How the west would win - Cup means new stadium

[El Diablo]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/footbal...win--cup-means-new-stadium-20100321-qo4i.html

How the west would win - Cup means new stadium
ROY MASTERS
March 22, 2010

SYDNEY will have a 45,000-seat rectangular stadium at Blacktown, providing Australia wins the bid to host football's World Cup, delivering a serious rebuff to the AFL's expansion plans in the west of the city.

The new ground will be built in Blacktown's green Olympic precinct, next to the baseball and softball diamonds used during the 2000 Sydney Games and close to the AFL's western Sydney training ground, built to accommodate 10,000 spectators.

The AFL has been lobbying Football Federation Australia and the NSW and federal governments to support a redevelopment of Sydney Showground at Sydney Olympic Park as a World Cup venue and its later conversion to an AFL ground, which would be home to the Team GWS AFL club and new FFA team, Sydney Rovers, both set to enter their national competitions in 2012.

Instead, Blacktown will be one of the 12 stadiums listed in FFA's bid book submitted to FIFA on May 14. An FFA spokesman said: ''FFA's preferred option is a new stadium at Blacktown, rather than a redevelopment at Homebush. Blacktown, not Homebush, will be listed as one of Australia's 12 stadiums.''

The AFL has therefore suffered a double rebuff, being denied a home ground for its western Sydney club courtesy of the taxpayer and forced to train in the shadows of a jewel built for rugby league, rugby union and football on open-space greenland.

The Blacktown stadium would be scaled back to accommodate 30,000-35,000 after the World Cup. While the Blacktown stadium is contingent on Australia winning the bid to host the 2018 or 2022 World Cup, there is growing confidence Australia is favourite for the 2022 tournament. The two main rivals, the US and Qatar, have problems.

The US hosted the 1994 World Cup, which failed to ignite a boom in the sport in the world's richest country. Furthermore, US visa restrictions in a post-September 11 world would make it extremely difficult for some of the family of the world's most popular game to gain accreditation.

In Qatar it can be as hot as 51 degrees in July, and it would be forced to build 12 air-conditioned stadiums and training facilities.

Australia is perceived as a ''developing region'' of the world game, and FIFA has a record of awarding World Cups to countries nascent economically, or in playing numbers. South Africa will host this year's World Cup and Brazil the 2014 tournament, and Japan and South Korea staged the 2002 event. Many FFA officials privately concede Australia has lost the 2018 race to England, the nation that invented the game.

However, should Australia win the 2022 show, it is an opportunity for Sydney to wrest the title of ''sporting capital of Australia'' from Melbourne, the city that has awarded itself the status of sporting capital of the known universe.

Sydney would have three World Cup venues - ANZ Stadium at Homebush Bay, the Sydney Football Stadium and the Blacktown site - compared with Melbourne's sole site, the Melbourne Cricket Ground.

The AFL chief executive, Andrew Demetriou, has barred FIFA use of Etihad Stadium, a 52,000-seat, roofed facility in Melbourne's Docklands. The AFL has a 25-year lease on the stadium, owning it in 2022, and it insists on playing there during the June-July World Cup period.

While the FFA refuses to publicly criticise the AFL for its intransigence over Etihad, it admits it will disadvantage Victorians who will see only four or five World Cup games at the MCG and low-interest pool games in Geelong, which would be redeveloped if the bid was successful. The 85,000-seat ANZ stadium in Sydney would almost certainly be chosen for the biggest show on earth, the FIFA World Cup final.

The NRL has been more co-operative than the AFL in accommodating the FFA's wishes, although a stadium at Blacktown is not its preferred site in the compensation packages the major codes expect for disruptions to their seasons.

A new stadium in the south-western growth corridor past Fairfield would have better suited rugby league development plans.

 

[El Diablo]

Roy enjoyed telling the Victorians this on Offsiders this morning

 

[bartman]

The NRL has been more co-operative than the AFL in accommodating the FFA's wishes, although a stadium at Blacktown is not its preferred site in the compensation packages the major codes expect for disruptions to their seasons.

A new stadium in the south-western growth corridor past Fairfield would have better suited rugby league development plans.

Yep, can't see what a Blacktown ground like this gets our game? Something for Wests or Canterbury in their current catchment areas would have been better in return for messing up our season to accommodate soccer games.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Yep, can't see what a Blacktown ground like this gets our game? Something for Wests or Canterbury in their current catchment areas would have been better in return for messing up our season to accommodate soccer games.

Rugby League fans are honestly the most negative sports fans on the planet...

 

[Dogs Of War]

The AFL has been lobbying Football Federation Australia and the NSW and federal governments to support a redevelopment of Sydney Showground at Sydney Olympic Park as a World Cup venue and its later conversion to an AFL ground, which would be home to the Team GWS AFL club and new FFA team, Sydney Rovers, both set to enter their national competitions in 2012.

Why would the Rovers want to play out of that ground? It is very poor for rectangular ground games. Not to mention the Rovers would be better off playing out of Parramatta and Penrith grounds or something like that to start with.

 

[adamkungl]

Yep, can't see what a Blacktown ground like this gets our game? Something for Wests or Canterbury in their current catchment areas would have been better in return for messing up our season to accommodate soccer games.

Something in Liverpool would be excellent for both Wests and the Dogs.

Blacktown would be vaguely useful for Parra or Penrith big games, but more useful imo would be further upgrades to Parra and CUA - neither Parra or Penrith would want to play at Blacktown ideally.

 

[m0nty]

Frank Lowy would like to have a 35-45k Blacktown stadium paid for by the public purse. What Frank Lowy wants, he doesn't always get. He does get Roy Masters to shill for him, though.

I'm not sure how Lowy is going to justify only giving Melbourne one group and Sydney two. At the moment it looks like the eight groups are going to be Sydney (SFS/ANZ), Blacktown/Newcastle, Melbourne/Geelong, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, Gold Coast/Townsville, Canberra. Yet the A-League, which otherwise covers pretty much the same footprint, has a far bigger crowd base in Melbourne than Sydney. Good old Lowy pro-Sydney bias, in the face of all financial sense.

Roy may be crowing about this because it feeds his hatred of Melbourne, but this could actually be worst-case scenario for rugby league. If Sydney does get two groups, say goodbye to bucketloads of sponsorship and consumer spend in the NRL for that whole year. Plus the AFL gets upgrades to AFL grounds in Gold Coast, Geelong, Adelaide and Perth while the NRL only gets slight upgrades to Brisbane and Newcastle... plus this alleged new ground.

Does anybody remember a very similar story in December which named Campbelltown as the likely venue for the new stadium? What's the bet the location will change again? Lowy is weeing in the wind.

 

[Goddo]

^ It has more to do with the stadiums issue. Victoriania have basically put forward crap stadium options (partly thanks to AFL)

You reap what you sow. Sydney has much better football stadiums for league and soccer, and more need for legacy stadiums.

 

[El Diablo]

Plus the AFL gets upgrades to AFL grounds in Gold Coast, Geelong, Adelaide and Perth while the NRL only gets slight upgrades to Brisbane and Newcastle... plus this alleged new ground..

boggerball fans are not too bright

there would be big 45,000 seat stadiums in Blacktown, Canberra, Newcastle and Townsville if they were to get it.

drip

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...goals-for-league/story-e6frfgh6-1225843491249

World Cup to kick goals for league

* By Andrew Webster
* From: The Daily Telegraph
* March 22, 2010 12:00AM

DO YOU have any idea what you'll be doing in eight years' time? What about 12? Some of us have no idea what will happen tomorrow, let alone today, or even what they should write in the next paragraph of this column ...

Or the paragraph after this ...

Nope. Still got nothing ...

This is a luxury Football Federation Australia cannot afford as it pieces together its bid for the 2018 or 2022 World Cups. Its technical submission must land at FIFA headquarters in Zurich by May 14 and the clock is ticking.

Similarly, other major football codes must soon make some heavy decisions. Decisions about a tournament involving another sport that may or may not happen, long into the future. It's complicated.

So far, AFL boss Andrew Demetriou has protected his code's patch like he's watched The Castle too many times- "Tell Frank Lowy he's dreamin' " - yet the NRL should do whatever it can to let the second-biggest show on earth (behind the summer Olympics) roll into town.

News emerged yesterday that the Federal and State Governments had given a financial guarantee to the FFA that a shimmering, rectangular, 45,000-seat stadium would be built in Blacktown for the use of league, union and soccer should it be handed the World Cup.

It is an almighty two-fingered salute to Vladimir Demetriou, who has belligerently insisted Etihad Stadium cannot be used.

While the FFA would not comment and the NRL is sketchy on the details about the proposal, it effectively means the AFL can kiss goodbye any chance of a redevelopment of the Sydney Showgrounds at Homebush to accommodate its GWS franchise. "Tell Andrew Demetriou he's dreamin' ", in other words.

The AFL disappeared up its own bottom years ago and seems completely content up there. Good luck to it. The NRL should not make the same mistake.

While it has publicly made the right noises about "not standing in the way of the World Cup bid", behind the scenes there is a definite air of obstinacy that it is not showing the rest of the world.

The effect on State of Origin, which falls directly into the period when the tournament would be played, is an aside. Of major concern is the fact the SFS, ANZ Stadium and stadiums in Townsville, Canberra and Newcastle would be out of action.

The NRL - along with the AFL and rugby union - raised the issue of financial compensation at a meeting in Canberra with the Federal Government taskforce that is assigned to coordinate the bid, but nothing was guaranteed.

Either way, you cannot see the Federal Government throwing truckloads of cash in compensation should their competitions be affected. As taxpayers, neither should we.

The clear payoff for league is simple. The Government intends to throw in no less than $2.5 billion to redevelop stadiums and infrastructure around the country.

That means beautiful new stadiums in Townsville, Canberra and Newcastle with capacities of 45,000, which could stay at that size or come back to no less than 30,000 when the World Cup is done.

If yesterday's talk is to be believed, it will also translate into another new facility in Blacktown, where the AFL is desperately trying to pinch rugby league hearts and minds.

Squeezing Origin and other games into smaller stadiums for three months, for one season, is a small concession for league to make if it receives such infrastructure.

The game has never been good at focusing on the big picture - it's still bitching and moaning about the structure of an independent commission - but it shouldn't disappear up its own bottom when the rest of the world comes to visit.

 

[Goddo]

Not as good for us as the Campbelltown proposal (10 Dec 2009, http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...to-seal-the-deal/story-e6frexnr-1225808841638). Who would play there? Parra and Penrith maybe for the odd game, but seems a bit of a white elephant if its just for the Rovers.

What I'd like to see is if its built to 44k and 10k are removed after the WC, could we have the end stands relocated to say Parramatta? That would leave Blacktown 35k, and boost Parra to 30k.

Roy also said on Offsiders on Sunday that Origin may be played at Etihad and even possibly one game at Wembley in London.

 

[Goddo]

Heres a run down on what the stadiums are now:

Melbourne - - MCG - - 100,000 - - But crap for soccer and RL. 5000 seats are standing room (not allowed for WC). Sightlines of lower tier pathetic. Most seats outside the FIFA specified max distance from pitch. A lot of seats in corners of pitch. Pitch size WAY outside FIFA regulations.

Sydney - - ANZ Stadium - - 90,000 - - redeveloped with roof and retractable end seating, likely final venue

Brisbane - - Suncorp Stadium - - 60,000 - - I don't know how they plan to squeeze the extra capacity in

Perth - - Stadium WA - - 60,000 - - Retractable lower tier stadium. Not confirmed yet because of political issues in Perth with their Premier

Adelaide - - Adelaide Oval - - 50,000 - - Now it looks like Labor will win the State election, AO is locked in

Sydney - - SFS - - 46,000

Townsville - - DF Stadium - - 44,000 - - Will have to be reduced as not sustainable

Gold Coast - - Carrara - - 44,000 - - Commonwealth Games used as an excuse to build the AFL a ground

Newcastle - - EA Stadium - - 44,000

Canberra - - New Stadium - - 44,000 - - Next door to Canberra Stadium

Geelong - - Skilled Stadium - - 44,000 - - AFL strikes again

Blacktown - - New Stadium - - 44,000

For mine, I think AFL gains more than anyone.

MCG will be upgraded, ANZ will still be multipurpose, New multipurpose big stadium for Perth, Adelaide Oval, Gold Coast, current Canberra Stadium turned back into an oval, Geelong, and I read somewhere that they will get the showground redevelopment in some form.

For us, we get:

ANZ rectangularisable, slightly bigger Suncorp, Multipurpose Perth maybe for the odd origin, the current proposal for a 30k ish rectangular stadium to be built in Perth, SFS will get a spit shine, a too big Townsville, Newcastle, Canberra, and a stadium in the middle of nowhere in Blacktown.

We need more, I think soccer needs more too. I hope the training venues see some good deals for us. Belmore upgrade as a sports science and training venue for the Dogs is a start.

 

[RufusRex]

A Parramatta/Penrith joint venture playing out of a 44k stadium in Blacktown?

 

[Goddo]

North Queensland, Brisbane, Newcastle, Canberra, Canterbury, South Sydney, and Sydney would be displaced.

You could use Ballymore or ANZ for the Broncos, Newcastle could play at Gosford, Roosters and Rabbitohs could use the SCG or Kogarah, Bulldogs could use Kogarah or the Showground or somewhere.

Don't know how to keep the Raiders and Cowboys playing near home though. Raiders could maybe use their current stadium if its still there, and Cowboys could take a game to Darwin, Cairns or Perth. Maybe schedule away games. Use the Origin split rounds. Could work okay.

Teams will still need to be compensated though, as they all have agreements with stadiums, members, corporates and sponsors which will be disrupted.

