George rose

[gypsy]

It wasn't a reflex criticism of BBC. He rates Rose, but doesn't rate Foran. I think the exact opposite in this example. it's just difference of opinion.
No need to panic Fruitbasket.

 

[Dr Fruitbasket Returns]

I don't understand people downing Vidot. Last year we were one injury away from peni tagive - Vidot is approximately 8 times the player peni is.

I'm definitely not dissing Vidot. I think he was a smart buy and I'm hoping he'll come good. I'm not even really dissing Bronx. I just think that, at his age, he's a solid back up player and that's about it.

All I'm saying is that K.Stanley, Nightingale, C.Stanley, Cooper, Morris, Soward & Hornby looks like a back line that can push for the top four. But given the treatment room records of the Stanley brothers and Coops (and even BMoz going back to the Brown years) I'd feel more confident about our chances if we had one more first grade standard option to choose from. If we lose one of the top seven for the season and Vidot doesn't rise to the challenge the cupboard seems a bit bare. It's what we wanted Moltzen for.

 

[Cagey Mac]

I'm definitely not dissing Vidot. I think he was a smart buy and I'm hoping he'll come good. I'm not even really dissing Bronx. I just think that, at his age, he's a solid back up player and that's about it.

All I'm saying is that K.Stanley, Nightingale, C.Stanley, Cooper, Morris, Soward & Hornby looks like a back line that can push for the top four. But given the treatment room records of the Stanley brothers and Coops (and even BMoz going back to the Brown years) I'd feel more confident about our chances if we had one more first grade standard option to choose from. If we lose one of the top seven for the season and Vidot doesn't rise to the challenge the cupboard seems a bit bare. It's what we wanted Moltzen for.

I rate Vidot as highly as Chase (at least) but happy to be proven wrong
Bronx if fit is also NRL standard IMO
Cummins untested but there if needed
King at 1/2 and Hornby to the FB or centre in an emergency
Then there's Scott to right centre but not quite enough pace methinks
Agreed, we are a bit thin, given relative medical histories....let's see how we go.

 

[The Nick]

Goodwin is definitely NRL standard, and way to good to be playing park football. If we don't make him a regular in the starting 13 next year, then I think we will need to move him on in 2013, as other clubs will be offering him a lot more money than what we're paying him.

Personally I'd love to see him stay. Despite his injuries, I thought in the few opportunities he was given he tried his absolute guts out, not to mention all the good work he did for the club off the field over the last 2 years. I believe he is genuine in his desire to wear and represent the Red V with pride.

 

[dubopov]

rose is a f**king gumby ..

 

[The Nick]

rose is a f**king gumby ..

Nah gumby is more of an ectomorph, whereas Rose is an extreme endomorph.

 

[Mr Red]

I rate Vidot as highly as Chase (at least) but happy to be proven wrong

thats like saying "i have as much respect for you now as i always have"...

 

[Cagey Mac]

thats like saying "i have as much respect for you now as i always have"...

You may have a point there.. except I’m on the record as having rated Chase pretty highly, essentially on some past performances but also the fact that Bellamy rated him as a starting centre over Beau Champion. I reckon that Vidot will prove to be as tough as teak and will surprise the hell out of everyone when given the opportunity. So to qualify… I rate them both highly

 

[watatank]

to be fair...
- during the late 80's early 90's our recruitment was a shambles..
Brian smith came in 1991 a made some very astute purchases (mark coyne and wayne Bartrim spring to mind - two young players with a heap of potential and rep footy written all over them)
David Waite and Farrar signed some top class players... during the 90's - Jamie Ainscough and Darren Treacy spring to mind
during the brown era we did slip back into some very "dubious" signings... although the core of the squad was top class
Wayne Bennett has once again righted the ship....
although not totally happy with our recruitment for next season i am still giving Price a season to prove himself..

i still think we need:
1 ball playing forward
1 or 2 mongrels in the pack
some more depth in the halves

tbh I was commenting mainly when Brown was coach. i think you've contradicted yourself a little saying that we had dubious signings under Brown...as you say, we had a strong squad so was there ever much need to recruit?

as for Bennett, he may have righted the ship in terms of getting us that elusive premiership but what people now lament in terms of recruitment actually is in part due to him...compare the depth we had a few years ago in both NRL and Toyota Cup squads and what we have now...it's not the same.

