Greatest kiwi 17

[Wheeled Warrior]

SJ for the Kiwis in 2014 & 2015 was the best player in international rugby league in the NRL era and it wasnt even close. Nobody has eclipsed that level of form over 6 or 7 tests against Tier one teams, not even an Australian.

Disregarding origin and club form, purely in the international arena.

Surely everyone can agree with on that?

Shaun was clutch through 2013-2015. More exciting and just had those highlight reel moments.

Stacey was not as exciting but was so much more all-round clever on the field, Stacey also had some dear I say weaker overall team to carry compared to Shaun. This also spans over their NRL teams too.

Both of them were great in their own ways.

 

[Jonty]

The greatest kiwi 17 of all time will be wearing the greatest kiwi RL jersey of all time as well.

 

[Matua]

It has to be SJ & Benji in the half's for me.

Johnson is the only kiwi 7 in my 3 decades of watching the game that had a consistent period of *dominating* Australia. The 2014 & 2015 Aussies (who were absolutely stacked) had no answers. His club form at the time was mixed but he had some genuine 9/10 performances including the 2014 Four Nations Final and 2015 Anzac tests.

Stacey was always good, never great.

Johnson is only just fit to lace up Stacey's boots.

 

[Matua]

Greatest Kiwis Team (NRL 1998 - onwards)

01: Brent Webb.
02: Jamayne Isaako.
03: Joseph Manu.
04: Clinton Toopi.
05: Manu Vatuvei.
06: Benji Marshall.
07: Stacey Jones.
08: Jesse Bromwich.
09: Isaac Luke.
10: Ruben Wiki.
11: Simon Mannering.
12: Briton Nikora.
13: Joseph Tapine.

14: Thomas Leuluai.
15: James Fisher-Harris.
16: Moses Leota.
17: Ali Lauiti'iti.

Coach: Brian (Bluey) McClennan

Greatest Kiwis Team (Pre NRL)

01: Matthew Ridge.
02: Kevin Iro.
03: James Leuluai.
04: Dean Bell.
05: Sean Hoppe.
06: Gene Ngamu.
07: Gary Freeman.
08: Kevin Tamati.
09: Howie Tamati.
10: Quentin Pongia.
11: Hugh McGahan.
12: Mark Graham.
13: Tawera Nikau.

14: Jarrod McCracken.
15: Brent Todd.
16: Mel Cooke.
17: Ron Ackland.

Coach: Graham Lowe.

This is a good way to split it even if I disagree with you on the make up of your teams.

Not sure you can overlook JWH for Leota, hell even Leota over Asotasi is a stretch (not an attack on Leota, he's great).

I'd go Jeremy Smith over Tapine (Tapine hasn't been used as a 13 by the Kiwis that much). Ali or SBW starting over Nikora with the other on the bench. If we were actually picking the best player then that traitorous prick Taumalolo would be at 13.

Isaako looks a bit out of place, of the modern guys he'd be behind Mulitalo. But Rapana would be my pick.

Also RTS and daylight to Webb.

I'd probably go Foran over Leuluai for my back/dummy backup on the bench. Got to have one token Pakeha in every Kiwis team.

I don't really know much about Ackland and Cooke from your pre Warriors era so I'd replace them with Kurt Sorensen and Clayton Friend . My cut off date for this team is mid 70s as I saw most of those players who came through in the 80s.

Filipaina to replace Ngamu.

Anyway, those are changes I'd make for my teams.

 

[Matua]

Coached by Graham Lowe? No, he got sacked. You can't have a sacked coach, so it has to be Kearney.

I'm assuming this is in jest. Kearney without Bennett is just Kidwell.

 

[Blair]

I'm assuming this is in jest. Kearney without Bennett is just Kidwell.

I'd forgotten Bennett was in that 2008 coaching team.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

This is a good way to split it even if I disagree with you on the make up of your teams.

Not sure you can overlook JWH for Leota, hell even Leota over Asotasi is a stretch (not an attack on Leota, he's great).

I'd go Jeremy Smith over Tapine (Tapine hasn't been used as a 13 by the Kiwis that much). Ali or SBW starting over Nikora with the other on the bench. If we were actually picking the best player then that traitorous prick Taumalolo would be at 13.

Isaako looks a bit out of place, of the modern guys he'd be behind Mulitalo. But Rapana would be my pick.

Also RTS and daylight to Webb.

I'd probably go Foran over Leuluai for my back/dummy backup on the bench. Got to have one token Pakeha in every Kiwis team.

I don't really know much about Ackland and Cooke from your pre Warriors era so I'd replace them with Kurt Sorensen and Clayton Friend . My cut off date for this team is mid 70s as I saw most of those players who came through in the 80s.

Filipaina to replace Ngamu.

Anyway, those are changes I'd make for my teams.

I chose players that did well or made a difference wearing the Kiwis jersey rather than based on their NRL or status / reputation overall.

The likes of Taumalolo, RTS, JWH, Foran, SBW and Mulitalo are/were very good in the NRL but not in the Kiwis jumper.

Mulitalo has the time to change my mind.

I agree with you on Rapana, Smith and I feel bad missing the Sorensen brothers and the big O, though, I also overlooked Hiku who always played above expectations when representing the Kiwis.

I blame working on these lists in the early hours in the morning on little sleep lol.

Love the Kiwis and It's criminal we don't have a 3-test series vs. Australia. We look so much stronger now.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Love the Kiwis and It's criminal we don't have a 3-test series vs. Australia. We look so much stronger now.

