Hagan has headstart for Eels job

[Eelementary]

May I ask a question to all the pro-Hagan men and women? And it's not meant to be rude or inflammatory - just a fair question which I think should be considered.

"A massive step backwards. From what? Zero Premierships and Finals chokers?"

Now, I cast your mind back to that fateful Ocotber night in 2001. The Super Eels were primed for their first title in 15 years. All that stood in their way was a star-studded Newcastle team.

The opening forty minutes saw the likes of Simpson, Kennedy and Buderus murder us up front. The genius of Johns, together with the athleticism of Tahu and MacDougall, further troubled us. At halftime, we were down - and, most critics would go on to say, out.

Yet the Eels mounted an impressive comeback, and had the match lasted an extra ten minutes, that elsuive title would have been ours to lose. Alas, it wasnt' meant to be.

Now here's the issue - true, the Knights, coached by then-debutant coach Michael Hagan, won the Premiership. Not only that, but they beat one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport to do so.

Naturally, some credit must go to Hagan. He motivated his players to get aggressive in the first half and to over-power us up front. Kudos to him.

However, Brian Smith inspired his team to almost achieve a much more difficult task - to come from behind from a rather sizeable deficit and nearly steal the Knights' thunder.

My issue is this: how much of the 2001 success can be attributed to Michael Hagan?

When you have players with the ability, inspirational value and aggression of the likes of Johns, Buderus, Kennedy and Simpson, can a coach really take credit for the success?

Look at what happened after halftime - the Knights, leading us to nil in the biggest game of the year, relaxed and let us back in. We nearly won the match in the second half.

Neither coach coached brilliantly in that match - it was a tale of two halves. Brian outshone Hagan in the second, and vice versa.

But how important was Hagan to the Knight's win? Was it his coaching brilliance, or was it more a case of the brilliance of Johns, Buderus, Kennedy and co.?

And let's keep Brian out of this - it's a question related to Michael Hagan.

Something to ponder.

 

[Eelementary]

Good news about Hindy and shows that Hazzard has no clue.

Thank you!

The guy is a hack.

 

[The Colonel]

Something to ponder - by all accounts Smith was treating it like "any other game". Hagan had to fire up some front rowers who had been written off as soft - Parsons and Perry and prepare them mentally for a game that wasn't theirs to win by all media accounts.

The mental preparation of both teams in the opening half was plain to see. The second half was dominated by a team that had been the best all year and embarrassed into action.

Also in a one town team it would be easy to be caught up in the hysteria that is the Grand Final week. Plenty of teams have lost because the fans etc have built them up emotionally just for getting them into a GF. To keep the players heads in such a fanatical town is an amazing effort IMO. Much of that does come back to the coach....

 

[Eelementary]

Something to ponder - by all accounts Smith was treating it like "any other game". Hagan had to fire up some front rowers who had been written off as soft - Parsons and Perry and prepare them mentally for a game that wasn't theirs to win by all media accounts.

The mental preparation of both teams in the opening half was plain to see. The second half was dominated by a team that had been the best all year and embarrassed into action.

See, I think that's a player issue.

If I was the coach on that fateful night - heading a team of young players (our average age then was 22.8 or something), I would have takent he exact same approach.

Take it as just another game to take the pressure off.

Players playing under pressure rarely produce their best.

 

[Avenger]

Something to ponder - by all accounts Smith was treating it like "any other game". Hagan had to fire up some front rowers who had been written off as soft - Parsons and Perry and prepare them mentally for a game that wasn't theirs to win by all media accounts.

The mental preparation of both teams in the opening half was plain to see. The second half was dominated by a team that had been the best all year and embarrassed into action.

Also in a one town team it would be easy to be caught up in the hysteria that is the Grand Final week. Plenty of teams have lost because the fans etc have built them up emotionally just for getting them into a GF. To keep the players heads in such a fanatical town is an amazing effort IMO. Much of that does come back to the coach....

Nice one Colonel.

 

[The Colonel]

See, I think that's a player issue.

If I was the coach on that fateful night - heading a team of young players (our average age then was 22.8 or something), I would have takent he exact same approach.

Take it as just another game to take the pressure off.

Players playing under pressure rarely produce their best.

But the thing is it isn't just another game - sure you need to stress to the players that what has worked all year is what got them there and what will help them win it but the magnitude of the event can't just be taken away by playing it as any other game....

 

[Eelementary]

I can understand that point, mate.

My previous post was probably worded incorrectly.

May main cocnern is this:

In the 2001 GF, the Knights, although less-fancied, did have some of the greatest players in the game today at their disposal.

I mean if Kennedy, Buderus and Johns aren't the best in their respective positions (not to mention that back then Tahu was the game's best winger too) [even to this day] then I am just plain ignorant.

We had no such players - not to that extent anyway. Perhaps Hindmarsh - just.

Now we have Hindmarsh as the best second rower in the world (and in my opinion, even the best forward in the game).

But that's it.

I mean, if Hagan's Knights were in trouble, it was always just a simple matter of give it to Kennedy for a massive hit-up, Buderus from dummy half to run, then pass it to Joey and Joey will get you out of trouble.

So Hagan's actual abilities are hard to gauge - he was unsuccessful with the Queensland Origin team, as well.

I have just never fancied him as a good, smart coach.

I would dearly LOVE for him to prove me wrong if he joins us, though, and would support him 100%.

