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Have We Become Predictable?

hardbaby

Coach
Messages
17,006
Despite the score line it actually wasn't that bad a performance tonight. Our defence was great. We were a bit unlucky. Lockyer's kicking game was brilliant and Hodges was a handful. And for the second week in a row we played a team that had lifted massively to beat the bench mark side.

That said I just wonder if we have become a bit predictable. Sailor hits it up way too often on the first play. Whenever he gets close to the ruck the opposition knows he is going to get the ball - why not use him as a decoy and have him hit it up when the forwards have dented the line?

Creagh has been brilliant all year crashing onto short balls, then freeing his arms and looking for support. But our opposition knows this. Creagh had no room tonight.

Soward has the best kicking game in the league but he stands very shallow - the Broncos streamed through from dummy half all game and aimed at his left foot. Given the breeze in the first half and the fact that the Broncos back three were 50 metres down field where was the chip kick? Why not sow the seed of doubt?

Our props have had a very solid season but they don't offload often so you can get 4 guys in the tackle and know there is very little chance of second phase play. Watch the subtlety around Fui Fui Moi Moi's game for the Eels. You need variety.

Boyd is playing really good footy but he hasn't learned how to push through the defensive line. He stops, he props, he fends and does it very well but it also allows the inside defenders to shift onto him. I am firmly convinced that he is actually a winger, not a fullback (although his defence and work under the high ball is first rate).

I was watching the game at home on a 50 inch plasma and I reckon I accurately predicted about 80% of all the Dragons plays. Admittedly I am a fanatic supporter but if I know what we are doing, so too do the opposition coaches.

I am not going to slit my wrists over tonight's performance but I think for the first time our hero (Wayne Bennett) will need to make some changes. His game plan has been very effective this year but are we just a little bit too predictable? Our performance tonight reminded me more of the Dragons in rounds 1 to 4 than the Dragons of recent months.

On another note hats off to Beau Scott - he tried his arse off tonight but Jamie Soward has to learn how to tackle. He is a massive liability in defence (both tries came through him) and Scott can't be expected to take 2 men every time they spread the ball wide.

Any comments?
 

Bring back choc

Juniors
Messages
1,867
We were terrible. Totally dominated. Smith is unfit. Cooper is injured. Hint is hopless.
We has no big men driving forward tonight. I am worried.
 

ME SO HORNBY!

Juniors
Messages
2,324
Exactly what i thought tonight as well. We have been playing the same style all year and have been figured out. And is it just me or do the Dragons have just one set play that they pretty much have done all season? That set play was shut down all night.
 

TheRev

Coach
Messages
10,808
Yep hardbaby I agree with most of that:

- Boyd - He has great skill, but he does 2 things that really annoy me
1) he always gets pushed back into the in-goal, he needs to react faster and get low and drive asap, its so predictable.
2) He doesnt have faith in his skill to break the line, like u said, he fends off backwards, but if you watch a Haynes from tonight or a Hodges, they back themselves to break the line.

- Cooper - My fave player, but the opposition doesnt fear him in his current form/injury-state, hes just not going to break the line. But atleast hes strong in defence, but its a little hard to carry him if he cant run properly.

- Sailor - Same problem as Cooper, hes just not going to break the line, so it really narrows down the players that the defence need to watch, I still rate his experience though.

- Hornby - If their going to smash Soward everytime, maybe he needs to get more involved.. it was hard tonight, we had no space in attack all night, due to Broncs speed off the line.

- Creagh - Too predictable now, hes our only go-to man to burst through the line, and hes actually trying too hard atm, he shouldnt have to do it all... Also its unforgivable that there isnt someone backing him up 100% of the time, he breaks the line like noone else.

- Weyman - Seems to be losing the ball a lot lately, id rather he give up a few metres and hold onto it.

On a positive, Sowards kicking was awsome, Morris went better tonight, Scott is doing awsome. We actually defended great, but we were shown up by a side in better form than us tonight, lets hope we can turn around for 3 weeks time.
 

TheRev

Coach
Messages
10,808
Hmm I should say though.. that the whole team is still defending like legends, and they say defence wins games (especially finals), and based on that we should be happy.

