How do we get the crowds to internationals?

[titoelcolombiano]

Rugby League internationals rate really well in TV in Australia. The Kangaroos rate better than the Wallabies and better than Socceroos and Matildas non world cup internationals.

For that matter games involving the Kiwis, Tonga and Samoa rate really well too. In fact the Pacific Championship game between Fiji and PNG last year outdated the Bledisloe.

I believe that when the England RL team gets on FTA TV in the UK, they rate pretty well, much more than any Superleague club game can rate, meaning the national side has the ability to reach more viewers.

We've seen the Islanders in NZ go crazy for the Tonga and Samoa sides and to a slightly lesser extend (oddly) the Kiwis.

There's clearly interest in international games and tournaments. So the question is, why aren't the crowds there? Don't get me wrong, last year's Pacific Championships crowds were impressive and the upcoming Ashes looks like it will be the highest attended ever, but why can't the Kangaroos pull 52k to Suncorp, 90k to the MCG and (likely) 80k to Accor like the Wallabies can?

Why can't the Kangaroos v Kiwis which soundly beats the RU version of the rivalry in TV ratings and is arguably more competitive, draw Bledisloe level attendances? Meaning, pretty much an instant sell-out anywhere in Australia or New Zealand.

I hear non Union and Soccer fans say that they attend Wallabies, the Socceroos or the Matildas matches, not because they love that sport, but because they love their country and want to support the team that represents the country. So why doesn't this automatically apply to the Kangaroos too that based on TV ratings are just as popular with arguably as much or more star power in the Australian market than any of those teams?

Common reasons given are:

Scheduling and promotion: Yep, I can see it being somewhat of an issue, we still don't have a Pacific Championship schedule and it supposedly starts in 3 months. But the world cup doesn't suffer from that issue and attendances aren't much better for that tournament than the Pacific Championships.

Competition: I don't see it. The Australia v NZ rivalry has been more competitive in RL than it has been in RU for about 20 years at this point. Tonga has beaten NZ in 2017 and Australia and GB in 2019. Fiji beat NZ in 2017 and pushes them hard at the 2022 WC and Samoa have beaten England at the 2022 WC. Both Samoa and Tonga are much stronger today than they were then.

England/GB has not beaten Australia since 2006 but it's not like they are getting lapped either. The last time they played was the 2017 WC Final (not acceptable, way too long between games) and England lost by 6. St Helens and Wigan have shown against Penrith that whilst the depth isn't there, England have enough top end talent at home and enough players running around the NRL to remain reasonably competitive.

If you include England as outsiders, you have 5 teams that could win the World Cup next year, and God knows who will win the Pacific Championships this year. Plus if the PNG NRL team develops local talent like we all hope it will, you can make that 6 teams.

Not having a regular calendar of events:

I don't buy this one either...

2004: Tri Nations
2005: Tri Nations
2006: Tri Nations
2007: Kiwis toured England
2008: World Cup
2009: 4 Nations
2010: 4 Nations
2011: 4 Nations
2012: Autumn International Series (Europe)
2013: World Cup
2014: 4 Nations
2015: Kiwis toured England
2016: 4 Nations
2017: World Cup
2018: Kiwis toured England
2019: Oceania Cup / Lions tour of NZ & Pacific
2020 & 2021: COVID
2022: World Cup
2023: Pacific Championships/Tonga toured England
2024: Pacific Championships/Samoa toured England
2025: Pacific Championships/Ashes
2026: World Cup

So what is it then? Is purely down to more promotion? It's not like any Rugby League fan can say they don't know either the Pacific Championships or the World Cup are on. Why the lack of enthusiasm for mainly Kangaroos (in terms of crowds) but international RL in general when clearly there is interest there.

 

[Perth Red]

Until the arlc take internationals serious it won’t happen. Media is fixated on origin and see kangaroos as a poor second. Arlc can’t future plan, now nearly august and still no dates, venues or tickets for pacific cup in 3 months.

needs things to be taken seriously if we want fans to invest time and money in it.

