Hayne to 6...

[oldmancraigy]

this is a joke, another hayne to five eigth thread, get over this stupid idea if you want our team to go any good leave him in his best position....... Fullback

+1111111111111111111

 

[Swiftstylez]

Yeahh nahhh...

It was tested and he didn't add as much to the team as he does from the back. Whilst he is a decent play maker, if you put him in that role all the time, his pace and freakish talent to create line breaks out of nothing is diminished because he is too tired from directing traffic. He needs to have the free reign to do what he wants when he wants, not be stuck up in the attacking line in a set position. Opposition defences were on to him even quicker in that position as they knew generally where he was going to be.

The reason Lockyer's talents were put to better use in the six is because he isn't as much of a power player like Hayne.

Also, Hayne isn't the only one getting credit whoever said that. The rest of the team, especially the forwards, still have to lay a platform for him to work his magic. They need to tire out the opposition and get them back pedaling. There were other magnificent performances all over the park last night, it's just that Hayne's shone the brightest. I don't think anyone is bitter in the Eels team of the attention that Hayne receives from the media... so neither should you be. It's a team game and his team mates value his contribution as it makes the lot of them play better too.

I think Cayless would be worshipping the ground he walks on considering it's his last year and without Hayne he wouldn't be able to compete in a potentially last successful finals series.

 

[True EEL]

Evidence of him not getting to bombs when it is clearly his?

I don't mind him trusting his team mates - that is what makes for a good defensive team --> no surprise that Parra are an elite level defensive team in the games that Hayne has played fullback the last 2 years.

I agree that he looks casual in the way he approaches the game - he looked pretty casual when he stepped 4-5 panthers and ran 80m to score.
He looks pretty casual returning the ball - but he makes more meters per kick return than any other fullback in the entire NRL (for years now).
He looks casual when he tidies up the ball in the in-goal too

But looking casual and playing crap are 2 unrelated things. They MAY go together, but do not of necessity require each other (ie they are mutually independant).

Hayne might look casual, but watch the footage - he's always there......

It's like Hindmarsh - if a winger runs 80m and scores a try and Hindy gets to him 2m out from the line, but misses the tackle, was Hindy crap?
No, he's a freak that he's even in a position to make a play.

Sometimes Hayne is across in Grothe's corner trying to tidy up a kick in behind that he really has no business being there to clean up. A try might get scored and the 'experts' say "bad positioning" - which is crap because it's a sensational effort even to be in the picture frame.

Just take some time watching his positioning behind the ruck and then ask yourself how come Parra are one of the best defensive teams in the league with him at fullback?

If he was so badly positioned as people pretend, then surely it would be as easy as 'kick behind, score' - OR we would be seeing Burt/ Inu doing all the clean up work?
But they don't, and Hayne continues to make more meters per kick return than anyone else in the entire NRL. You just can't do that if you're not getting to the ball in plenty of time.


I'm not having a dig at you TrueEel - just having a dig at the fiction. In the end the only reason people believe it is because they think 'well wouldn't he be Aussie fullback if he was well positioned defensively? Wouldn't he have been NSW FB for Origin I?'

Well, yes he should be....

all i can tell you is i see what i see.....

not saying he is inept, or even lazy, just that he is not always brilliant in defence at the back, you need to be objective about this and step back IMHO

 

[mrpwnd]

I honestly don't see too much of a difference in Haynes positional play when compared to Slater, Dugan, Mini,Stewart etc.
Every fullback is bound to let a ball bounce some-_- and i see it in Hayne as much as i do any other class fullback. The ONLY issue I have with Hayne is his lack of urgency when contesting bombs, other than that, his positional play has been exaggerated in criticism, something brought up from that Grothe spray(that was lol).
He may not be 'brilliant' in defense, but I don't rate fullbacks nor do i rate halves for their defense game, nor do I think they should be rated in such a way if their team is tackling properly.
I can certainly see Hayne getting another gig at 5/8, but it'll be when he starts being able to control and read the ruck better, atm he's at a point where hes starting to put some excellent playmaking, but that's because he knows when to come in. When he becomes 5/8, theres going to be more demand in playmaking and I don't think he has that level of control to do that yet

 

[Casper The Ghost]

I know if it aint broke, don't fix it.....
but i wouldn't say everything is fixed just yet, just coming together

but i do actually think that DA was ahead of his time playing Hayne at 6 early last year, because he was amazing last night, too the game by the scruff of the neck by playing second receiver.....

so, the real question is, if Parra really want to win the comp should DA do this...?