Given current (and mooted) allegiances, could argue that 3 games against Tonga and Samoa at this year’s Pac Champs will be just as challenging as 3 games vs the Roos.

Get your point though... getting one over Australia in a 3 match series would be more satisfying.

When did we last get the opportunity? not 3 games in a year spread over different events, but an actual standalone 3 test series like the Ashes coming up? I cant even remember...

 

[Blair]

Tank Gordon wouldn't be coach, because despite that great '87 'Neville Nobodies' win at Lang Park his side collapsed in the '88 RLWC Final at Eden Park.

Ditto Bob Bailey, a superb win in Melbourne in '91, but then a collapse in Sydney and Brisbane.

But someone has to be coach. I suppose, technically, it could be Bennett.

 

[Matua]

I chose players that did well or made a difference wearing the Kiwis jersey rather than based on their NRL or status / reputation overall.

The likes of Taumalolo, RTS, JWH, Foran, SBW and Mulitalo are/were very good in the NRL but not in the Kiwis jumper.

Mulitalo has the time to change my mind.

I agree with you on Rapana, Smith and I feel bad missing the Sorensen brothers and the big O, though, I also overlooked Hiku who always played above expectations when representing the Kiwis.

I blame working on these lists in the early hours in the morning on little sleep lol.

Love the Kiwis and It's criminal we don't have a 3-test series vs. Australia. We look so much stronger now.

That's simply not true of those three players, and I also think SBW and the Tongan had a lot of good games for us in their short times. And if we're ruling out players for not playing as many games as they should have then that should rule out Nikau as well. Gave up half a test career over a personal beef.

No need to blame anything, these lists are always fun discussion points, as we all see things a wee bit differently and have our own criteria.

Hiku had that standout game in Brisbane at fullback (2015 maybe?) but I don't remember him being great other times, although I came round to him when others seemed to start disliking him when whoever was the Warriors wing outside him would be at the top of the try scoring charts.

 

[Blair]

Horrific NAS doesn't make the cut, but I'll always appreciate him going hard-out in the haka against the Turncoats in '17. He was a proud Kiwi.

 

[Big Marn]

Lance Hohaia would have to be the super sub wouldnt he?

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Lance Hohaia would have to be the super sub wouldnt he?

Strong shout… not many more versatile than the huntly hurricane. Deserves a spot just for having the best nickname.

 

[Jonty]

Lance Hohaia would have to be the super sub wouldnt he?

Over Henry Paul?

 

[Big Marn]

Over Henry Paul?

Definitely. Plus he converted to Union and played for England....

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

That's simply not true of those three players, and I also think SBW and the Tongan had a lot of good games for us in their short times. And if we're ruling out players for not playing as many games as they should have then that should rule out Nikau as well. Gave up half a test career over a personal beef.

No need to blame anything, these lists are always fun discussion points, as we all see things a wee bit differently and have our own criteria.

Hiku had that standout game in Brisbane at fullback (2015 maybe?) but I don't remember him being great other times, although I came round to him when others seemed to start disliking him when whoever was the Warriors wing outside him would be at the top of the try scoring charts.

Fair play Matua.

JWH always played better at club level. I cannot recall a big game from him donning the Kiwis jersey. He had ticker and did a mean haka but was not the best at international level. He always found another gear or two in the Roosters jersey.

RTS and Foran (mainly due to injuries) had a couple of good game at test level but never really leveled up.

RTS 2013 campaign was good but his and JWH withdrawal from our 2014 campaign where we won the four nations due to fatigue was another factor I took into consideration (Roosters the jerks)

I know lists like these sparks peoples emotions but I guess that's what makes us unique as individuals. I also dismissed a few turn coats that played some good games. Loyalty is an important criteria for me.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Given current (and mooted) allegiances, could argue that 3 games against Tonga and Samoa at this year’s Pac Champs will be just as challenging as 3 games vs the Roos.

Get your point though... getting one over Australia in a 3 match series would be more satisfying.

When did we last get the opportunity? not 3 games in a year spread over different events, but an actual standalone 3 test series like the Ashes coming up? I cant even remember...

I just don't see the rivalry with our pacific brothers as strong as the Aussies.
My hate for the Kangaroos team tops Tonga, Samoa and England lol

 

[JJ]

Simon Mannering gets to pick where he plays. It has to be in the run-on XIII

Much as I love Mannering, I don’t see how he’s in the team.

Much as I dislike McGahan he’s lock, Graham second row and a few ahead of Simon…. Sorensen, Nikau, even McCracken is in the discussion. From those I’ve seen I’d go Sorensen.

Obvioynever saw White but he’s got to be there, and there are likely others.

Stacey is another automatic choice. As is Benji

Left field for bench utility Gary Prohm?

 

[JJ]

Dane O’Hara needs some love, and Roy Christian might be close to automatic

 

[Matua]

I just don't see the rivalry with our pacific brothers as strong as the Aussies.
My hate for the Kangaroos team tops Tonga, Samoa and England lol

I think I hate the Tongans more, due to what you mentioned in your previous post - loyalty.

I forgot about the 2014 withdrawals, but lets be honest lots of players had "withdrawals" due to clubs over the years, and JWH played 33 test matches, and I always thought he gave his best for us. So that's good enough for me. On the props it's weird that Blair isn't getting a mention, as no matter how badly he was going at club level he was a bit Olsen like in that if you put a black jersey on him he'd usually go well.