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Hodges trick

R

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
nqboy said:
There must be a bit in there about passing forward to yourself. They had to outlaw it in the early days cos Dally Messenger kept tossing it over his opponents' heads, racing through and catching it and tearing away.
Click to expand...

That will be covered in the Messenger book being released in August ( http://www.RL1908.com/books/Dally-Messenger.htm ) - I found the actual incident that gave rise to that story.

I can't detail here what Messenger actually did (the publisher would not be happy with me if I did), but I can say that deliberately throwing/punching/knocking the ball forward was illegal in 1908, and it has been illegal ever since.

If a player had done in 1908 what Hodges did last night (unless you think he knocked it straight up) it would have been penalised. It was even illegal in the first RFU laws - and they were written in the 1870s.
http://www.rl1908.com/books/Dally-Messenger.htm
 
m0j0

m0j0

Bench
Messages
3,152
Raider_69 said:
anyone got footage of it?
Click to expand...

I've got the whole game on the PVR but I'd have to burn it to DVD, then DivX the section. I'll get around to it, it just won't be right away because I'm just about to sit down to 6 hours of footy. I'll try and get it done for you before the weekend is out.
 
Kurt Angle

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,713
The rule that applies in the ingoal is you can not be offside.

But throwing the ball to a player in front of you still gets you done for a forward pass.

The way around this is kicking.

If you are standing 1cm in front of the dead ball line, and you kick it to a team mate ahead of you, say on the try line. It is play on.
 
Danish

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,009
If he were that bloody smart he would have just told the forward who was already standing dead to catch it at award brisbane a penalty on half way.


How is Vossy's form calling it in the top 5 greatest plays of the last 20 years :lol:
 
Charlie124

Charlie124

First Grade
Messages
8,509
I thought the only time throwing the ball to yourself was illegal was if you were throwing it over an opponants head and regathering it. I thought it was explained pretty much straight away that what hodges did was fine.
 
R

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
Charlie124 said:
I thought the only time throwing the ball to yourself was illegal was if you were throwing it over an opponants head and regathering it. I thought it was explained pretty much straight away that what hodges did was fine.
Click to expand...

That is pretty much the attitude of the NRL referees - as with many things though, it doesn't tie-in with the current wording of the laws of the game. Deliberately throwing or knocking the ball forward is illegal - even if there is no defender within a mile of you.

Having just watched the video of Hodges again, I'm convinced he threw it straight up, which is not forward & perfectly legal.
 
P

*Paul*

Juniors
Messages
2,151
I don't think was forward either
hodges.jpg


The Q of Qantas says static in relation the lines, so that indicates the camera was still, but the ball (the smudge above Hodges' left shoulder in the lower pic) has moved toward the dead ball line.
 
H

Hazy

Juniors
Messages
157
If Hodges was out of the in-goal (in the field of play) and juggled the ball (maybe even propelling it forward) it would have been play on.

Unless of course it touched an opponent or the ground.

If a player is taking a bomb (or any other kick- or even a pass) in the field of play and juggles the ball - knocking it forward, maybe even steppng backwards at the same time but then recovers the ball before it hits the ground or an opponent - it would be play on.

The only difference here is that Hodges stepped out of the field of play.

As long as he was in the field of play while touching the ball - ie not touching the ball with a foot grounded over the dead ball line - play on.

If an opposing player was bearing down on him - and Hodges tapped, batted, threw, (inadvertently propelled) the ball forward - over or past the opposition player, then the "Dally M" rule MAY be appropriate.

I don't have the "Dally M" wording at hand, so I'm just working on the principle (or the vibe - quoting the Castle)

Maybe not quite in the top 5 of the last 20 years, but legal non the less.

And I think "deliberately throwing or knocking the ball forward" infers a level of control over the ball not quite achievable when in the act of receiving a kick or pass.
 
Ghoulies

Ghoulies

Bench
Messages
3,948
Maybe if you're sick of hearing about Johns, you should stop bringing him into irrelevant topics?

Just an idea.
 
Marshall_magic

Marshall_magic

Coach
Messages
14,935
It reminds me of one Chris Heighington did last year, he threw the ball to himself, the Parramatta defence read it as a pass and he went through a giant gap to set up a try.
 
jimmy_the_greek

jimmy_the_greek

Bench
Messages
3,325
like they said on the sunday roast, regarding with what hodges did, the only time it would have been wrong, was if you are throwing the ball over, a player of the opposition side and regathering the ball, regarding what hodges did, it was very well played, and has been very consistent so far this season.
 
NPK

NPK

Bench
Messages
4,670
jimmy_the_greek said:
like they said on the sunday roast, regarding with what hodges did, the only time it would have been wrong, was if you are throwing the ball over, a player of the opposition side and regathering the ball, regarding what hodges did, it was very well played, and has been very consistent so far this season.
Click to expand...
I agree, but, you don't need, so many, commas. :D
 
R

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
Hazy said:
If Hodges was out of the in-goal (in the field of play) and juggled the ball (maybe even propelling it forward) it would have been play on.

Unless of course it touched an opponent or the ground.

If a player is taking a bomb (or any other kick- or even a pass) in the field of play and juggles the ball - knocking it forward, maybe even steppng backwards at the same time but then recovers the ball before it hits the ground or an opponent - it would be play on.

The only difference here is that Hodges stepped out of the field of play.

As long as he was in the field of play while touching the ball - ie not touching the ball with a foot grounded over the dead ball line - play on.

If an opposing player was bearing down on him - and Hodges tapped, batted, threw, (inadvertently propelled) the ball forward - over or past the opposition player, then the "Dally M" rule MAY be appropriate.

I don't have the "Dally M" wording at hand, so I'm just working on the principle (or the vibe - quoting the Castle)

Maybe not quite in the top 5 of the last 20 years, but legal non the less.

And I think "deliberately throwing or knocking the ball forward" infers a level of control over the ball not quite achievable when in the act of receiving a kick or pass.
Click to expand...

The key point is whether the action was accidental or deliberate. Accidental knock forward is legal, deliberate is not legal.

As for Dally M, the knock/throw forward rule was the same in his time as it is today. It was the same in the 1870s and when RL started in 1895. It is still the same in the NRL and RU today. The only difference is that RL officials over recent decades haven't enforced the law in the manner it is worded.

As for what Hodges did, while it was clever it was also the wrong choice - he should have simply let the ball go dead and get a penalty at half-way for his team.
 
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