6. Hayne
7. Robson

these two seem to have a great understanding together
Robson is the steadying influence who has been playing 7 the past two games anyway
they both kick the ball predominantly in the team
Hayne was a dead set freak playing essentially at 6 last night - he took over the game

not sure what role Mortimer would take on - an granted he played ok last night - but i'm sure he could be accomodated elsewhere, can he play fullback? Could Jono Wright (who finally had a dig) play fullback??

thoughts....??

ps. i was convinced of this move throughout the game......before Hayne caught the ball 10 m out from his own line, beat Jennings 3 times on the same blade of grass, beat 2-3 other nuffies and then went the length of the field after being cleared for take-off....that made me wonder do you shift him??

NO.. instead put Hayne, Robson, Hindmarsh and Smith on the bench and only bring them on after 20 minutes then take them off again just before 1/2 time and then bring them back on with ten to go. :crazy:

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Yeahh nahhh...

It was tested and he didn't add as much to the team as he does from the back. Whilst he is a decent play maker, if you put him in that role all the time, his pace and freakish talent to create line breaks out of nothing is diminished because he is too tired from directing traffic. He needs to have the free reign to do what he wants when he wants, not be stuck up in the attacking line in a set position. Opposition defences were on to him even quicker in that position as they knew generally where he was going to be.

The reason Lockyer's talents were put to better use in the six is because he isn't as much of a power player like Hayne.

Also, Hayne isn't the only one getting credit whoever said that. The rest of the team, especially the forwards, still have to lay a platform for him to work his magic. They need to tire out the opposition and get them back pedaling. There were other magnificent performances all over the park last night, it's just that Hayne's shone the brightest. I don't think anyone is bitter in the Eels team of the attention that Hayne receives from the media... so neither should you be. It's a team game and his team mates value his contribution as it makes the lot of them play better too.

I think Cayless would be worshipping the ground he walks on considering it's his last year and without Hayne he wouldn't be able to compete in a potentially last successful finals series.

Excellent Post:thumb

 

[True EEL]

NO.. instead put Hayne, Robson, Hindmarsh and Smith on the bench and only bring them on after 20 minutes then take them off again just before 1/2 time and then bring them back on with ten to go. :crazy:

Casper......

with some of the things you put out there on this forum from the glass house you seem to live in.......i suggest you of all people should not throw stones ok....

when is Cooper coming for a start....??

 

[oldmancraigy]

all i can tell you is i see what i see.....

not saying he is inept, or even lazy, just that he is not always brilliant in defence at the back, you need to be objective about this and step back IMHO

Correction you are being subjective about this and need to step back.

When I ask you to be objective you say 'well, um, err - it's what I think'

Then I counter that with some evidence which strongly suggests otherwise, point out to you that a casual demeanor does NOT have to equate to not being there - and you say 'I see what I see'.

You've made my case - it's closed. You don't see what happens and the hard evidence is opposed to you. Like so many you don't watch closely enough or don't see what is actually going on out there.
Hayne is very well placed defensively and is the man I would prefer at the back if a rampaging forward (Shillington?) made a clean break. Watch Coote get stepped by MoiMoi and then watch Hayne bringing down Shillington - or Matai - or the list goes on.

IN YOUR OPINION he's a bad defender who is lazy and poorly positioned --> but (As per my previous posts) the EVIDENCE of proof stands against you. So unless you have evidence to prove your (incorrect) opinion on this matter, you need to stop spouting it...

You're not the only person I've asked for hard proof - but just like the others you don't have any...

 

[Suitman]

Watch Coote get stepped by MoiMoi and then watch Hayne bringing down Shillington - or Matai - or the list goes on.

I will never forget the tackle Hayne made in his First Grade debut at CUA Stadium. Rhys Wesser breaks the line flying towards the southern end posts and only has Hayne to beat. In those days, Wesser was on fire. Not many would have stopped him. Hayne brought him down in a copybook. Stopped him dead in his tracks. From that day onwards, I knew Hayne had what it takes.
All this positional questioning is just plain dumb.

Suity

 

[hybrideel]

is that the tackle where he was over the line but Hayne somehow managed to get himself under Wesser at full speed and hold the ball up?