 

[Father Ted]

Doing what for years?

Sorry I'll make it simple. They have been helping themselves to other clubs best players for more years then you can remember.

 

[Father Ted]

room for a fat bastard sitting on the bench. ...:sarcasm:

Leave me out of this

 

[Mr Red]

You may have a point there.. except I’m on the record as having rated Chase pretty highly, essentially on some past performances but also the fact that Bellamy rated him as a starting centre over Beau Champion. I reckon that Vidot will prove to be as tough as teak and will surprise the hell out of everyone when given the opportunity. So to qualify… I rate them both highly

one thing for certain - from what i have seen of Vidot, he displays a genuine bit of mongrel and agression, and is a big lump of a lad. definitely the aggression is what is needed in our backline, only cooper displays this at the moment.

 

[Cagey Mac]

one thing for certain - from what i have seen of Vidot, he displays a genuine bit of mongrel and agression, and is a big lump of a lad. definitely the aggression is what is needed in our backline, only cooper displays this at the moment.

It would be interesting to see him playing right centre against Manly against Matai

 

[TheRev]

Rose is not a played id want, he will always be pushing s*** uphill with his weight, and that cheap-shot..

Im not convinced on Foran either, he seems like a workman like player (much like a younger Hornby), but I think Cherry-Evans is the spark in Manlys attack (based on all 2 of Manlys games that I have seen).

 

[Tommax25]

Sorry I'll make it simple. They have been helping themselves to other clubs best players for more years then you can remember.

Ok, list recent players Manly signed from other clubs please, and then narrow it down to first first graders before arriving, and then even further to the superstars that they poached.

I can If you have to go back to the 80's or further don't bother, because its 2011, so who gives a shit what happened before the NRL even existed. I think I'd find more signings for the Dragons in recent seasons tbh, and superstars at that.

 

[gypsy]

Rose is not a played id want, he will always be pushing s*** uphill with his weight, and that cheap-shot..

Im not convinced on Foran either, he seems like a workman like player (much like a younger Hornby), but I think Cherry-Evans is the spark in Manlys attack (based on all 2 of Manlys games that I have seen).

As I said before it's as much about balance as anything. Soward's our spark, he needs a workman like player in my opinion, someone to steer the side around and allow Soward to
play his natural game. Don't for a second underestimate Hornby's part in Soward's origin jersey.

 

[gypsy]

Ok, list recent players Manly signed from other clubs please, and then narrow it down to first first graders before arriving, and then even further to the superstars that they poached.

The following had played First Grade at the very least for other clubs, before being signed by Manly.

Michael Robertson (Raiders)
Jamie Lyon (Parramatta, St Helens, NSW and Australia before arriving)
Brent Kite (Dragons, NSW before arriving)
Michael Monaghan (Canberra)
Joe Gulavao (Auckland, Penrith, Souffs, Parramatta, Samoa and New Zealand before arriving)
Tony Williams (Parramatta and Tonga before arriving)
George Rose (Roosters)
Ben Farrar (Cowboys)
Shane Rodney (Penrith)
Chris Bailey (Newcastle)
Heath L'Estrange (Roosters)
David Vaealiki (Parramatta, Wigan)
Josh Perry (Newcastle, Country and NSW before arriving)
Glenn Hall (Canterbury, Souffs, Roosters before arriving)
Steven Bell (Melbourne)
Ben Kennedy (Canberra, Newcastle, Country, NSW and Australia before arriving)
Michael Witt (Parramatta)
Andrew Walker (Dragons, Roosters, Australia *Dual* before arriving)
Chris Hicks (Penrith, Country before arriving)
Luke Williamson (Adelaide *lol*, Canberra)
Matt Orford (he did play 11 games at Northern(Gosford) Eagles though, before moving to Melbourne where he played 120 games and became a City rep)

There are a LOT more, this is just a quick glance.
Watch much footy?

LOL@EAGL3Z

 

[gypsy]

Is that sufficient Tommax25? If not, let me know as there's a lot more.

