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Has expansion actually brought in any more money?

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,920
V'landys is just another Gallop, a News ltd figurehead making sure News benefit most out of their toy.
It would appear that way! I sense some serious skull duggery at play. If only we had some non conflicted media that could actually ask the hard questions of our leader!

not hard to see how the conversation may have gone with murdoch early In 2020 is it?
Vlandys -will you fund expansion?
Murdoch -nah no more money.
Vlandys -ok how about a $100mill discount on the next deal and you can then make it up when I announce expansion?
Murdoch -more content for same money? Sweet it’s a deal.
 
Messages
12,747
Even if they cut broncos fta by 50%, which they won’t, and put dolphins on fta 75% of games you’d still get a significant increase in fta brisbane team exposure. Where’s the value to Ch9 you kept telling us about?? It didn’t really even have value to fox, they seemingly paid up a) to save Vlandys b) to get broncos off fta and drive subscriptions in brisbane.

broncos currently on fta 17/24 games

2023-
broncos on fta 9 games
dolphins on fta 18 games

total brisbane fta games 27, an increase of 10 games on fta for brisbane clubs.
Has the NRL confirmed there will be 27 Ch9 games featuring Broncos and Dolphins in 2023?
 
Messages
3,224
An interesting debate in the media section has uncovered a potential misdirection by Vlandys and Abdo on value of Dolphins expansion.

baseline panther is claiming that Vlandys signed us up to a deal with fox for 2023-2027 for $20million LESS than the deal signed on the 18-22 deal. Then when announcing expansion he claimed fox was going to pay $100million for it. In effect all that does is take the fox deal back to where it was in 2018. Ie they aren’t paying anymore for the extra content than they agreed to in 2018.

alongside that the nine deal has stayed the same in cash with just contra (advertising) increasing by $10mill a year.

the big increase from sky nz was largely due to competition tendering with a streaming service Not expansion.

if baseline panthers is correct then we have just expanded with no more cash to show for it than we had in the 18-22 deal. Has the nrl pulled a fast one and made it sound like expansion has been paid for when in reality it hasnt generated anything more?
he actually signed us up to a deal with foxtel for 20 million less PA in 2020 til the end of 2027

DUE TO COVID
& nothing more

He then signed a new deal in 2021 with foxtel for 20 million MORE PA then the deal signed in 2020 due to the inclusion of the Dolphins from 2023-27
An extra 100 million to the games bottom line & hasn't ruled out an 18th team & even more $$ sometime within the life of this new deal 23-27.

You posted this drivel in the TV deal rights thread & got run outta there & tried it again in the fight club where you'll end up in tears there too. Your anti PVL RL agenda posting with no context or perspective will be challenged where ever it is & anyone new to leagueunlimited needs to know that you are that biased & transparent with your agenda , you're the forum joke.
That is all.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,920
The cold hard fact that baseline continually chooses to ignore, and throws around personal insults as he has no answer to, is that despite expansion the nrl will not receive one cent more than it did in 2018 from its Australian media partners. That’s an indisputable FACT!
 
Messages
4,545
I think the NRL needs to be aware of market saturation if contemplating adding anymore Queensland teams- It could well be considered that 4 QLD teams meets the current demand for the product.

If say 1 million watch NRL on a regular basis in Queensland week in week out -adding a 5th team won't likely result in an increase in 1 million watching NRL. - current demand for the product has already been met

It also limits the profitability and growth potential of the existing teams by adding more teams to a saturated market.

There would be folk who were Bronco Supporters including sponsors who will switch to the Dolphins in 2023 not withstanding what the NRL say that the Dolphins need to generate their own fan base , sponsors and juniors and not cannibalise the Bronco's

To add value to the broadcasting rights they need teams in new markets - i.e adding a second NZ team (Based on the South Island) in an expanding market and or Perth or even Adelaide in a untapped/new market.
 
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Messages
12,747
I think the NRL needs to be aware of market saturation if contemplating adding anymore Queensland teams- It could well be considered that 4 QLD teams meets the current demand for the product.

If say 1 million watch NRL on a regular basis in Queensland week in week out -adding a 5th team won't likely result in an increase in 1 million watching NRL. - current demand for the product has already been met

It also limits the profitability and growth potential of the existing teams by adding more teams to a saturated market.

There would be folk who were Bronco Supporters including sponsors who will switch to the Dolphins in 2023 not withstanding what the NRL say that the Dolphins need to generate their own fan base , sponsors and juniors and not cannibalise the Bronco's

To add value to the broadcasting rights they need teams in new markets - i.e adding a second NZ team (Based on the South Island) in an expanding market and or Perth or even Adelaide in a untapped/new market.
You've raised good points about saturation. Only thing I'll add to it is if two teams in Brisbane is "saturation", then wouldn't nine teams in Sydney be overkill?

How do we justify limiting Brisbane to just two while keeping nine in Sydney, when RL is arguably more popular in Brisbane?

We're going to have to bite the bullet at some stage and rationalise in Sydney to grow the game elsewhere. The new team has added an extra $20m a year to game, to offset the extra $15m needed to fund them. DailyMail says Foxtel threw in $20m instead of $15m due to the marketability of a second Brisbane team.

"An extra $15 million will be needed per year to fund another team, with Foxtel to offset that money by promising $20 million as a part of its broadcast deal, given the marketability of a second Brisbane team."


If that's true, then I'd like to know what a third team in Brisbane is worth. I imagine it's a question that only time can answer and, will depend on how well The Dolphins perform on and off the field.

Maybe two teams in Brisbane is enough. But if it is, then we have no option but to kill off a few Sydney clubs so we can create room for Adelaide, Perth, NZ 2 and hopefully NZ 3. The message I'm getting from some of the Sydney posters on here is keep Brisbane to just two teams so we can add Adelaide, Perth, NZ 2 and retain all nine clubs, even though there's no demand for them. As a Queenslander that offends me and makes me want to quit watching the game I've loved since I was a kid.

Why should I fork out $25 a month for a Kayo to watch nine Sydney clubs that don't mean shit to me with just four from Queensland that I do want to see, but not at such a high cost?

I cannot speak for other Queenslanders, but as some one who grew up watching more Queensland Cup as a kid than ARL in 1996, I have a heavy bias towards the old BRL clubs. I didn't have Optus Vision in 1996 and Ch9 only had one game on delay each Friday night with an hour highlights package each Sunday night. Some times we would get a Saturday game involving the Chargers or the Broncos on a Sunday at 4pm. Other than that, the only live and uninterrupted coverage we got was of the Queensland Cup at 2pm each Saturday. I grew up watching that game religiously as the coverage was better than that of the ARL. I got to learn about all these great clubs that none of you lot down south ever saw. I didn't care that they didn't have any big name players. The football was great and the clubs had character. The commentary of David Wright, Warren Boland and Gerry Collins left an impression on my mind and I'll always remember it as the pinnacle of rugby league.

I couldn't give a shit if all nine Sydney clubs were killed off. I never rated them and I do not have an emotional connection to any of them. I've seen them play out front of empty stadiums since I was a kid and thought to myself, "why are these wankers in the big league when no one in their own city could be bothered to watch them play"? I didn't really watch much of them. I spent more time listening to the radio to hear updates on the Cowboys, even though the Sydney-based commentators clearly hated my club. This only fueled my hatred for Sydney even more.

That's my two cents as a Brisbane-bred RL fan. I don't expect people down south to understand or agree with my view, I'm just telling you how I see it and how I feel. I get that you lot down south have a different view that I'll never stand and I've come to accept it, but it's also the reason why I don't know if I can keep loving the game the way I did if it continues with its "Sydney first and f**k everyone else" attitude. I would be surprised if I was the only person who felt this way.
 
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siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
You've raised good points about saturation. Only thing I'll add to it is if two teams in Brisbane is "saturation", then wouldn't nine teams in Sydney be overkill?

How do we justify limiting Brisbane to just two while keeping nine in Sydney, when RL is arguably more popular in Brisbane?

We're going to have to bite the bullet at some stage and rationalise in Sydney to grow the game elsewhere. The new team has added an extra $20m a year to game, to offset the extra $15m needed to fund them. DailyMail says Foxtel threw in $20m instead of $15m due to the marketability of a second Brisbane team.

"An extra $15 million will be needed per year to fund another team, with Foxtel to offset that money by promising $20 million as a part of its broadcast deal, given the marketability of a second Brisbane team."


If that's true, then I'd like to know what a third team in Brisbane is worth. I imagine it's a question that only time can answer and, will depend on how well The Dolphins perform on and off the field.

Maybe two teams in Brisbane is enough. But if it is, then we have no option but to kill off a few Sydney clubs so we can create room for Adelaide, Perth, NZ 2 and hopefully NZ 3. The message I'm getting from some of the Sydney posters on here is keep Brisbane to just two teams so we can add Adelaide, Perth, NZ 2 and retain all nine clubs, even though there's no demand for them. As a Queenslander that offends me and makes me want to quit watching the game I've loved since I was a kid.

Why should I fork out $25 a month for a Kayo to watch nine Sydney clubs that don't mean shit to me with just four from Queensland that I do want to see, but not at such a high cost?

I cannot speak for other Queenslanders, but as some one who grew up watching more Queensland Cup as a kid than ARL in 1996, I have a heavy bias towards the old BRL clubs. I didn't have Optus Vision in 1996 and Ch9 only had one game on delay each Friday night with an hour highlights package each Sunday night. Some times we would get a Saturday game involving the Chargers or the Broncos on a Sunday at 4pm. Other than that, the only live and uninterrupted coverage we got was of the Queensland Cup at 2pm each Saturday. I grew up watching that game religiously as the coverage was better than that of the ARL. I got to learn about all these great clubs that none of you lot down south ever saw. I didn't care that they didn't have any big name players. The football was great and the clubs had character. The commentary of David Wright, Warren Boland and Gerry Collins left an impression on my mind and I'll always remember it as the pinnacle of rugby league.

I couldn't give a shit if all nine Sydney clubs were killed off. I never rated them and I do not have an emotional connection to any of them. I've seen them play out front of empty stadiums since I was a kid and thought to myself, "why are these wankers in the big league when no one in their own city could be bothered to watch them play"? I didn't really watch much of them. I spent more time listening to the radio to hear updates on the Cowboys, even though the Sydney-based commentators clearly hated my club. This only fueled my hatred for Sydney even more.

That's my two cents as a Brisbane-bred RL fan. I don't expect people down south to understand or agree with my view, I'm just telling you how I see it and how I feel. I get that you lot down south have a different view that I'll never stand and I've come to accept it, but it's also the reason why I don't know if I can keep loving the game the way I did if it continues with its "Sydney first and f**k everyone else" attitude. I would be surprised if I was the only person who felt this way.
You highlight why the Sydney / Regional conference model would work

Or a return to a pure QRL / NSWRL model with a Australian Championship playoff after each GF

I am interested in how many times did it actually occur in the past (ie pre NSW Cuo v Qld Cup version)
 
Messages
4,545
You've raised good points about saturation. Only thing I'll add to it is if two teams in Brisbane is "saturation", then wouldn't nine teams in Sydney be overkill?

How do we justify limiting Brisbane to just two while keeping nine in Sydney, when RL is arguably more popular in Brisbane?

We're going to have to bite the bullet at some stage and rationalise in Sydney to grow the game elsewhere. The new team has added an extra $20m a year to game, to offset the extra $15m needed to fund them. DailyMail says Foxtel threw in $20m instead of $15m due to the marketability of a second Brisbane team.

"An extra $15 million will be needed per year to fund another team, with Foxtel to offset that money by promising $20 million as a part of its broadcast deal, given the marketability of a second Brisbane team."


If that's true, then I'd like to know what a third team in Brisbane is worth. I imagine it's a question that only time can answer and, will depend on how well The Dolphins perform on and off the field.

Maybe two teams in Brisbane is enough. But if it is, then we have no option but to kill off a few Sydney clubs so we can create room for Adelaide, Perth, NZ 2 and hopefully NZ 3. The message I'm getting from some of the Sydney posters on here is keep Brisbane to just two teams so we can add Adelaide, Perth, NZ 2 and retain all nine clubs, even though there's no demand for them. As a Queenslander that offends me and makes me want to quit watching the game I've loved since I was a kid.

Why should I fork out $25 a month for a Kayo to watch nine Sydney clubs that don't mean shit to me with just four from Queensland that I do want to see, but not at such a high cost?

I cannot speak for other Queenslanders, but as some one who grew up watching more Queensland Cup as a kid than ARL in 1996, I have a heavy bias towards the old BRL clubs. I didn't have Optus Vision in 1996 and Ch9 only had one game on delay each Friday night with an hour highlights package each Sunday night. Some times we would get a Saturday game involving the Chargers or the Broncos on a Sunday at 4pm. Other than that, the only live and uninterrupted coverage we got was of the Queensland Cup at 2pm each Saturday. I grew up watching that game religiously as the coverage was better than that of the ARL. I got to learn about all these great clubs that none of you lot down south ever saw. I didn't care that they didn't have any big name players. The football was great and the clubs had character. The commentary of David Wright, Warren Boland and Gerry Collins left an impression on my mind and I'll always remember it as the pinnacle of rugby league.

I couldn't give a shit if all nine Sydney clubs were killed off. I never rated them and I do not have an emotional connection to any of them. I've seen them play out front of empty stadiums since I was a kid and thought to myself, "why are these wankers in the big league when no one in their own city could be bothered to watch them play"? I didn't really watch much of them. I spent more time listening to the radio to hear updates on the Cowboys, even though the Sydney-based commentators clearly hated my club. This only fueled my hatred for Sydney even more.

That's my two cents as a Brisbane-bred RL fan. I don't expect people down south to understand or agree with my view, I'm just telling you how I see it and how I feel. I get that you lot down south have a different view that I'll never stand and I've come to accept it, but it's also the reason why I don't know if I can keep loving the game the way I did if it continues with its "Sydney first and f**k everyone else" attitude. I would be surprised if I was the only person who felt this way.
There is no way they will be cutting Sydney teams though. Of course nowadays there would be no chance of either Penrith and Cronulla being admitted as new teams as they were for the 1967 season to make it a 12 team comp.

One can also say admitting the Brisbane Bronco's to the NSWRL comp as it was then was the death knell of the Brisbane Comp as it was never the same after that.

Competing with the Brisbane Bronco's who have a strangle hold on that South Eastern Qld area wont be easy and why the various Gold Coast teams have struggled as well for support including corporate sponsorship to be somewhat competitive.

I don't think you can have more than 2 teams in Brisbane due to the Bronco's Monopoly type Market dominance as i mentioned above which has existed since 1988 and it will be interesting to see how the Dolphins go - will they end up another South QLD Crushers?

The Bronco's won't be conceding their Monopoly in the League Market in SE QLD to the Dolphins/Titans without a fight or to any future new Brisbane team.

It is very hard for new entries in a Monopoly market to get a foot in the door so the speak let alone to be successful.

The Sydney League market isn't a Monopoly type one like in Brisbane due to the length of time many of these Sydney Teams have been around for. They compete in the same market but have built up their respective share of the league market over time.

By the sounds of it you would be on board with a 2 conference system when there are 18 teams- Sydney Teams and Non Sydney Teams one.

You could subscribe to the Non Sydney Teams conference as they will play each other twice and the Sydney Conference teams only once.

If the 9 Sydney teams were killed off as you said there would be no comp.

The Brisbane Bronco's don't sell out Suncorp every home game though even when the only game in town - Suncorp Capacity is 52.500

The following is the average crowds for 3 seasons pre-covid




A lot of factors affect attendances though - day and times of the games/ pay tv subscriptions and FTA and mostly only 1 game is played -haven't had 3 grades play on the same day for a long time- In Sydney Jersey Flegg and NSW Cup are mostly played on Saturdays and the NRL game as a standalone game.
 
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T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,313
The Dolphins will hopefully take a chunk out of the Storm success not the Broncos.
I already hear that the Storm are now looking to NZ more so then Brisbane but I would take that as a sign we should have a second NZ team as well. Basically corner the Storm so they have to work harder in Melbourne the fat shits.
 
Messages
4,545
Not sure that it does as having two teams in Brisbane won't necessary bring in more money or supporters - if x number watch NRL games on a regular basis as it is will that number increase as a result of the Dolphins admittance to the comp? - Not sure if folk in the Redcliffe catchment area are Bronco fans or not nor if they may switch to following the Dolphins.

Beneficiaries would be QLD Government with a game every week at Suncorp and hotels/pubs/clubs/restaurants etc. Losers could well be the Bronco's if x number of their fans/sponsors switch to the Dolphins and it will be interested to see the crowds both the Bronco's and Dolphins attract each home game. Dolphins may take some time before they are competitive one assumes so the Bronco's may have some breathing space before that happens.

To actually make more money and increase the supporter and viewer numbers they need to enter new markets and not increase the number of a teams in an already saturated sport market. So an 18th Team should come from a new market whether it be a second NZ team based on the North Island or a team based in Perth WA.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,920
It'd be monkey nuts stupid to put a third team in Brisbane next, but this is rugba league so I fully expect thats what they will do!
 
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14,216
With the Peter V'landys philosophy of fish here the fish are, IF there is to be a another NRL team in Queensland my money would be on Ipswich or Toowoomba, and if you put a gun t my head i would say Ipswich.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,920
With the Peter V'landys philosophy of fish here the fish are,
to use your analogy:

a fisherman has a stretch of the river to himself. In this river there are 12 fish. The fisherman is pretty good and with no competition he manages to catch 10 of these 12 fish which makes him the most successful fisherman on the river.

next day a second fisherman comes and sits next to him and fishes the same stretch of river. The first fisherman now catches 8 fish whilst the second fisherman catches 3 of the remaining fish.

a bit later a third fisherman comes and starts fishing in the same spot. Now the first fisherman losses out and now only catches 6 fish, the second fisherman can’t catch more than his 3 fish and the third fisherman offering something a bit different manages to the capture the three remaining fish.

The second and third fishermen knew that further down the river there were areas not being fished at all with at least 5 or 6 fish in them but they were harder to catch so being risk averse and a bit lazy they decided it would easier to go to where the first successful fisherman was and fish there.

so now fisherman number one is no longer as successful as he was and fisherman two and three barely get by on their three fishes.

and that’s what happens when you keep going to where the fish are And not looking for new parts of the river yet to be fished.
 
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Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,421
It'd be monkey nuts stupid to put a third team in Brisbane next, but this is rugba league so I fully expect thats what they will do!

This times 1,000. It is mind numbingly stupid. Instead of making big, well supported clubs or taking on different regions, we want to make every club a small club
 

ground zero

Juniors
Messages
305
to use your analogy:

a fisherman has a stretch of the river to himself. In this river there are 12 fish. The fisherman is pretty good and with no competition he manages to catch 10 of these 12 fish which makes him the most successful fisherman on the river.

next day a second fisherman comes and sits next to him and fishes the same stretch of river. The first fisherman now catches 8 fish whilst the second fisherman catches 3 of the remaining fish.

a bit later a third fisherman comes and starts fishing in the same spot. Now the first fisherman losses out and now only catches 6 fish, the second fisherman can’t catch more than his 3 fish and the third fisherman offering something a bit different manages to the capture the three remaining fish.

The second and third fishermen knew that further down the river there were areas not being fished at all with at least 5 or 6 fish in them but they were harder to catch so being risk averse and a bit lazy they decided it would easier to go to where the first successful fisherman was and fish there.

so now fisherman number one is no longer as successful as he was and fisherman two and three barely get by on their three fishes.

and that’s what happens when you keep going to where the fish are And not looking for new parts of the river yet to be fished.
What a crock off shit this post is.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
5,858
to use your analogy:

a fisherman has a stretch of the river to himself. In this river there are 12 fish. The fisherman is pretty good and with no competition he manages to catch 10 of these 12 fish which makes him the most successful fisherman on the river.

next day a second fisherman comes and sits next to him and fishes the same stretch of river. The first fisherman now catches 8 fish whilst the second fisherman catches 3 of the remaining fish.

a bit later a third fisherman comes and starts fishing in the same spot. Now the first fisherman losses out and now only catches 6 fish, the second fisherman can’t catch more than his 3 fish and the third fisherman offering something a bit different manages to the capture the three remaining fish.

The second and third fishermen knew that further down the river there were areas not being fished at all with at least 5 or 6 fish in them but they were harder to catch so being risk averse and a bit lazy they decided it would easier to go to where the first successful fisherman was and fish there.

so now fisherman number one is no longer as successful as he was and fisherman two and three barely get by on their three fishes.

and that’s what happens when you keep going to where the fish are And not looking for new parts of the river yet to be fished.


to use your analogy:

a fisherman has a stretch of the river to himself. In this river there are 12 fish. The fisherman is pretty good and with no competition he manages to catch 10 of these 12 fish which makes him the most successful fisherman on the river.

next day a second fisherman comes and sits next to him and fishes the same stretch of river. The first fisherman now catches 8 fish whilst the second fisherman catches 3 of the remaining fish.

a bit later a third fisherman comes and starts fishing in the same spot. Now the first fisherman losses out and now only catches 6 fish, the second fisherman can’t catch more than his 3 fish and the third fisherman offering something a bit different manages to the capture the three remaining fish.

The second and third fishermen knew that further down the river there were areas not being fished at all with at least 5 or 6 fish in them but they were harder to catch so being risk averse and a bit lazy they decided it would easier to go to where the first successful fisherman was and fish there.

so now fisherman number one is no longer as successful as he was and fisherman two and three barely get by on their three fishes.

and that’s what happens when you keep going to where the fish are And not looking for new parts of the river yet to be fished.

Thanks Jesus. Selling NRL in rusted on afl town is like fishing in Aral sea
 

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