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Has expansion actually brought in any more money?

Perth Red

Immortal
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49,776
i see
so... they never said they represent an area a long way from suncorp then ?
🙄
depends if you call Moreton Bay and Sunshine coast a long way from Suncorp? I havent yet heard them say they want to represent Brisbane which is where most people will be who will travel to Suncorp for their games. I guess being 'The' Dolphins they could represent anyone and everyone lol
 
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6,018
I know the faults of Cronulla, I’ve lived through them.
its hilarious that the fact is that you cant see that your initial statement about clubs being supported by the NRL brought a Qld side into the direct equation.
the fact is that the Titans were owned by the NRL, as were the Knights.
now scoot off and waste more of your time finding links for no reason, without finding one that says the Titans had to be bought and sold by the NRL.
The Titans were an expansion club added to a professional competition that came with high running costs during a very tumultuous period.

The Sharks have been in a perilous position for the bulk of the history, which spans back 50 years. The semi-professional era of the NSWRL was the right environment for a small club of Cronulla's size, but the game's conversion to fulltime professionalism has been a bridge too far.
 
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6,018
Rubbish


Sharks have more than turned their financial position around


The club will post a small $57,000 profit for their past financial year – a major transformation from a $5.45 million loss in 2019 – a result even better than the wealthiest club in the NRL.

Brisbane reported a $470,000 loss last financial year (2019) after their worst season on the field, which saw them collect the wooden spoon and agree to a severance package with coach Anthony Seibold.

Perth Red has already pointed out that Cronulla's small profit was based on handouts due to COVID-19, so I won't go into detail.

The Broncos were hit hard by crowd restrictions imposed by the Queensland Government and having to pay out Siebold's very lucrative contract. The Broncos can afford to do that because they generate twice as much revenue as any other club.

You're pretty stupid if you took the fluff piece posted by the Sharks seriously.

Are you so dumb you cannot see why I brought up the 2019 financials and not 2020?

2019 was the last year completely unaffected by COVID-19. It gives us a good understanding of how much revenue our current clubs generate from gate receipts, merchandise and memberships.

And what has that got to do with it dickhead
You carried on like an absolute dickhead about the colour scheme of Illawarra and St George not being comparable because the Steelers had a darker shade of red that was their primary colour, as opposed to the Dragons having a white jersey with a red chevron. You said all of this irrelevant and stupid shit after I pointed out the Dolphins have been made to add gold to their strip to not clash with St George. The traditional Redcliffe Dolphins jersey looked very much like the Steelers jersey you were claiming was so different to the Dragons that it didn't require the club to add a third colour. Get a clue.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
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49,776
The Titans were an expansion club added to professional competition with high running costs during a very tumultuous period. The Sharks have been in a perilous position for the bulk of the history, which spans back 50 years. The semi-professional era of the NSWRL was the right environment for a small club of Cronulla's size, but the game's conversion to fulltime professionalism has been a bridge too far.
A lot of Cronulla's more recent financial problems have been more to do with their terrible decisions/leadership than anything else though. If you add up all the fines they have had in recent years plus all the sponsors they have lost due to some poor press due to bad behaviour of club and players its not hard to see why they struggle. Like other clubs having a limited reach and therefore a small fanbase is not a good idea, hence why I am so against following the same path in Brisbane. Rather see two massive Brisbane clubs like our Perth AFL clubs being highly successful. not multiple suburban sydney clones struggling.
 
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12,503
The Titans were an expansion club added to a professional competition that came with high running costs during a very tumultuous period.

The Sharks have been in a perilous position for the bulk of the history, which spans back 50 years. The semi-professional era of the NSWRL was the right environment for a small club of Cronulla's size, but the game's conversion to fulltime professionalism has been a bridge too far.
Again, you originally stated about Sydney clubs being kept alive by the NRL, yet here you are when it was pointed out to you that a QLD club had in fact been kept alive by the NRL more recently, and you are once again making excuses for them. Now you change the goal posts to suit.
Face the fact, a Qld club was needed to be bought out by the NRL to survive.
Oh the pain.
 
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6,018
A lot of Cronulla's more recent financial problems have been more to do with their terrible decisions/leadership than anything else though. If you add up all the fines they have had in recent years plus all the sponsors they have lost due to some poor press due to bad behaviour of club and players its not hard to see why they struggle. Like other clubs having a limited reach and therefore a small fanbase is not a good idea, hence why I am so against following the same path in Brisbane. Rather see two massive Brisbane clubs like our Perth AFL clubs being highly successful. not multiple suburban sydney clones struggling.
My biggest gripe with Cronulla is they have no room to grow. They're surrounded by St George Illawarra Dragons to the north and south. The population of Sutherland is 230k.


There's not enough people nor capital in Sutherland to keep the Sharks competitive with the other clubs. Southern Sydney cannot support two clubs with its 500k population. Having both the Dragons and Sharks is as stupid as adding an NRL team in Ipswich and another in Logan. Even Paul Kent said there's no way we would have St George and Cronulla if starting the competition from scratch. Of course Rothfield disagreed. No surprise there.

Let St George take back their territory and represent all of Southern Sydney and Wollongong!
 
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15,117
There are a lot of RL fans in Brissy who either have no interest in the Broncos or outright despise them .
There's still plenty of fans who saw the vibrant local BRL comp basically shunted outa sight when the Broncos started so just like those with long memories of the SL war there are plenty who would probably follow Redcliffe as their team in the NRL while still supporting their BRL team .
Plus there'd be fans who support other teams in the NRl but would prob adopt the Dolphins as their second team as they ain't the BRONCOS .
 
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6,018
Again, you originally stated about Sydney clubs being kept alive by the NRL, yet here you are when it was pointed out to you that a QLD club had in fact been kept alive by the NRL more recently, and you are once again making excuses for them. Now you change the goal posts to suit.
Face the fact, a Qld club was needed to be bought out by the NRL to survive.
Oh the pain.
Expansion clubs struggle, both on and off the field, during their early years. Most leagues provide concessions to expansion clubs to ease the burden. The NRL didn't and ended up regretting it.

The GFC was a major hurdle that no one could have anticipated and it did set the Titans back.

Pointing out these factors isn't making excuses or shifting the goalposts. It's just pointing out the reality of the situation. It's erroneous to compare the Titians' unique struggles with a club that has been a financial basketcase since the game turned professional.

You're just trying to deflect attention away from your club's inability to pull its weight long after it was established.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
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49,776
There are a lot of RL fans in Brissy who either have no interest in the Broncos or outright despise them .
There's still plenty of fans who saw the vibrant local BRL comp basically shunted outa sight when the Broncos started so just like those with long memories of the SL war there are plenty who would probably follow Redcliffe as their team in the NRL while still supporting their BRL team .
Plus there'd be fans who support other teams in the NRl but would prob adopt the Dolphins as their second team as they ain't the BRONCOS .
The club study they did was really interesting and showed a significant number of engaged fans following other clubs who lived in Brisbane. Hopefully a big number of them jump on the Dolphins backs. If they do they could be massive. If they dont then they better start building a Storm level winning team to get fans interested!
 
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12,503
Expansion clubs struggle, both on and off the field, during their early years. Most leagues provide concessions to expansion clubs to ease the burden. The NRL didn't and ended up regretting it.

The GFC was a major hurdle that no one could have anticipated and it did set the Titans back.

Pointing out these factors isn't making excuses or shifting the goalposts. It's just pointing out the reality of the situation. It's erroneous to compare the Titians' unique struggles with a club that has been a financial basketcase since the game turned professional.

You're just trying to deflect attention away from your club's inability to pull its weight long after it was established.
I havent deflected from anything, in fact I havent disagreed with Cronullas precarious position once.
Here is what you said, and I quote:

"PVL bailed Cronulla out when they were bust, but said Dolphins need to be solvent. A massive double standard.

Any person from Sydney who looks at all of these facts and thinks Sydney teams are at a disadvantage is an idiot."

I merely pointed out to you that in fact The Titans had been fully bailed out, totally bought out, by the NRL, and BTW PVL did not "bail out" the Sharks, that implies giving them money, he merely supported them staying where they are.
Face the fact, that Qld team needed to be bought out by the NRL to survive because they were going to go totally under.
Now off you go with your "research". You can play your game, but forever in the truth there is this fact that a Qld team needed to "bailed out" by the NRL
 
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6,018
There are a lot of RL fans in Brissy who either have no interest in the Broncos or outright despise them .
There's still plenty of fans who saw the vibrant local BRL comp basically shunted outa sight when the Broncos started so just like those with long memories of the SL war there are plenty who would probably follow Redcliffe as their team in the NRL while still supporting their BRL team .
Plus there'd be fans who support other teams in the NRl but would prob adopt the Dolphins as their second team as they ain't the BRONCOS .
You are absolutely correct!

I support Wynnum Manly and North Queensland, but I'll also support The Dolphins at NRL level.
 
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2,502
depends if you call Moreton Bay and Sunshine coast a long way from Suncorp? I havent yet heard them say they want to represent Brisbane which is where most people will be who will travel to Suncorp for their games. I guess being 'The' Dolphins they could represent anyone and everyone lol
i see ..
sooo.. they never said they represent an area a long way from suncorp then ?
🙄
 
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3,801
Perth Red has already pointed out that Cronulla's small profit was based on handouts due to COVID-19, so I won't go into detail.

The Broncos were hit hard by crowd restrictions imposed by the Queensland Government and having to pay out Siebold's very lucrative contract. The Broncos can afford to do that because they generate twice as much revenue as any other club.

You're pretty stupid if you took the fluff piece posted by the Sharks seriously.

Are you so dumb you cannot see why I brought up the 2019 financials and not 2020?

2019 was the last year completely unaffected by COVID-19. It gives us a good understanding of how much revenue our current clubs generate from gate receipts, merchandise and memberships.