I can understand why AFL wants Etihad. They can't cope with change very well.

 

[m0nty]

Goddo makes a good point, the NRL will be more displaced than the AFL. The AFL can still play four matches per week at Etihad Stadium, one at the Gabba, one at AAMI Stadium, one at the WACA, and one at Blacktown. Throw in Aurora Stadium in Launceston, Manuka Oval in Canberra and TIO Stadium in Darwin to take the pressure off Etihad and they can still run a full season without having to drop half of the schedule.

I would like to see a similar list of contingency venues for the NRL.

 

[GCR]

So we end up with a handful of grounds upgraded beyond the necessary capacity and a new stadium where we don't need or want one - and all we have to do is risk the financial viability of half our clubs, derail a couple of seasons and destabilise the game for around a decade? Yeah, I reckon the soccer boys can piss off and come up with a better proposal that actually benefits our sport. Or they can piss off and play kick-around in a country that cares, it doesn't bother me.

 

[jargan83]

Perth - - Stadium WA - - 60,000 - - Retractable lower tier stadium. Not confirmed yet because of political issues in Perth with their Premier

The Multi-Pupose/upgrade of Subiaco stadium here in Perth was put on hold by the accidental premier for at least 2 years and he seems to be sticking by it.

Members Equity Stadium will apparently be getting upgraded with work to start in August this year (not set in stone yet and waiting for the budget announcement). That will take MES to 27,000 capacity but obviously does nothing for a possible World Cup hosting situation

 

[Timbo]

The stadium issues have been caused by the idiodic Victorians.

They have essentially demanded all of the big games be played in Melbourne, whilst denying access to Etihad Stadium (which is the ideal cup venue in Melbourne) and putting forward a moronic plan to use Geelong as a venue (great soccer legacy there!).

If they want to shoot themselves in the foot and Sydney is the better for it, why not let them I say.

 

[Goddo]

The next step is a compensation package. Obviously, it will cause the NRL problems, and we should be compensated for it.

How much is a lot harder to work out though. What we need is an agreement that we will be compensated, but that the amount is to be determined in the future when we are more likely to understand the full impact on the NRL.

So we need an in principle agreement from FFA and the Federal Government regarding compo, to be calculated in say 2020.

 

[Timbo]

The Multi-Pupose/upgrade of Subiaco stadium here in Perth was put on hold by the accidental premier for at least 2 years and he seems to be sticking by it.

Members Equity Stadium will apparently be getting upgraded with work to start in August this year (not set in stone yet and waiting for the budget announcement). That will take MES to 27,000 capacity but obviously does nothing for a possible World Cup hosting situation

Stadium WA is dead, the Subiaco redevelopment is barely cup acceptable (and on hold for that matter) and MES is going to get a cursory upgrade taking it to Super 15, A-League and NRL standard - not FIFA.

Truthfully, taking the stadium debacle in Perth into account and the distance Perth is from the other host cities, I would not be shocked if when FIFA culls the venues (you need to submit more venues than you need in the bid book, then FIFA decided which will be the final 10) they cut Perth out entirely.

 

[Timbo]

The next step is a compensation package. Obviously, it will cause the NRL problems, and we should be compensated for it.

How much is a lot harder to work out though. What we need is an agreement that we will be compensated, but that the amount is to be determined in the future when we are more likely to understand the full impact on the NRL.

So we need an in principle agreement from FFA and the Federal Government regarding compo, to be calculated in say 2020.

But really it isn't that big an issue for the NRL. And to the NRL's credit, they know they will recieve compo out of this and have not dug their heels in at all.

The NRL can do three things when the FIFA World Cup is here:

1 - Suspend the competition entirely.
2 - Have a 'country cup' or some other muck about tournament.
3 - Continue as usual.

I think 1 and 2 are unlikely. The problem is with three, there will be a number of teams displaced due to FIFAs regulations with the grounds.

Still, this doesn't affect us all that badly. Every team to be displaced would have an option.

As it stands, the teams likely to be evicted would be Easts, Souths, Canterbury, Wests, Newcastle, Canberra, Brisbane and North Queensland.

It's easy really. Easts and Souths can use the SCG, or Kogarah or somewhere not too far. Canterbury can use the Showground or Parramatta. Wests can just play their Leichardt/Campbelltown fixtures in this time. Newcastle may have to head down to Gosford. Canberra can use Manuka. Brisbane the Gabba or Ballymore and North Queensland can use Cazaly's or Barlowe in Cairns.

Origin is a bit of an issue. It would have to be played at the SCG and the Gabba I guess.

It's the AFL who are having a massive whinge and stuffing things up.