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Willow

Assistant Moderator
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110,058
lol... Don't you dare.
emdgust.gif

 
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419
Weren't you using it earlier as proof that the earth is billions of years old?
Carbon dating? No, never, not at any stage. But I can give you a whole littany of evidence reagarding the age of the universe if you want to go down that track though :)



 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
Ialso had a milestone post way back on Plane crashes into WTC, 300 or 400 or maybe higher. Can anyone top that?
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
From the website I posted above: <dd>Darwin's theory is like a tree. The budding twigs may represent existing species, and those produced during each former year, may represent the long succession of extinct species. These branches may be subspecies, and moving down the branch towards the trunk, an extinct species. "As buds give rise by growth, to fresh buds, and these, if vigorous branch out and overtop on a feebler branch, so by generation, I ( Darwin ) believe it has been with the great Tree of Life which fills with its dead and broken branches, the crust of the earth and covers the surface with its ever branching and beautiful ramifications." <dd>Darwin's theory embraced that the strongest and fittest survived and the weakest died. Under Darwin's theory the animals and humans of today evolved from subspecies and they from an extinct species. This would require from the trunk to the tip of the branches many millions of years. Evolutionists claim it would take 50 million years or so for a fish creature to evolve to a amphibian ( walking creature). <dd>Evolutionists are moving in a time frame established by Dr. Hubble ( the space telescope is named after him ) of 5 Billion years.This would allow more than sufficient time for the transition of species and to fill in all the lost missing links. <dd>A few years ago another theory was put forward. This is the Big Bang theory. Under the big bang theory, a single molecule explodes, and creates more molecules, and ever increasing, creating more. This means that everything you see, and far beyond was created by this one single molecule. This is a continuous non stop process. A single molecule requires a powerful microscope to be able to see it. <dd>We now have 2 different theory's going on at the same time, each trying to out do the other. With the Hubble telescope as of Dec. 1998, they claim the universe is 12 Billion light years old, and rapidly growing. Light travels at 186,000 miles per second, so I'll let you figure that out. <dd>Before the death of Charles Darwin, he wrote, "As by this theory innumerable transition forms must have existed. Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?" After many years of research Darwin was questioning his theory. <dd>No link has ever been found that will support the theory of evolution, yet it is taught in our schools. Still as Darwin said, there should be many links from crawling to man. </dd>
<dd>Before man set foot on the moon, scientists feared the moon dust could be 20 or more feet deep. They feared that it could even be so deep that the space landing craft could be lost. In actual fact they only found it was about 3 inches deep. With thousands of impacts, and this small amount of dust indicates a young moon, not one the evolutionists have dated at 4.5 billion years old. Material returned from the moon had short lived isotopes, and gave off radiation. If this material were from an old moon, the isotopes would have been long since dead. <dd>When Hubble stated 5 billion years were required, no real research had been done, and everything had been assumed since then, with no real proof. The dating system used today assumes this. Uranium 238 has a half life cycle of 4.5 billion years. The decaying of this material produces helium, therefore if the earth is very old, a large amount of helium would be present, when in fact it is very rare. Another method of measuring is carbon 14 with a half life cycle of 5730 years. How can you measure or date anything millions or billions of years old using carbon 14? Yet this is the most common method used. <dd>When the Hubble space telescope was launched, one of its first major jobs was to measure or find out how many red dwarfs there were in the universe. These measurement were made over a period of a year. The data was not released to the public because it did not fit what was assumed. Scientists spend much time double checking the data and their figures. The problem being that Hubble numbering data was way out of what was expected. In time a low level news conference was called, and Todd Lowe of the national Optical Astronomy Observatory in Arizona, released the data. Quote, " We know this was a shocking result. That is why we spent over a year trying to debunk it ourselves before we went public". One commentator states, "what is happening is that the data fits a young universe. Now when I say a young universe, I really mean a young universe. I mean a Biblical young universe of the order of 10,000 years or less". </dd>
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,058
"After many years of research Darwin was questioning his theory. "
So what? Fair dinkum... he was a scientist and it was in his nature to ask questions...even about his own studies. Subsequent researchers and scientists have also developed past thewritten conclusions of Charles Darwin.
btw, this an old point that has done the rounds for decades and is nothing new.