 

[Tommax25]

The following had played First Grade at the very least for other clubs, before being signed by Manly.

Michael Robertson (Raiders) Agreed
Jamie Lyon (Parramatta, St Helens, NSW and Australia before arriving) Agreed
Brent Kite (Dragons, NSW before arriving) Agreed
Michael Monaghan (Canberra) Agreed
Joe Gulavao (Auckland, Penrith, Souffs, Parramatta, Samoa and New Zealand before arriving)Unwanted/journeyman. Take your pick
Tony Williams (Parramatta and Tonga before arriving) Agreed
George Rose (Roosters) Unwanted
Ben Farrar (Cowboys) Unwanted/ was a player swap.
Shane Rodney (Penrith) Unwanted, or at least they let him go without a fight due to his injury record
Chris Bailey (Newcastle) Agreed (and lol@us for that one)
Heath L'Estrange (Roosters) Unwanted/unused
David Vaealiki (Parramatta, Wigan) lol
Josh Perry (Newcastle, Country and NSW before arriving) Agreed to an extent but to be fair this was during Newcastle’s big cleanout, they wanted him out
Glenn Hall (Canterbury, Souffs, Roosters before arriving) Journeyman
Steven Bell (Melbourne) Agreed
Ben Kennedy (Canberra, Newcastle, Country, NSW and Australia before arriving) Agreed, but didn’t they voluntarily agree to release him to try and retain other players?
Michael Witt (Parramatta) Unwanted
Andrew Walker (Dragons, Roosters, Australia *Dual* before arriving) Wasn’t that Northern Eagles days? I said recent in any case.
Chris Hicks (Penrith, Country before arriving) Unwanted, not 100% on that but I know Rooney and Lewis were the nailed on wingers for Penrith right before he signed for Manly
Luke Williamson (Adelaide *lol*, Canberra) Journeyman
Matt Orford (he did play 11 games at Northern(Gosford) Eagles though, before moving to Melbourne where he played 120 games and became a City rep) Agreed on the big name aspect of the signing but as you say originally was at our club/merged club

There are a LOT more, this is just a quick glance.
Watch much footy?

LOL@EAGL3Z

So by my count Manly have signed regular first graders whose clubs, in ideal situations, would have kept (and assuming these players didn’t sign at another club if Manly pulled their offer). Lyon signed from the super league, hardly weakening the NRL, he was fair game anyone could have a go at him. Kennedy was granted a release or at least allowed to move on in favour of retaining other members of the squad. Same with Perry.


So really its 7 players who Manly have realistically ‘stolen’ from their previous clubs, be it a better offer or promise of first-grade or whatever. And of those 7 2 were hardly superstars, Manly and Des made them better than they were before they came.


So 7 only since Des took over. In an 8 year period he’s ‘stolen’ 7 players. I hardly think thats a high number compared to some other teams, for example the dogs, the roosters, the titans (understandably but still), souths, the eels, the cowboys to a lesser degree than those. And thats not mentioning coaches, where I’ve seen all kinds of poaching , dodgy dealings, and bad blood going on.


EVERYBODY signs players, its cyclical. If you have a bad few seasons you buy better players. The tigers just splashed out Blair, you guys did it in the past with Boyd and Smith (among others), the sharks did with Carney, Penrith did with Petero, Cowboys with JT ect ect. Journeyman/unwanted players change clubs all the time looking for opportunities. Unless you want to have a 'pure' comp with only the Broncos, Dragons, Raiders, Parra, and Penrith playing their juniors and no-one signing anyone elses players then you have to accept that players will sign elsewhere for the chances they aren't getting from their original club. Like Soward, like Wolfman, like Friend. Imagine if Melbourne re-signed Orford and they kept Cronk on the bench/out of the team for another two seasons or so? They would've regreted it massively if they had, BOTH clubs benefited from Orford moving on.



As long as you forget about stuff that happened decades ago, Manly have been one of the better sides in the signing/poaching regard recently. They’ve shaped up in that regard, massively.

 

[gypsy]

So really its 7 players who Manly have realistically ‘stolen’ from their previous clubs, be it a better offer or promise of first-grade or whatever.

Mmm, no it's a lot more than that, but whatever makes you feel better :lol: