Has expansion actually brought in any more money?

[Pippen94]

I think the NRL needs to be aware of market saturation if contemplating adding anymore Queensland teams- It could well be considered that 4 QLD teams meets the current demand for the product.

If say 1 million watch NRL on a regular basis in Queensland week in week out -adding a 5th team won't likely result in an increase in 1 million watching NRL. - current demand for the product has already been met

It also limits the profitability and growth potential of the existing teams by adding more teams to a saturated market.

There would be folk who were Bronco Supporters including sponsors who will switch to the Dolphins in 2023 not withstanding what the NRL say that the Dolphins need to generate their own fan base , sponsors and juniors and not cannibalise the Bronco's

To add value to the broadcasting rights they need teams in new markets - i.e adding a second NZ team (Based on the South Island) in an expanding market and or Perth or even Adelaide in a untapped/new market.

Nobody watches NRL in Adelaide or Perth. They watch in Brisbane especially qldteams. Maximizing that audience will increase viewership

 

[Pippen94]

he actually signed us up to a deal with foxtel for 20 million less PA in 2020 til the end of 2027

DUE TO COVID
& nothing more

He then signed a new deal in 2021 with foxtel for 20 million MORE PA then the deal signed in 2020 due to the inclusion of the Dolphins from 2023-27
An extra 100 million to the games bottom line & hasn't ruled out an 18th team & even more $$ sometime within the life of this new deal 23-27.

You posted this drivel in the TV deal rights thread & got run outta there & tried it again in the fight club where you'll end up in tears there too. Your anti PVL RL agenda posting with no context or perspective will be challenged where ever it is & anyone new to leagueunlimited needs to know that you are that biased & transparent with your agenda , you're the forum joke.
That is all.

Perth bid on tatters calls for desperate measures..

 

[ayatollah_murdoch]

Given the on field product with the 6 again absolutely stinking up the game, I don't blame the broadcasters for paying less!

In terms of future appeal, agree the NRL is at risk of becoming a niche sport. So too the AFL. And cricket too. The world is evolving so rapidly. Pretty soon, all the kids will be in the metaverse playing minecraft and going to the church of Bezos every Sunday.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I can't wait until the Firehawks are announced as the 18th NRL team. They're building the infrastructure needed to be solvent and successful in the NRL. That's why they'll be chosen over NZ 2 and Perth.

The NRL doesn't have the vision or guts to invest in a team in a non-RL city that will take decades to become sustainable. If it wasn't for News Ltd and the Super League War then we wouldn't have the Melbourne Storm.

 

[The Great Dane]

to use your analogy:

a fisherman has a stretch of the river to himself. In this river there are 12 fish. The fisherman is pretty good and with no competition he manages to catch 10 of these 12 fish which makes him the most successful fisherman on the river.

next day a second fisherman comes and sits next to him and fishes the same stretch of river. The first fisherman now catches 8 fish whilst the second fisherman catches 3 of the remaining fish.

a bit later a third fisherman comes and starts fishing in the same spot. Now the first fisherman losses out and now only catches 6 fish, the second fisherman can’t catch more than his 3 fish and the third fisherman offering something a bit different manages to the capture the three remaining fish.

The second and third fishermen knew that further down the river there were areas not being fished at all with at least 5 or 6 fish in them but they were harder to catch so being risk averse and a bit lazy they decided it would easier to go to where the first successful fisherman was and fish there.

so now fisherman number one is no longer as successful as he was and fisherman two and three barely get by on their three fishes.

and that’s what happens when you keep going to where the fish are And not looking for new parts of the river yet to be fished.

Overfishing is a massive problem, and also the reason why the "fish where the fish are" analogy has always been unbelievably short-sighted and stupid.

Take a look at what David Gallop's fish where the fish are mentality did to the A-league... You don't want to follow that path.

 

[Perth Red]

Nobody watches NRL in Adelaide or Perth. They watch in Brisbane especially qldteams. Maximizing that audience will increase viewership

Yet to be proven. 100k watch NRL GF in Perth, sell out crowds at games, it would be short sighted to believe there are no fish in the Western sea. Like I said NRL is lazy and short sighted and wouldn't surprise me at all to go with another Brisbane club in ten years. Its not hard to see why RL has failed to grow beyond its traditional areas.

They'd rather get the extra 50k viewers in Brisbane than actually grow the game for the benefit of the sport. Wouldn't be so bad if Ch9 actually paid more for those extra viewers but seeing as they haven't there is little value in them anyway to the game. Neither FTA pr PTV has paid more for 17 clubs than they paid for 16 clubs. Maybe we should start basing expansion decisions on what's best for the game rather than best for TV, especially if they aren't paying anything extra?

By the way I believe Brisbane2 is the right call for club 17 but club 18 has to be a proper expansion club to grow the game or the game is going to be going nowhere fast over the next 2 decades. Brisbane3 adds no more fish to the catch.

 

[Perth Red]

I can't wait until the Firehawks are announced as the 18th NRL team. They're building the infrastructure needed to be solvent and successful in the NRL. That's why they'll be chosen over NZ 2 and Perth.

The NRL doesn't have the vision or guts to invest in a team in a non-RL city that will take decades to become sustainable. If it wasn't for News Ltd and the Super League War then we wouldn't have the Melbourne Storm.

Problem is until the NRL actually gives places like Perth and NZ2 the option of bidding we wont know just how sustainable a proper expansion club could be. Not that Id want him owning a club but Sage, for example, has more money/assets than the Tigers and has spent over $30million on Perth Glory over his 15 years of ownership. If we are only go to have clubs who can leach off pokies in the NRL the game isn't going very far very fast.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yet to be proven. 100k watch NRL GF in Perth, sell out crowds at games, it would be short sighted to believe there are no fish in the Western sea. Like I said NRL is lazy and short sighted and wouldn't surprise me at all to go with another Brisbane club in ten years. Its not hard to see why RL has failed to grow beyond its traditional areas.

They'd rather get the extra 50k viewers in Brisbane than actually grow the game for the benefit of the sport. Wouldn't be so bad if Ch9 actually paid more for those extra viewers but seeing as they haven't there is little value in them anyway to the game. Neither FTA pr PTV has paid more for 17 clubs than they paid for 16 clubs. Maybe we should start basing expansion decisions on what's best for the game rather than best for TV, especially if they aren't paying anything extra?

By the way I believe Brisbane2 is the right call for club 17 but club 18 has to be a proper expansion club to grow the game or the game is going to be going nowhere fast over the next 2 decades. Brisbane3 adds no more fish to the catch.

Hopefully Ch9/Stan are interested in buying up the broadcast rights to all games in 2027. If they do then we might see interest in admitting teams in Adelaide and Perth.

 

[Perth Red]

Hopefully Ch9/Stan are interested in buying up the broadcast rights to all games in 2027. If they do then we might see interest in admitting teams in Adelaide and Perth.

They couldn't afford them on their own, be interesting to see what the streaming landscape is by 2025 when the next rights will start to be considered. Could be a very different world with more sports going to self content creation and multiple platform providers. NRL is slow though so very much doubt we will be pioneering that. We may see some interesting direction change when AFL renegotiate for '25 onwards.

In theory streaming takes away the need for every game to be a stand alone time slot so much more opportunity to add more clubs and show games at same times and on replay. Having just got Kayo the NFL Minis have been brilliant and being able to watch a full round in a couple of hours is awesome. I could see similar for NRL as people become less inclined to sit for 2 hours through a game at a specific time.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Problem is until the NRL actually gives places like Perth and NZ2 the option of bidding we wont know just how sustainable a proper expansion club could be. Not that Id want him owning a club but Sage, for example, has more money/assets than the Tigers and has spent over $30million on Perth Glory over his 15 years of ownership. If we are only go to have clubs who can leach off pokies in the NRL the game isn't going very far very fast.

Perth and NZ 2 should have been added to the competition years ago.

We would have a far larger fanbase if we bit the bullet and spent money building the game in Perth and NZ 10 years ago.

I was looking at the Illawarra Steelers history the other day. I didn't realise how little financial support there is for an NRL club in Wollongong. They needed Bruce Gordon to cover the Steelers' debt and he now owns their share of the merger. We really need a professional second-tier so that smaller cities like Central Coast, Wollongong, Logan, Ipswich, Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton and Sunshine Coast can have access to quality RL. I'd even drop three of Sydney's weaker NRL clubs to this competition and replace their spots with Adelaide, Perth and NZ 2.

Imagine this competition.

Brisbane Bengals
Cairns Cyclones
Central Coast Bears
Central Queensland Capras
Illawarra Steelers
Ipswich Jets
Logan Scorpions
Mackay Cutters
Northern Sydney Sea Eagles
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Southern Sydney Sharks
Western Sydney Magpies

 

[Perth Red]

Could of, should of, didnt. We are where we are because the game throughout its history has been weak and unwilling to push itself (in UK and France as well as here) outside its comfort zone. Smith was the only CEO we have had that I felt had the vision and balls to try it, but the usual self interest soon drove him out. Vlandys is probably the worse in my 30 years following the game here, even more so than Gallop in some ways as Vlandys has the independence and cash to do something and hasnt.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Could of, should of, didnt. We are where we are because the game throughout its history has been weak and unwilling to push itself (in UK and France as well as here) outside its comfort zone. Smith was the only CEO we have had that I felt had the vision and balls to try it, but the usual self interest soon drove him out. Vlandys is probably the worse in my 30 years following the game here, even more so than Gallop in some ways as Vlandys has the independence and cash to do something and hasnt.

I recall Smith scheduling seven Round 1 games in Sydney and the eighth in Townsville during the tropical wet season.

 

[Perth Red]

I recall Smith scheduling seven Round 1 games in Sydney and the eighth in Townsville during the tropical wet season.

Pretty sure the ceo doesn’t do the scheduling lol

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Pretty sure the ceo doesn’t do the scheduling lol

I remember him talking it up.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Not sure that it does as having two teams in Brisbane won't necessary bring in more money or supporters - if x number watch NRL games on a regular basis as it is will that number increase as a result of the Dolphins admittance to the comp? - Not sure if folk in the Redcliffe catchment area are Bronco fans or not nor if they may switch to following the Dolphins.

Beneficiaries would be QLD Government with a game every week at Suncorp and hotels/pubs/clubs/restaurants etc. Losers could well be the Bronco's if x number of their fans/sponsors switch to the Dolphins and it will be interested to see the crowds both the Bronco's and Dolphins attract each home game. Dolphins may take some time before they are competitive one assumes so the Bronco's may have some breathing space before that happens.

To actually make more money and increase the supporter and viewer numbers they need to enter new markets and not increase the number of a teams in an already saturated sport market. So an 18th Team should come from a new market whether it be a second NZ team based on the North Island or a team based in Perth WA.

Immediately the number of RL supporters and viewers won't change much. However, it is the long-term securing of SEQ as a RL area that is at play here. The next generation will grow up with three clubs in SEQ and maybe a fourth in the future. It puts a squeeze on RU and AFL and makes it harder for them to put expansion teams in the area.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Immediately the number of RL supporters and viewers won't change much. However, it is the long-term securing of SEQ as a RL area that is at play here. The next generation will grow up with three clubs in SEQ and maybe a fourth in the future. It puts a squeeze on RU and AFL and makes it harder for them to put expansion teams in the area.

That's right. What we do today will determine where we are in 20 years. AwFuL benefitted nicely from Broncos being the only club in town for 25 years. If we put a third team in the greater Brisbane area then I cannot see AwFuL or Onionball having anywhere to expand.

 

[Perth Red]

Immediately the number of RL supporters and viewers won't change much. However, it is the long-term securing of SEQ as a RL area that is at play here. The next generation will grow up with three clubs in SEQ and maybe a fourth in the future. It puts a squeeze on RU and AFL and makes it harder for them to put expansion teams in the area.

I dont see any evidence that this is the case. if you're theory is correct then having nine NRL clubs in Sydney should mean that the AFL has virtually zero presence there, but that is not the case. Different people will follow different sports for a whole variety of reasons. RL seems to struggle to grasp this concept, hence why it continues to stagnate and not develop itself in new markets that it sees as rusted on to other sports.

 

[Perth Red]

\That's right. What we do today will determine where we are in 20 years. AwFuL benefitted nicely from Broncos being the only club in town for 25 years. If we put a third team in the greater Brisbane area then I cannot see AwFuL or Onionball having anywhere to expand.

AFL isnt expanding anymore for a very long time, and NLs footprint wont make a jot of difference to where it is.
If it does it wont be with another Brisbane club until the Lions are far more consistent in their off field performance. Tassie, Canberra, Perth3 are the lost likely candidates if AFL goes to 20 clubs.

 

[Colk]

I dont see any evidence that this is the case. if you're theory is correct then having nine NRL clubs in Sydney should mean that the AFL has virtually zero presence there, but that is not the case. Different people will follow different sports for a whole variety of reasons. RL seems to struggle to grasp this concept, hence why it continues to stagnate and not develop itself in new markets that it sees as rusted on to other sports.

Totally agree. RL fans seem to think that people can and predominantly only follow one sport which may have been the case 30 or 40 years ago but is completely absurd these days.

The transition from domestic/local influences to global influences; the transient nature of generation X and Y; subscription TV and online content and in particular reference to sports, ubiquitous gambling; means that people are exposed to a variety of sports and they often don’t have a cultural aversion to any particular sport. They may prefer particular sports but they will watch whatever they wish to watch and are quite open to that, so this idea of rusted on is quite perverse considering the society that we have nowadays.

 

[Colk]

Nobody watches NRL in Adelaide or Perth. They watch in Brisbane especially qldteams. Maximizing that audience will increase viewership

That’s only because they don’t have a side that represents that area. Think about it: would you follow a sport if you didn’t have a team that you could watch live or very little access to it on TV. It would be analogous to me saying that nobody would ever buy my product when I don’t sell to that area.

It is rather a perverse argument and you could only determine the veracity of that perspective once you have a team there.

Also, nobody has ever succeeded without taking a risk