"No link has ever been found that will support the theory of evolution, yet it is taught in our schools. "
This writer is questioning the righteousness of teaching theory of evolution in schools and let me guess, replace it with creationist theory only?
I read once that there is a push in the USA to have evolution banned from the schoolcurriculum and that this banning has been successful in some states.

Schools in Australia have both theories in the classroom... even Catholic schools.This allowsyoung students to maketheir ownchoice. What's the author's problem with kids being exposed to evolution theory? Does he believe it to be evil?
Personally, I have no problem with my kids gong to Scripture classes.

"When the Hubble space telescope was launched, one of its first major jobs was to measure or find out how many red dwarfs there were in the universe. These measurement were made over a period of a year. The data was not released to the public because it did not fit what was assumed. Scientists spend much time double checking the data and their figures. The problem being that Hubble numbering data was way out of what was expected."
I have a problem with the writer on this as well. The fact is that the Hubble telescope had some pretty serious technical gliches after it was launched and Astronauts in a shuttle had to actually go up and set it right.
The writer fails to mention this.

The author acts like an authority but is engaging in school room debate tacticsto put across some less than valid points. Unfortunately, a light scratch beneaththe surface bringsthe whole essay into question.

Overall,a little bit of balance would have given him more credibility points.
 
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The data was not released to the public because it did not fit what was assumed.
If it wasn't released how does he know it did not fit. I reckon this is the same guy who believes the Sphinx was built on Mars by the pagans ;)
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
I read once that there is a push in the USA to have evolution banned from the schoolcurriculum and that this banning has been successful in some states.
Schools in Australia have both theories in the classroom... even Catholic schools.This allowsyoung students to maketheir ownchoice. What's the author's problem with kids being exposed to evolution theory? Does he believe it to be evil? Personally, I have no problem with my kids gong to Scripture classes.

I applaud what they do in Aus. Here and in the US (though each state and province has its own school system) only evolution is taught. Except in Catholic schools,t here is no bible reading or stories, Christmas plays are not allowed, (in fact some people want to eliminate the words Christmas and Easter from the names of the corresponding school holidays), and religious discussion in general is frowned upon.
In the cases you mention in the US, Willow, they were just trying to get creation science taught alongside evolution, as an alternative.

 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,058
Fair enough Steve. But it still begs the question what problem the author has with evolution being taught in school.

Although I'm an Atheist, I don't press this on my own children. As long as thesciences are taught at school,I'm comfortable with them learning about religion as well. IMO, it teaches them how to think deeply about things and as long the teachersdon't give them nightmares I'm happy as Larry.

Generally speaking, scripture classes are non-denominational but teach things from a Christian perspective. It depends on the pupil numbers but there are also classes available for other faiths such as Muslims, Hindus and I think they have a small Buddhist class in our local school... I understand thatBuddhism the fastest growing religion in Australia.
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
I think the problem the author has is that evolution is taught as an absolute fact, when it should be presented as a theory.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,058
CS: "I think the problem the author has is that evolution is taught as an absolute fact, when it should be presented as a theory."

Does he? Well he doesnt explain it like that...
"No link has ever been found that will support the theory of evolution, yet it is taught in our schools. "

Sorry mate but he lets himself down on a number of points, astouchedonin posts # 706 and 707 above.


 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
From my post 705, no one has addressed the points about helium, and the dust on the moon. Also the point of what Darwin actually said, about where are the numerous transitional forms, hasn't been addressed.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,058
Ummm sorry, I can't really comment on helium and dust on the moon because I don't know the background. The concern I have with this bloke is that he is passing himself off as an expert and an authority and he isn't... so anything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

With my limited knowledge, I could see that he was wrong on some points and contradicting himself elsewhere... and I'm no expert.Its clear to me that he peddling a few old tales and only publishing one side of the story.

He has a problem with the theory of evolution being taught in schools when he said, "No link has ever been found that will support the theory of evolution, yet it is taught in our schools. " - these are the words of an ignoramus.

His issue with the Hubble telescope was his final downfall. He failed to mention the technical problemsthat the project was enduring and he made the glaringcontradiction of saying, "The data was not released to the public because it did not fit what was assumed. "
As Rasputin pointed out, "If it wasn't released how does he know it did not fit. "

I doubt very much if he would lastfive minutes in a forum like this. Steve, I can't put it lightly so I'll cut to the chase... I reckon you sell yourself short reading that garbage. No offence offcourse. IMO, you're more articulate than the writer you have referenced.

