hang me for saying this but the NRL needs to go national or go down the drain

[greenhat]

Yea sorry i worded that poorly.
I meant the NRL has had a defensive posture due to AFL success, but I thought the Central Coast would be urgent because Soccer might potentially rise as the next sport to be defensive against

i didn't mean there'd ever be a CC team in AFL (im in canberra, a bigger city where aussie rules is actually pretty popular and even here the AFL has had nothing but near-total failure)



I hope you're right though and the NRL is moving away from defensiveness to an expansionist outlook. I'd be more excited to see a perth and wellington team than a CC one.

 

[ShadesOfTheSun]

The NRL mismanaged the effort in Perth the first time around, and their ineffectuality let the AFL come in in force. Perth makes a lot of sense; the problem is that establishing a team there would also be very difficult. The popularity of Union has been built up by years of test matches being played in Subiaco Oval. League hasn't had a similar kind of initiative, and would find it much more difficult to penetrate the market.

 

[marshall stalin]

Forget a National comp the game must go International as follows

5- Teams in NSW
3 -Teams in Queensland
1 -Team each in ACT/VIC/SA/WA/TAS and New Zealand
2- Teams in England
1- Team in France - Paris
1- Team in Soviet Russia
2- Teams in Asia i.e China and India
1- Team in America
1- Team a combo of PNG and Pacific Isldanders

22 team comp to start with - massive with more teams to be added in developing regions

 

[Collingwood Storm]

the NRL has a long way to go if it wants to become national....the melbourne storm have been going for close to 10 years and still cant stand up on its own and dont look like being able to any time soon

the reason why brisbane and sydney stand up on their own in AFL is because of the focus clubs have on promoting club membership and investing huge amounts of money at grassroots level the swans have approx 30,000 members and brisbane approx 25,000 members and in both states Auskick participation is at an all time high and keeps increasing

 

[Leagueguy]

I think the failure of the Northern Eagles was one the really bad things for the game. Firstly, the North Shore of Sydney must be the most lucrative market in Australia, in terms of sponsorship dollars, networking and big business. League really needs a team to represent that whole area, not just Manly. The Northern Eagles would have been perfect for this, had both entities not hated one another. The other mistake they made was trying to have a profile in Gosford. They tried to cover too big and area. Ideally we should have a North Shore team an CC one.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

the NRL has a long way to go if it wants to become national....the melbourne storm have been going for close to 10 years and still cant stand up on its own and dont look like being able to any time soon

the reason why brisbane and sydney stand up on their own in AFL is because of the focus clubs have on promoting club membership and investing huge amounts of money at grassroots level the swans have approx 30,000 members and brisbane approx 25,000 members and in both states Auskick participation is at an all time high and keeps increasing

That, and the fact that the AFL have given them significant salary cap advantages for the past decade or so to keep their table positions artificially high. The Storm have had to survive without such advantages.

That's changing though.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/AFL/Swans-and-Lions-lose-under-salarycap-changes/2004/11/24/1101219620868.html?from=storylhs

If Brisbane have another crap year like this one they'll be struggling to stay afloat. And the same goes for the pink ducks, if they have two back-to-back poor years they'll be cap in hand to the AFL again.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/articles/2006/08/02/1154198206144.html

The move by the Kangaroos into the Gold Coast will end in tears like it did in Canberra. Even though the AFL have underwritten it even they must realise that people don't want to follow the game, they want to follow a team. So if they don't put a team there, they won't draw dick.

That is borne out by the fact that AFL matches just don't put bums on seats there.

 

[NK Arsenal]

Forget a National comp the game must go International as follows

5- Teams in NSW
3 -Teams in Queensland
1 -Team each in ACT/VIC/SA/WA/TAS and New Zealand
2- Teams in England
1- Team in France - Paris
1- Team in Soviet Russia
2- Teams in Asia i.e China and India
1- Team in America
1- Team a combo of PNG and Pacific Isldanders

22 team comp to start with - massive with more teams to be added in developing regions

f**k off you wanka.

 

[Collingwood Storm]

That, and the fact that the AFL have given them significant salary cap advantages for the past decade or so to keep their table positions artificially high. The Storm have had to survive without such advantages.

That's changing though.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/AFL/Swans-and-Lions-lose-under-salarycap-changes/2004/11/24/1101219620868.html?from=storylhs

If Brisbane have another crap year like this one they'll be struggling to stay afloat. And the same goes for the pink ducks, if they have two back-to-back poor years they'll be cap in hand to the AFL again.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/articles/2006/08/02/1154198206144.html

The move by the Kangaroos into the Gold Coast will end in tears like it did in Canberra. Even though the AFL have underwritten it even they must realise that people don't want to follow the game, they want to follow a team. So if they don't put a team there, they won't draw dick.

That is borne out by the fact that AFL matches just don't put bums on seats there.

the only clubs that are getting assistance from the AFL are Kangaroos, Bulldogs and Demons through the Competitive Balance Fund (CBF)

Sydney get about $800,000 from the AFL to add to their salary cap as a cost of living allowance as property etc... is a lot more expensive in syd than anywhere else

Sydney are actually making profits on their own and the only reason why brisbane havent made profits is because the 'Gabba charge the lions a hell of a lot to use the facilities

 

[magpie_man]

I think the failure of the Northern Eagles was one the really bad things for the game. Firstly, the North Shore of Sydney must be the most lucrative market in Australia, in terms of sponsorship dollars, networking and big business. League really needs a team to represent that whole area, not just Manly. The Northern Eagles would have been perfect for this, had both entities not hated one another. The other mistake they made was trying to have a profile in Gosford. They tried to cover too big and area. Ideally we should have a North Shore team an CC one.

for these reasons i think the central coast bears should definitely be one of the teams admitted in 2010. by reconnecting the nrl with the affluent north shore and giving the central coast their own team the nrl are effectively killing two birds with the one stone. if they played one or two home games per year at north sydney oval and the rest at gosford, i think everyone would be happy.

 

[seajay23]

simple solution
shut down the bulldogs completely and set up new team in perth.
a win/win situation as we would lose the team causing the most player behaviour/salary cap rort and crowd problems - whose gonna miss em.

 

[Angry_eel]

simple solution
shut down the bulldogs completely and set up new team in perth.
a win/win situation as we would lose the team causing the most player behaviour/salary cap rort and crowd problems - whose gonna miss em.

Love em or hate them, Bulldogs are quite popular in Sydney. alot more than people think.

 

[Iafeta]

my two cents:

The NRLs strategy has been to tighten their grip on the east coast as a defence against the AFL - with a long term view to moving out from that as a solid base in future

with that in mind, you'd have to say CC seems like the next choice, because of the A-league presence there. But that will really depend on how the A-league goes for the next few years
if support for soccer drops off dramatically now the world cup is over, then i'd think perth moves ahead in urgency (unless you think the western force have totally killed any prospects - ive never been to perth i dont know)

theres always the possibilty that a sydney team will move to the CC too, tho now souths seems to have got his sh*t together theres no obvious option there

i can't see that the next team will be another QLD one when the titans are just starting

and a 2nd NZ team would be risky,
it could be a good idea in that it would improve the NZ national side (and therefore the profile of international league), but i think it will be put on the back burner because theres not the urgency of competition from AFL or soccer there

Rugby Union.

Say no more.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

the only clubs that are getting assistance from the AFL are Kangaroos, Bulldogs and Demons through the Competitive Balance Fund (CBF)

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the bigger salary cap each team enjoys that they(the AFL) call "location allowance".

The assistance for the struggling Melbourne clubs is another matter.

Sydney get about $800,000 from the AFL to add to their salary cap as a cost of living allowance as property etc... is a lot more expensive in syd than anywhere else

It was more like 10% more rather than 20% and they don't get the money from the AFL, they have a larger salary cap than the other teams.

Brisbane, which is cheaper than both Sydney and Melbourne to live, get a similar allowance.

The fact is that it's nothing more than a way to artificially keep the Swans and Lions at the pointy end of the table.

Sydney are actually making profits on their own and the only reason why brisbane havent made profits is because the 'Gabba charge the lions a hell of a lot to use the facilities

Sydney are making a profit because they won a comp and are in the top few again. If their table position dives, they'll be begging, again. Their ratings are still low and their SCG crowds are only marginally up. Any significant drop in their table position will put them in strife again.

You can make whatever bullsh*t excuse you want for Brisbane, but the fact that they're losing money now that their table position has bottomed out points simply to them being 100% reliant on table position. If they think this year was bad, watch the drop again if they stay in the bottom few. They might long for the Bears days.

As for juniors, how many Brisbane and Sydney based players are in the AFL drafts?

Bugger all.

25 years and the actual amount of people coming through the ranks from Sydney and Brisbane is hardly better than in was in the 1980's.

 

[russ13]

Sydney are actually making profits on their own and the only reason why brisbane havent made profits is because the 'Gabba charge the lions a hell of a lot to use the facilities

The Broncos have similar similar stadium expenses at Suncorp & are making a profit. There are only 6 or 7 in the Lions squad (about 40 players) who are locals. It is no wonder their bottom line suffers.

It was mainly at the instigation of the AFL the Gabba was extended to hold 40,000 or so. Since these completions the Lions have been unable to fill the ground. I would say there only hope in the future is when they play Collingwood.

The AFL in Queensland is sinking like a stone. In recent times for every one person that watches the Lions (on TV) in Southern Queensland nearly 4 watch the Broncos. For every one person that watches AFL in Queensland in the last week 10 watched the final SOO game.

For every junior AF player in Queensland there is close to 17 playing the other football codes.

The AFL boom had all the traits of a fad during the Lions' success. That fad has well & truly passed.

 

[Kurt Angle]

6 or 7 Lions in the squad who are "local" players.

That's pushing it a bit far.

Someone like Akermanis moved to Queensland when he was 14 because his mother took him to the gold coast because the single mother's pension stretched further there than in Melbourne.

He was already a victorian by then.

 

[russ13]

Kurt

I got this from a TRL thread. As you know Thomas aks as Aflies Thumb had this said about him over there:

...I'd be vary wary of calling other posters liars AT. You have a very suspect grip on facts yourself - after all you were the man who claimed that 50% of the playing staff of the AFL Brisbane Lions were home-grown Queenslanders. I went on their website and checked it out - of 38 players a grand total of six were from Queensland. When I made the point you simply neglected to ever comment on it. So I don't think you're exactly in a strong position when it comes to claiming the moral high ground.

The fan of both codes said he can't remember making this statement.

Anyway here is a recent extract from a Sydney paper on the subject:

In the Saturday the 12th August, 2006 edition of the Daily Telegraph there is a story on page 40 & age 57 about the supposed 'battlefield' in Sydney between rugby league and AFL.

Here are the main facts about the story and contrary to AFL's supposed massive growth in NSW, the facts prove that AFL is still a very distant 4th in NSW.

Across Sydney, Illawarra, Newcastle, Central Coast and the Hunter Valley there are 5622 AFL juniors and only 2040 Aus-kick players.

In Penrith (3.8% increase for 2006), Western Suburbs (42.4%), Parramatta (18.5%) and Canterbury (2.3%) (4 metro areas of Sydney) there are a total of 22,000 registered rugby league players. This area doesn't include the majority of Sydney, Newcastle (6,500 juniors), the Central Coast (4,500 juniors) and the Hunter Valley (also rugby league dominant) West of Leichardt, rugby league has nearly 1,400 teams and over 20,000 registered players, AFL has just 189 teams.

There was also significant quotes from Swans player, Jared Crouch who says 'theres more talk then anything actually going on' and Campbelltown City mayor who bemoaned the AFL for the games demise in the area says that AFL has 'died off' after a healthy period in the game a decade ago. 'The kids just fell away, they were lost to the game and they never come back. Some of the weak clubs out this way are very weak- they are year-to-year propositions'.

Ovals in Sydney which CAN be used for AFL: 27 only

Ovals in Sydney which ARE used for rugby league: 205

'In Sydney, rugby league takes on 'Stalin-esque' proportions'.
............................................................ ...........................................

