a farce. Sure it keeps all the players happy being able to play for who ever they want, but its more then the players.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

And didn't Gareth Widdop play for the NSW Residents side or something? And then played for England? Why is it only representing the state at Origin level that ties you to your country? In fact how did Uate represent the Australian Prime Minister's XIII when he was not eligible? Don't give me that crap about it's just an invitational side it doesn't mean anything etc. He still wore the green and gold, played in a team called Australia, and represented the country on foreign soil against another nation.

Like it or not, any rep match below NRL level is just a developmental tool. SBW played for the NSWU19's.

And the PMXIII, NZ Maori, the Indigenous All Stars, etc etc, ARE invitational and represent heritage, not a nation.

To you, just because they wore green and gold does not mean they are Australian.