 

[Last Week]

Until the arlc take internationals serious it won’t happen. Media is fixated on origin and see kangaroos as a poor second. Arlc can’t future plan, now nearly august and still no dates, venues or tickets for pacific cup in 3 months.

needs things to be taken seriously if we want fans to invest time and money in it.

I agree with that.

The ARLC talk like the Kangaroos are the pinnacle, but they're not prioritized as such.

I also think it's cultural for RL fans in Australia. Go to club and Origin matches, but the Kangaroos? Na.

 

[eels4lifee]

Once another nation wins the WC other then the same old Australian Kangaroos then they'll be more interest in International Rugby League. I see why Australians are turned off International RL. Just look at the Pacific Final last year, there was 25k Samoan fans and probably 3k Aussie fans, now thats really embarrassing, it should be the other way around. So we need England to beat us in the Ashes this year and that will create more interest in the WC next year. I hope they do beat us on their home soil, this will only be healthy for the game and thats all i want. But instead Rugby League fans prefer club footy and Origin over Internationals, and Origin is the pinnacle of RL and the best Rugby on the planet wether it be League or Union. Oneday i hope International footy would be as big as Origin

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I don't think weakening the Kangaroos aura would be positive for the international game. I think it's a selling point, they are the Good standard team, RLs All Blacks that everyone is excited to play.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Until the arlc take internationals serious it won’t happen. Media is fixated on origin and see kangaroos as a poor second. Arlc can’t future plan, now nearly august and still no dates, venues or tickets for pacific cup in 3 months.

needs things to be taken seriously if we want fans to invest time and money in it.

I agree with that.

The ARLC talk like the Kangaroos are the pinnacle, but they're not prioritized as such.

I also think it's cultural for RL fans in Australia. Go to club and Origin matches, but the Kangaroos? Na.

I don't disagree with these points, but why are they the best rating Australian team on TV but the worst attended at the stadium?

Seems like people are interested, but just won't attend like with other national teams.

 

[Perth Red]

I think it goes much deeper than just bored of winning. Australi could lose the next three competitions and it wouldn’t make any difference. England fans turn out and England has lost for decades!

you just dont see the national pride in tne kangaroos like you see for pretty much every other national side

 

[taste2taste]

Australian league fans are well aware we are the only country that play it at a high level and have no interest in watching the Kangaroos belt everyone by 30+

The crowds will come if the Kangaroos start to get beaten regularly and if internationals are played often enough to build rivalries.

 

[Perth Red]

Australian league fans are well aware we are the only country that play it at a high level and have no interest in watching the Kangaroos belt everyone by 30+

The crowds will come if the Kangaroos start to get beaten regularly and if internationals are played often enough to build rivalries.

The only 30 point gap in the last 8 test matches was when australia got flogged 30-0!

 

[Taking The Two]

England does pretty well for TV viewers when on FTA TV over here.

We also do alright in World Cup’s as well for actual attendances . The lowest World Cup crowd in 2021 was 18,760 in Sheffield, which isn’t a rugby league city (plus it was Greece as opponents) and 22,276 in 2013. The big issue is the rest of the time. 15k and 16k against Samoa, 11k, 12k and 15k against Tonga and then there’s 8k and 5k against France in England and crowds of 4k and 9k when the ridiculous Combined Nations were revived.

Our issue is basically just everything with the game. We don’t typically organise games well in advance so can’t sell tickets in advance, our opponents are limited for mid-season games because the French are awful and England have a God complex and believe they should be playing better nations despite being abysmal themselves and we don’t have the history or heritage behind tests compared to how we do with the Ashes. The 4 Nations were good for England and attendances but sadly that went.

 

[Matua]

Call it Nation of Origin, attaching the Origin brand will make Aussies go to it, although TBF it should really be called Nation of Parents (and soon to be Grand Parents) Origin.

Also we need to have the best teams available, the Kiwis couldn't get close to their best available team last year due to the dominance of the club game.

Also, maybe just have a schedule that everyone knows about? I don't even know if or when the Kiwis are playing this year and whether they'll be close to the best available team.

 

[taste2taste]

Call it Nation of Origin, attaching the Origin brand will make Aussies go to it, although TBF it should really be called Nation of Parents (and soon to be Grand Parents) Origin.