Its just that if we get a team tonight with more individual stars who also defend like legends + offer more in attack, then we run into problems.. its a 50/50 battle really, a few lucky moments/decisions will decide it.
 

AJH

Juniors
Messages
52
To be honest I think that other teams have just caught up to where we've been for most of the year. The Dragons have been winning games through completing their sets and frustrating the opposition with defence. The Bulldogs have been doing it for most of the year as well, but it's starting to click for other teams now. And it's coincided with us being a bit flat (since the Melbourne game).

I also think that Soward has been very flat in attack recently. Last night he caught and passed to the player next to him almost exclusively (other than on fifth-tackle plays). One of the few times he cut-out the first runner and passed behind him to Scott was in the last ten minutes and Scott made a break (only to lose the ball). And the last time I saw him take on the line was when he scored against Penrith.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but I'm a bit confused as to why Soward is taking the tap restarts (after a penalty). Surely Young or Fien should be doing that with Soward free to create something off a set play. With Soward taking the tap Young is usually at first receiver and Hornby a bit wider. They seem to have taken a few steps backward in that respect.

Anyway, that's my 2cents. Not trying to pin it all on Soward - it's just what I'm seeing.

Here's hoping it's just temporary.

Cheers
AJ
 

STG-Dragon

Juniors
Messages
1,554
Despite the score line it actually wasn't that bad a performance tonight. Our defence was great. We were a bit unlucky. Lockyer's kicking game was brilliant and Hodges was a handful. And for the second week in a row we played a team that had lifted massively to beat the bench mark side.

That said I just wonder if we have become a bit predictable. Sailor hits it up way too often on the first play. Whenever he gets close to the ruck the opposition knows he is going to get the ball - why not use him as a decoy and have him hit it up when the forwards have dented the line?

Creagh has been brilliant all year crashing onto short balls, then freeing his arms and looking for support. But our opposition knows this. Creagh had no room tonight.

Soward has the best kicking game in the league but he stands very shallow - the Broncos streamed through from dummy half all game and aimed at his left foot. Given the breeze in the first half and the fact that the Broncos back three were 50 metres down field where was the chip kick? Why not sow the seed of doubt?

Our props have had a very solid season but they don't offload often so you can get 4 guys in the tackle and know there is very little chance of second phase play. Watch the subtlety around Fui Fui Moi Moi's game for the Eels. You need variety.

Boyd is playing really good footy but he hasn't learned how to push through the defensive line. He stops, he props, he fends and does it very well but it also allows the inside defenders to shift onto him. I am firmly convinced that he is actually a winger, not a fullback (although his defence and work under the high ball is first rate).

I was watching the game at home on a 50 inch plasma and I reckon I accurately predicted about 80% of all the Dragons plays. Admittedly I am a fanatic supporter but if I know what we are doing, so too do the opposition coaches.

I am not going to slit my wrists over tonight's performance but I think for the first time our hero (Wayne Bennett) will need to make some changes. His game plan has been very effective this year but are we just a little bit too predictable? Our performance tonight reminded me more of the Dragons in rounds 1 to 4 than the Dragons of recent months.

On another note hats off to Beau Scott - he tried his arse off tonight but Jamie Soward has to learn how to tackle. He is a massive liability in defence (both tries came through him) and Scott can't be expected to take 2 men every time they spread the ball wide.

Any comments?

I agree with that, I hope Wayne has something up his sleeve!
 

Gaba

First Grade
Messages
8,197
Despite the score line it actually wasn't that bad a performance tonight. Our defence was great. We were a bit unlucky. Lockyer's kicking game was brilliant and Hodges was a handful. And for the second week in a row we played a team that had lifted massively to beat the bench mark side.

That said I just wonder if we have become a bit predictable. Sailor hits it up way too often on the first play. Whenever he gets close to the ruck the opposition knows he is going to get the ball - why not use him as a decoy and have him hit it up when the forwards have dented the line?

Creagh has been brilliant all year crashing onto short balls, then freeing his arms and looking for support. But our opposition knows this. Creagh had no room tonight.

Soward has the best kicking game in the league but he stands very shallow - the Broncos streamed through from dummy half all game and aimed at his left foot. Given the breeze in the first half and the fact that the Broncos back three were 50 metres down field where was the chip kick? Why not sow the seed of doubt?