Taken from Daily Telegraph, Saturday 12 August, 2006 (pp.40 & 57)

From the Sunday-Mail in Brisbane 20 August 2006:

IRONED OUT!

by Selina Steele


The Brisbanes Lions' slide down the AFL ladder has them on the nose with viewers. On free-to-air and Pay TV, Brisbane Lions' audiences have dropped by a staggering 80,000 per week.

Nationally, SBS cult cooking show The Iron Chef has at times out-rated the pride of Brisbane town. Faster the Iron Chef hiroyuki Sakai can chop, slice and dice a chinese cabbage viewers are dropping off the former AFL heavyweights.

A study of OzTam television revealed:

1) Only 70,000 Brisbane viewers tuned into last Saturday's night's Lions- Richmond telecast - a 48,000 drop from when the teams met in Round 4;

2) Nationally more people watched Paul Hogan's Crocodile Dundee (320,000) than the Lion's 82 point loss to Terry Wallace's Tigers(278,000) last Saturday night;

3) Nationally five times this season, The Iron Chef has outrated a Lions' game;

4) Last year's best result was 234,000 v St. Kilda in the opening round. This season the high was 169,000 for the MCG Collingwood game in Round 10;

5)Last season's low of 108,000 against St. Kilda was still 38,000 more than last week's ratings.


AFL Operating officer Ben Buckley said yeaterday:

"AFL games in Queensland this year, which are primarily centred around telecasts of the Brisbane Lions have had a drop in their audience number.

This no doubt reflects a difficult year for the club on the field in terms of wins and losses. However the AFL looks at the longer term picture...the number watching the game in Queensland are considerable further along from the number of people who watched AFL games in Queensland in 2002.

In the five year period fron 2002-2006, our TV audience in Queensland has grown by more than 50%, enabling us to really push along our development plans for the code, particularly in south-east Queensland."

Concerned at the slide in audience numbers, Lions chief Michael Bowers said it was a warning to the AFL that there was still plenty of work to be done in Queensland.

"We have been saying for quite some time that the Brisbane Lions have been able to achieve during our premiership years is not normal trading conditions," he said.

"We're concerned that the AFL might have put its glasses down as far as Queensland is concerned. We think their focus has shifted to NSW and Victorian clubs..."

 

[Perth Red]

A couple of things:

Why compare AFL stuff to NRL stuff in league heartlands? I don't think the AFL ever expect to be bigger in NSW or Q'land than RL. What they do expect is to have solid, well attended, financially viable clubs, a growing junior base and a TV "presence". Do you think the NRL ever expect the Storm to be bigger than the AFL in Victoria? RL is no where near having the same presence in "enemy territory" that AFL currently has in NSW and Q'land. The game barely exists in SA and WA and is only just starting to have a presence in Victoria.

The massive difference in the recent media deals looks to have finally shaken the NRL from its slumber and I see no coincidence that shortly after we failed miserably in the TV deals that the NRL decided to make a serious effort to make RL in Victoria viable. Networks and sponsors want national coverage of the games they are paying big bucks for (even if the audience in some parts of the country is small)

RL in WA has been clutching at life belts for the last few years. If we are to ever have a NRL team here we need a 5-10 year reintroduction plan. The Force's success isn't fluke. It is built on 5 years of planning, RU internationals, developing the junior WARU and attracting the media and corporate support of WA. Does the NRL have the funds, ability and vision to do the same? I have my doubts.

 

[marshall stalin]

Love em or hate them, Bulldogs are quite popular in Sydney. alot more than people think.

only in certain parts of sydney are the dogs popular. merge them with wests and move them to campbelltown (similar area to the dogs current area) or merge them with the warriors - NZ Canterbury Bulldogs

A world comp has to happen it is the first code that does this that will reap the benefit of this decision - in that case the bulldogs should be relocated to china - beijing bulldogs - rilly rason will be a big hit with the locals along with runny rill rimmlliams

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Idiot.

If you're trying to be funny it isn't working and if you're not trying to be funny there's only one thing that can help you.

A noose.

 

[greenhat]

I think the most telling fact about how small aussie rules is in sydney is that the swans reserves play in the ACT competition.
They do this because the ACTAFL comp is considerably stronger than the sydney one.

The ACT is 1/10th the population of sydney, and aussie rules is the still behind union and league here.
Sydney's comp must be -hopeless-