Naturally, its entirely your choice if want to go into bat for this guy but imo, he's a tosser.
 
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Ummm sorry, I can't really comment on helium and dust on the moon because I don't know the background.
Willow, I didn't bother responding on that beforebecause I thought the guy wasa total tosser.

All natural gas contains at least trace quantities of helium and itis not rare at all costing something like 1.5c per cubic foot, rather cheap. It is an important component in both the proton-proton reaction and the carbon cycle and the helium content of the atmosphere is somewhere around1 part in 200,000.The fusion of hydrogen into helium provides the energy of the hydrogen bomb.It is used every day such common things asgas baloons, arc welding,diving tanks and most refrigerants. As thegas giants in our solar system are basically 90% helium I have no idea just what point he was trying to make.

There is nothing unusual about 3 inches of dust on the moon.Having no atmosphere and being subject to cosmic wind clouds and consideringit's low mass, producing a very small magnetic field, it's actually quite surprising there's any there at all.

While we're at it I may as deal with this wondrous assertion he made;
Another method of measuring is carbon 14 with a half life cycle of 5730 years. How can you measure or date anything millions or billions of years old using carbon 14? Yet this is the most common method used.
C14 dating is NOT and has NEVER been used to measure anything older than a few thousand years. Furthermore we have never found any fossilised specimens, ie things were once alive, dating back billions of years so we couldn't have used it anyway. If he is purporting that C14 dating is used to measure rocks then it just shows how stupid he is, C14 can only be used to date once living organisms.

No link has ever been found that will support the theory of evolution, yet it is taught in our schools.
No link has ever been found that will support the theory of creation yet it is taught in our schools. What's his point?

one of its first major jobs was to measure or find out how many red dwarfs there were in the universe
That is laughable. Firstly, it is not possible to measure the number of anything in the Universe, it is way too big and we have no idea how far it extends beyond what we can see. Secondly, the guy obviouslydoesn't know what a red dwarf is or what it represents.

Quite frankly the guy is an idiot and undersing of a response.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,058
Rasputin: I looked atsite that Canadian Steve referenced the 'article' from.

Its a badly put together website which is no big deal but it has this little gem on the main page:
"Counters have proved to be unreliable, often down and failing to count all the hits. After nearly 4 years and over 125,000 hits the counter has been removed."
Counters are not unreliable if they are done right.
What he has done instead is asked us all to take his word for itthat he has had over 125,000 hits... anumber designed to impress us. Methinks an honest counter would reveal something different.

One last thing... I couldn't find anything on the site which names the author(s). I didnt read every article but it does look like he prefers to remain anonymous.

Unfortunately I spent time looking at the site and will have to be more wary in future. Thats 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

 
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BTW, of course unlike the author of that site I have noidea what data they didn't release, but the data they did certainly throws cold water over hisattempts at misinformation;:)

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/2002/10/
Pushing the limits of its powerful vision, NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has uncovered the oldest burned-out stars in our Milky Way Galaxy. These extremely old, dim stars provide a completely independent reading of the universe's age without relying on measurements of the universe's expansion. The ancient white dwarf stars, as seen by Hubble, turn out to be 12 to 13 billion years old. Because earlier Hubble observations show that the first stars formed less than 1 billion years after the universe's birth in the big bang, finding the oldest stars puts astronomers well within arm's reach of calculating the absolute age of the universe.

PS, please not that it is only looking at our young little Galaxy, not the universe.

 

imported_JoeD

Juniors
Messages
653
Continuing on the recentreligious themes heres a new question : Does anyone know anything about scientology? I hear of it all the time but know absolutely nothing about it besides its popularity in hollywood.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,058
JoeD:
http://www.scientology.org/
Not just in Hollywood but a few footballers are into it as well.
Pat Jarvis's home page:
http://www.myhomepage.org/patjarvis/

Did you ever see that John Travolta movie , Battlefield Earth. ? Its based on a book by LRon Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.
It is without a doubt a terrible movie and up there with the worst movies of all time. It'll be a classic one day I 'm sure.

They used to approach young people around Railway Square in Sydney, drag them off to some room and give them a written or aural'test'. Naturally, you would fail this test and they would offer solutions... scientology solutions. That seems to be main method thye use of gaining new followers.

 

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