Our props have had a very solid season but they don't offload often so you can get 4 guys in the tackle and know there is very little chance of second phase play. Watch the subtlety around Fui Fui Moi Moi's game for the Eels. You need variety.

Boyd is playing really good footy but he hasn't learned how to push through the defensive line. He stops, he props, he fends and does it very well but it also allows the inside defenders to shift onto him. I am firmly convinced that he is actually a winger, not a fullback (although his defence and work under the high ball is first rate).

I was watching the game at home on a 50 inch plasma and I reckon I accurately predicted about 80% of all the Dragons plays. Admittedly I am a fanatic supporter but if I know what we are doing, so too do the opposition coaches.

I am not going to slit my wrists over tonight's performance but I think for the first time our hero (Wayne Bennett) will need to make some changes. His game plan has been very effective this year but are we just a little bit too predictable? Our performance tonight reminded me more of the Dragons in rounds 1 to 4 than the Dragons of recent months.

On another note hats off to Beau Scott - he tried his arse off tonight but Jamie Soward has to learn how to tackle. He is a massive liability in defence (both tries came through him) and Scott can't be expected to take 2 men every time they spread the ball wide.

Any comments?



think about it what the point of giving away tactics before the finals, why go hard wiht the sides who are fighting for places in the finals, when the dragons are safe in the top 4,how are the dragons going to benefit going 100% against a team what needs to play thier best just to make the finals.

There is no benefit at all
Just think about it
 
Last edited:

dragondad

First Grade
Messages
6,004
The two things that stood out all night were:
1. We didn't move up in defence, allowing the Broncos to build up steam and grab easy metres.
2. We didn't run onto the ball, just passing it along the line which it made it very easy to defend against.
It's not the fact that we have lost two games, it's the way we have played to lose them. It was even obvious to my eyes that we weren't particularly good against Penrith even though we beat them easily on the scoreboard.
We really need a strong performance against Souths to get some confidence back for the Parra game. It would be interesting to know what Benny has in store for them at training this week!
 

saints4ever

First Grade
Messages
8,259
Guys this is Wayne Bennett we are talking about...remember? You dont win six comps if you know nothing about form slides and confidence. The Broncs had their slump after origin 90% of the time, we seem to have ours a little later.
Anyone see the press conference? Bennett is not worried...yet.
Ok, no one like losing, least of all me, and the fact that we havent scored a try in over 100 minutes is rather terrible especially against the Broncos who leak points all over the place (EXCEPT f**kING LAST NIGHT).
We have two games to get it right.
Patten said on the footy show the Lebradors love the attention we are getting. If nothing else it will "prove" the telegraphs theory that we are choking, finals time and we have begun to struggle.
The defence is still there, and the attack that was so prosperous last against Melbourne has deflated. Whats the reason? I have no clue, but then again I dont get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to figure it out. But the bloke who does is the best coach in the comp.
They said we would struggle to make the eight - we have a home final.
They said our attack was abysmal - we had the best attack and defence in the league for weeks on end.
Now they will say the bubble has burst, and all fans especially the dogs will be loving this. "The dragons have been figured out", "Its all over".
Bennett has got us this far, and who knows, mayb he doesnt have what it takes to lead us to glory this year.
Maybe he just needs a new opportunity to prove it.
In Wayne We Trust.
 

St_Bondi

Juniors
Messages
126
All of the above are great observations. We are really flat at the moment and struggling. Our possession was limited last night by a hungrier team.

Does anyone know how many penalties the Broncos conceded by moving up inside the 10? They're speed off the line was the fastest I've seen all season. Shayne 'The Pain' Hayne and the other bloke pulled them up several times, however there was no warning so they continued to push the limits. This really hurt our go forward, even more so when we were trying to get off our line.

One loss going into the finals would have been better than two. As long as we don't have 3 or even worse, 4 losses going into the finals.

We'll be back :)
 

Efresh

Coach
Messages
11,477
I was watching the game at home on a 50 inch plasma and I reckon I accurately predicted about 80% of all the Dragons plays. Admittedly I am a fanatic supporter but if I know what we are doing, so too do the opposition coaches.