 

[oldmancraigy]

I will never forget the tackle Hayne made in his First Grade debut at CUA Stadium. Rhys Wesser breaks the line flying towards the southern end posts and only has Hayne to beat. In those days, Wesser was on fire. Not many would have stopped him. Hayne brought him down in a copybook. Stopped him dead in his tracks. From that day onwards, I knew Hayne had what it takes.
All this positional questioning is just plain dumb.

Suity

but but but Suity - he MUST be poor in defense otherwise there's no reason why Gidley would've been picked at FB for NSW for 4 games in the last 2 series!

 

[True EEL]

Correction you are being subjective about this and need to step back.

When I ask you to be objective you say 'well, um, err - it's what I think'

Then I counter that with some evidence which strongly suggests otherwise, point out to you that a casual demeanor does NOT have to equate to not being there - and you say 'I see what I see'.

You've made my case - it's closed. You don't see what happens and the hard evidence is opposed to you. Like so many you don't watch closely enough or don't see what is actually going on out there.
Hayne is very well placed defensively and is the man I would prefer at the back if a rampaging forward (Shillington?) made a clean break. Watch Coote get stepped by MoiMoi and then watch Hayne bringing down Shillington - or Matai - or the list goes on.

IN YOUR OPINION he's a bad defender who is lazy and poorly positioned --> but (As per my previous posts) the EVIDENCE of proof stands against you. So unless you have evidence to prove your (incorrect) opinion on this matter, you need to stop spouting it...

You're not the only person I've asked for hard proof - but just like the others you don't have any...

Jesus H Christ!!!

I try and keep my calm on these boards, but dude take a pill....

i like your posts and often agree with much of what you have to say, but this time i disgaree ok, can we just agree to disagree???

ps. i NEVER sad Hayne was or is a bad/poor defender, never said he was lazy (read my post where i mentioned lazy) and never even said he is poorly positioned - i said he needs to work on his positional play as sometimes its not all that it could be (parapphrasing....)

so seriously.....i am not a Hayne hater, but obviously - just like Hindy, on these boards Hayne has never ahd a bad game or never done anything wrong - ever, period. Jesus.....???!!?

 

[True EEL]

I will never forget the tackle Hayne made in his First Grade debut at CUA Stadium. Rhys Wesser breaks the line flying towards the southern end posts and only has Hayne to beat. In those days, Wesser was on fire. Not many would have stopped him. Hayne brought him down in a copybook. Stopped him dead in his tracks. From that day onwards, I knew Hayne had what it takes.
All this positional questioning is just plain dumb.

Suity

and i agree, generally he gets people......but he missed a bloke badly the other nigth against Penrith....he knocked him over but someone else had to get him...

and let's never forget the night when we played the Cowboys earlier in the season when......Watts the back-up hooker left him clutching at air and ran around him and someone else got him....

Hayne is not Jesus in defence at fullback....but generally he is pretty bloody good though.....;-)

 

[True EEL]

Correction you are being subjective about this and need to step back.

When I ask you to be objective you say 'well, um, err - it's what I think'

Then I counter that with some evidence which strongly suggests otherwise, point out to you that a casual demeanor does NOT have to equate to not being there - and you say 'I see what I see'.

You've made my case - it's closed. You don't see what happens and the hard evidence is opposed to you. Like so many you don't watch closely enough or don't see what is actually going on out there.
Hayne is very well placed defensively and is the man I would prefer at the back if a rampaging forward (Shillington?) made a clean break. Watch Coote get stepped by MoiMoi and then watch Hayne bringing down Shillington - or Matai - or the list goes on.

IN YOUR OPINION he's a bad defender who is lazy and poorly positioned --> but (As per my previous posts) the EVIDENCE of proof stands against you. So unless you have evidence to prove your (incorrect) opinion on this matter, you need to stop spouting it...

You're not the only person I've asked for hard proof - but just like the others you don't have any...

there was your proof AGAIN tonight against the Roosters......

i love Jarryd, but......i'm honest enough to admit he was AGAIN badly out of position tonight in defence at Fullback.....too deep too often

- Aubusson's try
- the next try from a kick down our left flank (Burt also shares the blame on this one)
- a kick down our right flank that nerly led to a try
- other occasions

the Fox Sports guys were having a freaking field day about it and showing replays throughout the coverage with the headline Hayne's positional problems or words to that effect.......so there is your proof

Jarryd is an OUTSTANDING player - that is obvious for everyone to see - but he is often ill prepared as a defensive fullback and is more concerned with attack, and i maintain that for the moment Parra should try this option.....