Happens in all sports mate, the Union Tongan and Samoan sides are made up largely by kiwis and have you seen the hoopla about the Lions having more kiwis and Aussies than Welsh ?

The Olympics had a Jamaican diver with a British accent and a Japanese surfer with blue eyes, blonde hair and an Aussies accent who was born and raised in Cronulla.

 

[siv]

Simple 2 fortnights of rep football

3 SOO games then Oz team selected

In parrallel a 4 nations NZ, Samoa, Tonga, PNG

TOP team after 3 rounds plays Australia on 4th weekend

Make internationals relevant again

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Year One
Mid Season rep window with three match series
Post Season Regional Confederations Cup Quals

Year Two
Mid Season rep window with three match series
Post Season Confederations Cup; Test series for those who don't qualify

Year Three
Mid Season rep window with regional World Cup Qualifiers (only hosts and champions auto qualify)
Post Season rep window with remaining world cup qualifiers, repecharges etc. This is also the time for tours for those already qualified I.e. Kangaroo/Lions tour.

Year Four
Mid Season rep window with exhibition tests promoting world cup
Post Season rep window World Cup

Biggest reason people don't take them seriously is because the game doesn't. It's so ad-hoc and made up in the fly. Give it stakes, and people will come.

 

[taste2taste]

Simple 2 fortnights of rep football

3 SOO games then Oz team selected

In parrallel a 4 nations NZ, Samoa, Tonga, PNG

TOP team after 3 rounds plays Australia on 4th weekend

Make internationals relevant again

The only problem with that idea is that Samoa and Tonga will be without thier Origin players.

Thier games will lose appeal for fans with thier B team. And theyll get smashed by NZ

 

[taste2taste]

Year One
Mid Season rep window with three match series
Post Season Regional Confederations Cup Quals

Year Two
Mid Season rep window with three match series
Post Season Confederations Cup; Test series for those who don't qualify

Year Three
Mid Season rep window with regional World Cup Qualifiers (only hosts and champions auto qualify)
Post Season rep window with remaining world cup qualifiers, repecharges etc. This is also the time for tours for those already qualified I.e. Kangaroo/Lions tour.

Year Four
Mid Season rep window with exhibition tests promoting world cup
Post Season rep window World Cup

Biggest reason people don't take them seriously is because the game doesn't. It's so ad-hoc and made up in the fly. Give it stakes, and people will come.

Add to that, bringing back the Anzac Test and putting it on the stage it deserves by playing it on Anzac Day.

Thatll give int footy credability and show the fans the NRL is serious about it.....

But NO!, the NRL prefer club games.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

The only problem with that idea is that Samoa and Tonga will be without thier Origin players.

Thier games will lose appeal for fans with thier B team. And theyll get smashed by NZ

With regular, meaningful fixtures, and more homegrown talent from the Islands, in 10-15 years, this won't be an issue.

Equal pay across the rep window would make things very interesting as well.

 

[Matua]

Happens in all sports mate, the Union Tongan and Samoan sides are made up largely by kiwis and have you seen the hoopla about the Lions having more kiwis and Aussies than Welsh ?

The Olympics had a Jamaican diver with a British accent and a Japanese surfer with blue eyes, blonde hair and an Aussies accent who was born and raised in Cronulla.

My comment was more about Origin than the make ups of the team.

The only problem with that idea is that Samoa and Tonga will be without thier Origin players.

Thier games will lose appeal for fans with thier B team. And theyll get smashed by NZ

That would work out perfectly since we're always without our Origin players.

 

[Matua]

With regular, meaningful fixtures, and more homegrown talent from the Islands, in 10-15 years, this won't be an issue.

Equal pay across the rep window would make things very interesting as well.

Do you think this is realistic? I think in 10-15 years there will be real issues as the number of parents and more especially grandparents born in the islands will be decreasing.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Do you think this is realistic? I think in 10-15 years there will be real issues as the number of parents and more especially grandparents born in the islands will be decreasing.

Steady flow of rsv workers gaining residency and NZ highschools raiding Island talent will keep things trucking along.