On another note hats off to Beau Scott - he tried his arse off tonight but Jamie Soward has to learn how to tackle. He is a massive liability in defence (both tries came through him) and Scott can't be expected to take 2 men every time they spread the ball wide.

Any comments?

To be fair to Soward, there were a number of occassions on which he comfortably dealt with Dave Taylor 1 on 1. Only Winterstein's try was due to Soward missing the hit. In the first try Dave Taylor was too strong for Soward, Sailor AND Scott.

I agree with you about looking predictable but I hope it is all coming off the back of the forwards not being able to get on top in recent weeks. Even if you know what the play is going to be when the Dragons shift to a long left side, if the defenders are isolated properly tacking Morris or Creagh 1 on 1 isn't any easier.
 

grandorient

Bench
Messages
4,047
What I am reading from some of these posts and indeed others on the forum, is that Wayne isn't particularly too concerned about about the matches leading up to the final.

That is, he is willing to even let the minor premiership go, and make a determined effort in the final series, to get to the GF. He is unwilling to bring out new tactics and game plans until the finals and is sticking to the plan that has been so successful all year. As has been said, other teams have indeed cottoned on to our style and game plans and are using tactice to combat them.

I am not suggesting for one moment that Wayne is not interested in winning the remaining games, but will not resort to showing the world his new tactics before the semi's.

Have I put that quite right, or am I a million miles off the mark??

GO
 

TheRev

Coach
Messages
10,808
Does anyone know how many penalties the Broncos conceded by moving up inside the 10? They're speed off the line was the fastest I've seen all season. Shayne 'The Pain' Hayne and the other bloke pulled them up several times, however there was no warning so they continued to push the limits. This really hurt our go forward, even more so when we were trying to get off our line.

Yeah I agree with that, they kind of beat us at our own game, they were on us before we had any foward momentum, and they smothered Soward, and you just cant attack when you have no room.... having said that Cooper/Sailor were liabilities in attack.

And yes I was wondering why they didn't threaten to sin-bin Broncos players for the constant infringements on the 10, it killed us.
 

saints4ever

First Grade
Messages
8,259
What I am reading from some of these posts and indeed others on the forum, is that Wayne isn't particularly too concerned about about the matches leading up to the final.

That is, he is willing to even let the minor premiership go, and make a determined effort in the final series, to get to the GF. He is unwilling to bring out new tactics and game plans until the finals and is sticking to the plan that has been so successful all year. As has been said, other teams have indeed cottoned on to our style and game plans and are using tactice to combat them.

I am not suggesting for one moment that Wayne is not interested in winning the remaining games, but will not resort to showing the world his new tactics before the semi's.

Have I put that quite right, or am I a million miles off the mark??

GO

Yes and no i think.
Bennett would never "throw a game" as they say, but he is a big exponent of "short term pain, long term gain". This could mean a variety of thngs though, like not even competing the GF this year could be a great thing for next year's squad.
Unlike the dogs, who are chasing the MP hard, we as a collective unit dont seem to give a f**k if we do or not. Bennett was quoted as saying "we will finish in the top three" last night. I honestly believe that if the dogs get the MP then they will struggle to lift another gear as we are seeing us do now.But we are chasing nothing except consistancy, something which we are having trouble finding for the first tie this year unfortuneately. They havent had their rough patch yet. And its getting awfully close to the end on the regular rounds...
 

SilentAssassin

Juniors
Messages
660
We will find out in a couple of weeks time. No disrespect to the bunnies but we SHOULD win that game. If not our finals campaign is in serious trouble.
 

LOYAL DRAGON

First Grade
Messages
5,654
its the best thing to happen to us if were going to win we need to have a good look at our self, make no mistake we have a lot of work to do and a huge mountain to climb, I for one thought we had it in the bag and have been brought back down to earth with a bang
 

SilentAssassin

Juniors
Messages
660
its the best thing to happen to us if were going to win we need to have a good look at our self, make no mistake we have a lot of work to do and a huge mountain to climb, I for one thought we had it in the bag and have been brought back down to earth with a bang

The only way I'd think it was in the bag is if we were in the grand final and had a 7 point lead with 30 seconds remaining.
 

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