6. Hayne
7. Robson

Mortimer was woeful again tonight and looked very worried on-field at the end of the game....Robson struggled at times too, but he is was trying to almost play too positions because of Mortimer's struggles.....

sadly for us, Brian Smith and the Roosters players exploited this one major weakness in Jarryd's game at the moment - and although it wasn't our only reason for losing the game as the team really underperformed, it certainly didn't help and put us on the backfoot and i think it also rattled Hayne as i think he knew he was out of position

Aubusson's try particularly - you kept thinking where is Jarryd, he'll come across in a second, but he barely even got to him as he crossed the line, it was very strange......

 

[mrpwnd]

there was your proof AGAIN tonight against the Roosters......

i love Jarryd, but......i'm honest enough to admit he was AGAIN badly out of position tonight in defence at Fullback.....too deep too often

- Aubusson's try
- the next try from a kick down our left flank (Burt also shares the blame on this one)
- a kick down our right flank that nerly led to a try
- other occasions

the Fox Sports guys were having a freaking field day about it and showing replays throughout the coverage with the headline Hayne's positional problems or words to that effect.......so there is your proof

Jarryd is an OUTSTANDING player - that is obvious for everyone to see - but he is often ill prepared as a defensive fullback and is more concerned with attack, and i maintain that for the moment Parra should try this option.....

6. Hayne
7. Robson

Mortimer was woeful again tonight and looked very worried on-field at the end of the game....Robson struggled at times too, but he is was trying to almost play too positions because of Mortimer's struggles.....

sadly for us, Brian Smith and the Roosters players exploited this one major weakness in Jarryd's game at the moment - and although it wasn't our only reason for losing the game as the team really underperformed, it certainly didn't help and put us on the backfoot and i think it also rattled Hayne as i think he knew he was out of position

Aubusson's try particularly - you kept thinking where is Jarryd, he'll come across in a second, but he barely even got to him as he crossed the line, it was very strange......

Problem with all those tries and laying even a tinge of blame on Hayne is that, there is nothing he could do to stop it. Most teams know how to butcher even the best defensive fullbacks after a good linebreak because it's just so easy, every time Hayne was on the spot in defense the roosters had a good 4-6 players coming in for support. Trust me, if we had any other fullback in the comp atm, those tries would've been scored regardless, i'm sure even the raiders fans would be hesitant to blame Dugan if he made that sort of call. Look at when the roosters were at their last tackles, there was little to no pressure on them, with that kind of freedom ANYONE, and i repeat ANYONE could make a fullback seem out of position. That said, I also don't believe Haynes positional play and defense is perfect, but hey, it's good enough that it doesn't detract from his overall potential in attack, but to lay any sort of blame to that, well, I can't agree.

 

[Schiltzenberger]

there was your proof AGAIN tonight against the Roosters......

i love Jarryd, but......i'm honest enough to admit he was AGAIN badly out of position tonight in defence at Fullback.....too deep too often

- Aubusson's try
- the next try from a kick down our left flank (Burt also shares the blame on this one)
- a kick down our right flank that nerly led to a try
- other occasions

the Fox Sports guys were having a freaking field day about it and showing replays throughout the coverage with the headline Hayne's positional problems or words to that effect.......so there is your proof

Jarryd is an OUTSTANDING player - that is obvious for everyone to see - but he is often ill prepared as a defensive fullback and is more concerned with attack, and i maintain that for the moment Parra should try this option.....

6. Hayne
7. Robson

Mortimer was woeful again tonight and looked very worried on-field at the end of the game....Robson struggled at times too, but he is was trying to almost play too positions because of Mortimer's struggles.....

sadly for us, Brian Smith and the Roosters players exploited this one major weakness in Jarryd's game at the moment - and although it wasn't our only reason for losing the game as the team really underperformed, it certainly didn't help and put us on the backfoot and i think it also rattled Hayne as i think he knew he was out of position

Aubusson's try particularly - you kept thinking where is Jarryd, he'll come across in a second, but he barely even got to him as he crossed the line, it was very strange......