You carried on like an absolute dickhead about the colour scheme of Illawarra and St George not being comparable because the Steelers had a darker shade of red that was their primary colour, as opposed to the Dragons having a white jersey with a red chevron. You said all of this irrelevant and stupid shit after I pointed out the Dolphins have been made to add gold to their strip to not clash with St George. The traditional Redcliffe Dolphins jersey looked very much like the Steelers jersey you were claiming was so different to the Dragons that it didn't require the club to add a third colour. Get a clue.
Time for your tablets one feels- you're an angry ant or the mouse that roared.
 
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I havent deflected from anything, in fact I havent disagreed with Cronullas precarious position once.
Here is what you said, and I quote:

"PVL bailed Cronulla out when they were bust, but said Dolphins need to be solvent. A massive double standard.

Any person from Sydney who looks at all of these facts and thinks Sydney teams are at a disadvantage is an idiot."

I merely pointed out to you that in fact The Titans had been fully bailed out, totally bought out, by the NRL, and BTW PVL did not "bail out" the Sharks, that implies giving them money, he merely supported them staying where they are.
Face the fact, that Qld team needed to be bought out by the NRL to survive because they were going to go totally under.
Now off you go with your "research". You can play your game, but forever in the truth there is this fact that a Qld team needed to "bailed out" by the NRL
The ARLC wanted to relocate the Sharks or throw them out altogether. PVL talked them out of it. The club lost $5.45m in 2019 before COVID-19 hit.

Bailout money for COVID-19 in 2020 helped them sneak out of the red, but what happens when COVID-19 is gone and they have to fend for themselves on gate receipts, merchandise and sponsorship deals?

Cronulla are lucky COVID-19 hit when it did. With their Leagues Club closed over the last couple of years, there's a good chance they would have needed to spend much of the money they made from land sales. A couple of years losing $3m or $5m would have left them with very little to play with.
 
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12,503
The ARLC wanted to relocate the Sharks or throw them out altogether. PVL talked them out of it. The club lost $5.45m in 2019 before COVID-19 hit.

Bailout money for COVID-19 in 2020 helped them sneak out of the red, but what happens when COVID-19 is gone and they have to fend for themselves on gate receipts, merchandise and sponsorship deals?

Cronulla are lucky COVID-19 hit when it did. With their Leagues Club closed over the last couple of years, there's a good chance they would have needed to spend much of the money they made from land sales. A couple of years losing $3m or $5m would have left them with very little to play with.
You need to "research" better.
The Sharks were paid by the construction company for every year that the Leagues Club was down and having to relocate because of the construction. A few million a year or something. How many other Leagues Clubs made that much during the lockdown seasons?
Also, every club got "covid relief money" or as you like to call it, "bailed out by the NRL" during covid, that includes the three Queensland teams.
Oops for you.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
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49,776
You need to "research" better.
The Sharks were paid by the construction company for every year that the Leagues Club was down and having to relocate because of the construction. A few million a year or something. How many other Leagues Clubs made that much during the lockdown seasons?
Also, every club got "covid relief money" or as you like to call it, "bailed out by the NRL" during covid, that includes the three Queensland teams.
Oops for you.
Like he said lucky covid hit, sharks got $2.4mill in 2020 for moving out, their pokie revenue and game day takings dropped over $7mill that year. A $1.2mill nrl covid payment plus $2.5 mill job keepers pay out and the $2.4mill developers move out sweetner effectively saw them just about break even when you take out the developers $10mill. They have the best opportunity they have ever had to finally become sustainable now but they are not there yet. The losses they have made in last 5 years are eye watering and would have swallowed up a big chunk of the asset sale money.

That’s not to say there aren’t a number of other clubs in equally precarious situations, hence why the nrl keeps throwing extra money at them.
 
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12,503
Like he said lucky covid hit, sharks got $2.4mill in 2020 for moving out, their pokie revenue and game day takings dropped over $7mill that year. A $1.2mill nrl covid payment plus $2.5 mill job keepers pay out and the $2.4mill developers move out sweetner effectively saw them just about break even when you take out the developers $10mill. They have the best opportunity they have ever had to finally become sustainable now but they are not there yet. The losses they have made in last 5 years are eye watering and would have swallowed up a big chunk of the asset sale money.

That’s not to say there aren’t a number of other clubs in equally precarious situations, hence why the nrl keeps throwing extra money at them.
And this year they will have that plus the Kareela Golf Club to add.
 

blaza88z

Coach
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14,703
The Titans haven't been a success on or off the field but you really can't distance the blame from the club completely, they've made some terrible big name signings over the years, the only time they got it right was at the start
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,776
And this year they will have that plus the Kareela Golf Club to add.
They had the Golf club in the 2020 figures, it was bought in March 2019. If they can keep their noses clean and get the sponsors back and find a way to get the 12k crowds up to 15k plus then with the increased traffic in the LC and the golf club they should finally be ok financially. Its a shame they had to cash in on the ongoing commercial revenue as that would have been a good long term revenue source but needs must I suppose.

Whilst they turned around a 2019 $5.4milion loss in the FC operations in 2020 it was largely due to job keeper ($2.1mill), NRL grant bonus one offs ($1.6mill) and developer move out bonus ($2.4mill) which are all one off payments. Without them the books would have been just as ugly last year. Be interesting to see how they've gone for '21 when the annual report comes out in next couple of months.
 
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