But at this stage I'm nervous about him...

 

[Avenger]

Hagan is as good as here. Let's accept it.

 

[stiffmeister]

Hagan is as good as here. Let's accept it.

Lets glorify Hagan folkes. Respect our likely new coach. The stiff is very happy with the approaches being made to sign him

 

[Eelementary]

Hagan is as good as here. Let's accept it.

I choose to not accept it until it's announced as being true.

Once it does happen, I will stop with my anxiousness and support him 100%.

But until then....

 

[Bigfella]

This year in Origin the coach emphasised how much A Johns brought to the training sessions, and how much he improved them by. How much was he responsible for Newcastle's performance on the night of 2001? Does anyone in the world, anywhere, doubt that if Johns had played for Parra and JT for Newcastle, that the result would have been different? THat is my only concern about attributing premiership success directly to Hagan's overall record as a coach.

Having said that, I belive that one of the most impressive art of Hagan's record is his 2005 season. Yes, they were wooden spooners. Yes, they lost about 100 in a row straight up. But their injury toll and off season drama was as bad as it could have been. Their morale stayed positive, and they finished the season brilliantly. YEs, this coincided with the return of Johns, but the mood in the football team remained positive in the worst circumstances, and they returned to winning football. That says a huge amount for Hagan as a coach.

 

[stiffmeister]

Having said that, I belive that one of the most impressive art of Hagan's record is his 2005 season. Yes, they were wooden spooners. Yes, they lost about 100 in a row straight up. But their injury toll and off season drama was as bad as it could have been. Their morale stayed positive, and they finished the season brilliantly. YEs, this coincided with the return of Johns, but the mood in the football team remained positive in the worst circumstances, and they returned to winning football. That says a huge amount for Hagan as a coach.

Well said, I was about to make a similar comment

 

[The Colonel]

I can understand that point, mate.

My previous post was probably worded incorrectly.

May main cocnern is this:

In the 2001 GF, the Knights, although less-fancied, did have some of the greatest players in the game today at their disposal.

I mean if Kennedy, Buderus and Johns aren't the best in their respective positions (not to mention that back then Tahu was the game's best winger too) [even to this day] then I am just plain ignorant.

We had no such players - not to that extent anyway. Perhaps Hindmarsh - just.

Now we have Hindmarsh as the best second rower in the world (and in my opinion, even the best forward in the game).

But that's it.

I mean, if Hagan's Knights were in trouble, it was always just a simple matter of give it to Kennedy for a massive hit-up, Buderus from dummy half to run, then pass it to Joey and Joey will get you out of trouble.

So Hagan's actual abilities are hard to gauge - he was unsuccessful with the Queensland Origin team, as well.

I have just never fancied him as a good, smart coach.

I would dearly LOVE for him to prove me wrong if he joins us, though, and would support him 100%.

But at this stage I'm nervous about him...

Yes but we also had players like Drew, Buettner, Vella, Cayless, Wagon, Lyon, Hodgosn etc who up until that very night were head and shoulders above a lot in the competition. Lets remember we did flog them without Johns 40-0 earlier in the season. Even though they had beaten us early in the season we still had a substantial mental advantage going into that game. We also didn't fall into the final - they had great players - statitically the Eels were the best side in premiership history. The old adage a champion team will beat a team of champions unfortunately didn't come true that night and personally I believe that the mental preparation of both sides played a MASSIVE part of that...

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

Hindy goes back to training on January 10th

 

[Eelementary]

This year in Origin the coach emphasised how much A Johns brought to the training sessions, and how much he improved them by. How much was he responsible for Newcastle's performance on the night of 2001? Does anyone in the world, anywhere, doubt that if Johns had played for Parra and JT for Newcastle, that the result would have been different? THat is my only concern about attributing premiership success directly to Hagan's overall record as a coach.

Having said that, I belive that one of the most impressive art of Hagan's record is his 2005 season. Yes, they were wooden spooners. Yes, they lost about 100 in a row straight up. But their injury toll and off season drama was as bad as it could have been. Their morale stayed positive, and they finished the season brilliantly. YEs, this coincided with the return of Johns, but the mood in the football team remained positive in the worst circumstances, and they returned to winning football. That says a huge amount for Hagan as a coach.

Nobody can really say whether things would have gone differently.

But Johns IS the man. If we were struggling early on, he would have thrown a rocket up hsi teammates' arses and collectively fired them up.

 

[Eelementary]

Yes but we also had players like Drew, Buettner, Vella, Cayless, Wagon, Lyon, Hodgosn etc who up until that very night were head and shoulders above a lot in the competition. Lets remember we did flog them without Johns 40-0 earlier in the season. Even though they had beaten us early in the season we still had a substantial mental advantage going into that game. We also didn't fall into the final - they had great players - statitically the Eels were the best side in premiership history. The old adage a champion team will beat a team of champions unfortunately didn't come true that night and personally I believe that the mental preparation of both sides played a MASSIVE part of that...

I think Hagan has a good rapport with the players and has a way with people. Probably may even be better than Brian in this way.

But I'm not 100% convinced of his coaching abilities yet. Or his selection policies.

 

[Hellsy]

Resting his knee :lol: ??- that is not what Hellsy reported from the pub !!

Wonder if Smithy knew he was out :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

 

[Eelementary]

Wonder if Smithy knew he was out :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll wager that Smithy was out with him!