+1
Hayne is woeful with positioning and always has been, it was just highlighted tonight by Smith and some decent halves.

When he was 1st put there a lot of fans agreed that he wasn't very good at playing fullback. He was lazy and gathered kicks far to slowly, he was bad positionally and never took charge when a bomb was put up. He'd often sit back and let other players catch a bomb when a normal fullback would get in there and claim it.

Then he started to score some tries and set some up, he was brilliant in attack, so all of a sudden he was not only the best fullback but best player in the game. :roll: It didn't matter that he still was crap when we were defending because he'd make up for most of those mistakes by scoring and setting up more tries.

I love Hayne and his attacking ability, especially when he is on fire, but he is not good for us defensively.

Problem with all those tries and laying even a tinge of blame on Hayne is that, there is nothing he could do to stop it. Most teams know how to butcher even the best defensive fullbacks after a good linebreak because it's just so easy, every time Hayne was on the spot in defense the roosters had a good 4-6 players coming in for support. Trust me, if we had any other fullback in the comp atm, those tries would've been scored regardless, i'm sure even the raiders fans would be hesitant to blame Dugan if he made that sort of call. Look at when the roosters were at their last tackles, there was little to no pressure on them, with that kind of freedom ANYONE, and i repeat ANYONE could make a fullback seem out of position. That said, I also don't believe Haynes positional play and defense is perfect, but hey, it's good enough that it doesn't detract from his overall potential in attack, but to lay any sort of blame to that, well, I can't agree.

The 1st try he wasn't following the ball, he was staying too far infield, most fullbacks would've had that covered.

The next try he did the same thing, he tracks across the field too slowly when the opposition spreads the ball. Most fullbacks would've got to the ball.

There was that other one in the 2nd half when they did a nothing kick and Hayne jogged over to the ball and had it kicked away from him as he went to pick it up. Every fullback in the comp would've gotten to that, Hayne looked as though he cbfb.

There were plenty of others, but it's all the same, he is either not tracking across the park following the ball closely enough or he is just moving to slow and showing no urgency.

I don't think he was the only reason for the loss though.
- Hayne obviously, poor position throughout the game.
- Roosters played great.
- They put lots of pressure on Parra when we tried to spread the ball. Parra always crumble when the defense puts pressure on, it's been like that for years.
- They won the ruck, slowed us down all night, hence they got penalised a lot, the job was done though. They conceded a few more penalties than usual but they never allowed us to get on a roll.
- Morts and Robson are the least creative and worst organising halves pairing in the competition.
- Smithy, he coached a great game, I was worried about this in the leadup.

So Hayne wasn't the only reason, but he helped them get out to a nice early lead. They got a lot of confidence from that and never looked back.

It's not the end of the world though, we bumped into a team on a roll with a former coach that was always going to try his best to beat his old team.

 

[Runaround Man]

I agree.
Very poor positional play and sadly lacks desperation in getting to the ball first.
Stands far too deep. Roosters had a field day with their kicks behind the line.

Lucky that Inu did the fantastic try saving on one of Haynes errors of being too deep, or they would have got 50. Inu played real well tonight. He really put in.

 

[Schiltzenberger]

I agree.
Very poor positional play and sadly lacks desperation in getting to the ball first.
Stands far too deep. Roosters had a field day with their kicks behind the line.

Lucky that Inu did the fantastic try saving on one of Haynes errors of being too deep, or they would have got 50. Inu played real well tonight. He really put in.

Yeah, sadly Inu has played pretty good since he signed with the Warriors.

 

[True EEL]

Sclitz + Runaround Man

glad to see there are some other objective, honest and realist Parra fans who have the guts to say what they saw RE: Jarryd and his deficiencies at times

and i forgot to point out that try in the 2nd half that he just jogged to the ball and then tried to pick it up on the run instead if diving on it and then Inu had to make the miracle save.....

 

[Kornstar]

Yep, all Hayne's fault.......don't blame the pathetic defence that hung off Carney and Pearce all night, that would be ludicrous!!!!

The players weren't interested in playing as a team, they were not playing for each other at all.....if you go in with the mentality of "let's just give it to Hayne" then we will get lapped and have every game we have tried it since the GF last year!

It is blindingly obvious that our halves are only solid when at their best (Hayne only needs solid halves imo) unfortunately they have been too often like they were last night which was below average.