How to give each club a $7m salary cap

[Canard]

I think there would be interest in the 2nd teir comp, and most real fans of the game would adopt a team to follow.

Why dont people go out and support the "second tier" comps that exist now though? Why isnt the QRL, NSWRL comps. Where is this magical pot of money coming from? If it existed why dont the State Leagues go and get it now (even 50% of 20million would be good).

Do "real" or "hardcore" fans that have enough disposable income to support 2 clubs (A top tier and bottom tier one)?

 

[Perth Red]

They've just got rid of relegation in the Uk for good reason!

 

[Pigskin]

Why dont people go out and support the "second tier" comps that exist now though? Why isnt the QRL, NSWRL comps. Where is this magical pot of money coming from? If it existed why dont the State Leagues go and get it now (even 50% of 20million would be good).

Do "real" or "hardcore" fans that have enough disposable income to support 2 clubs (A top tier and bottom tier one)?

very few support local league ... agreed

2nd teir league would be a much higher standard than what we currently have, all games would be on TV, and it would contain some pretty decent players

what is the amount of money spent on a NSWRL or QCup club now ? Would be a couple of hundred thousand at the most ... I'm suggesting going up to semi professional and the 2 million mark

The Balmain Tigers get together a pretty decent side for the second division and look set to go up to the top flight in the next year or two ... Proton Cars can sponsor them now with contract (eek ... contract) clauses in place that if they go up to the big league they get x amount more or, alternatively, they are sponsored for 3 years at a flat rate, slightly inflated for 2nd division but way unders for national exposure at a reduced rate ... companies might take a punt on such a proposal

I'm just bandying ideas around ... I'm sure much smarter people than I could come up with the finer detail ... Moffo makes the suggestion and I'm jsut saying I think it has some merit

Its better than most on here just saying no to every change that is put forward ... oh I might lose my beloved Sharks or Panthers or whatever boo hooo ...

Newsflash ... might lose the lot if something constructive isn't done

Oink !

 

[Perth Red]

Jim Beam cup teams operate on around $3-500K and Q'land cup teams on around $750-1mill

 

[blaine train]

Simple

• 2 Tiers
• 10 teams in the elite comp
• 10 in the 'first division'
• 2 up 2 down relegation system each year
• First division managed and promoted by the ARL/NSWRL. Separate TV deal
• NRL focusses on the elite comp. TV deal renegotiated and each club is given a $7m cap from the money saved by having less teams in the elite comp and a better TV deal
• $7m allows the elite squad of 25 to be paid twice as much
• 4 new teams in the first division from Perth, 2nd Brisbane, Central Coast and NZ teams
• Challenge Cup is created to ensure that all teams potentially play against each other once a year

Don't think it would work? Go study up on the premier league.

Thanks

Cheers,
Moffo

Think it will work based on the most popular sport in Britain? Go study up on how much bigger the crowds, sponsorship and tv deal is in Britain. Third division clubs have a similar average crowd to the NRL. Thar's teams 41-60, in a very centralised country. Promotion/relegation won't work in Australia, Australians are too fickle and relegation for most would mean going bust.

 

[Eels Dude]

Everybody in this thread is getting side-tracked comparing the NRL to the EPL. Which they can't be.

Back to the initial proposal, I think it has some merit. 10 teams x 7 million is obviously 70 million, and then the second teir comp ... teams could perhaps (pulling figures out of the air) have a cap of 2 million. Thats 90 million all up vs the current 64 million we spend all up.

Only a shortfall of 26 million that surely could be made up through the usual avenues. I'd also advocate a small portion of gate receipts from the top flight contributing to the 2nd teir clubs.

It would be important for lower division sides to be their own entity and not simply a feeder club for the top flight clubs. They are gonna need their own backers and ambition or it won't work.

Not that we want to take it a step further, but for arguments sake, is there anything to stop the premiers in the NSWRL and the QCup going up to 2nd division if their finances are in order ?

The lower division teams could have a combination of youngsters, journeymen, washed up old players ... with the odd couple of top flight standard players thrown in.

I think there would be interest in the 2nd teir comp, and most real fans of the game would adopt a team to follow. If the top flight can't increase crowds in a big way under these guidelines, then we truly have no hope.

working in Legends proposal, a top flight comp of 10 teams would be 18 rounds + finals, and then the WCC to make up the number of home games to comfort the CEO's and give all something to strive for.

A top 5 finals system, top 4 playing in the WCC, bottom 2 dropping down a division, you can't tell me there wouldn't be a lot of games with real importance.

anyway, i like the idea ... email it to the Wok and see if you get any air time

Oink !

If you're going to have a promotion relegation system you need to have the salary cap the same for both competitions otherwise it will unfairly effect player contracts.

But if we keep the salary cap the same then second tier clubs probably won't be making as much money and whether they can afford to stay in the competition once relegated needs to be considered.

 

[Luc]

But if we keep the salary cap the same then second tier clubs probably won't be making as much money and whether they can afford to stay in the competition once relegated needs to be considered.

But wouldn't that come down to distribution of television revenue, which forms the bulk of clubs' income?

 

[Eels Dude]

But wouldn't that come down to distribution of television revenue, which forms the bulk of clubs' income?

Club's recieve a 4m grant from the NRL from what I understand, the rest is their own income. It will also come down to gate receipts, sponsorship etc. The 2nd tier clubs will struggle to get anywhere near what the top clubs get in this situation.

 

[Moffo]

Everybody in this thread is getting side-tracked comparing the NRL to the EPL. Which they can't be.

Back to the initial proposal, I think it has some merit. 10 teams x 7 million is obviously 70 million, and then the second teir comp ... teams could perhaps (pulling figures out of the air) have a cap of 2 million. Thats 90 million all up vs the current 64 million we spend all up.

Only a shortfall of 26 million that surely could be made up through the usual avenues. I'd also advocate a small portion of gate receipts from the top flight contributing to the 2nd teir clubs.

It would be important for lower division sides to be their own entity and not simply a feeder club for the top flight clubs. They are gonna need their own backers and ambition or it won't work.

Not that we want to take it a step further, but for arguments sake, is there anything to stop the premiers in the NSWRL and the QCup going up to 2nd division if their finances are in order ?

The lower division teams could have a combination of youngsters, journeymen, washed up old players ... with the odd couple of top flight standard players thrown in.

I think there would be interest in the 2nd teir comp, and most real fans of the game would adopt a team to follow. If the top flight can't increase crowds in a big way under these guidelines, then we truly have no hope.

working in Legends proposal, a top flight comp of 10 teams would be 18 rounds + finals, and then the WCC to make up the number of home games to comfort the CEO's and give all something to strive for.

A top 5 finals system, top 4 playing in the WCC, bottom 2 dropping down a division, you can't tell me there wouldn't be a lot of games with real importance.

anyway, i like the idea ... email it to the Wok and see if you get any air time

Oink !

cheers mate, sick of people trying to railroad it with silly comparisons

whats the woks email?

 

[Moffo]

Think it will work based on the most popular sport in Britain? Go study up on how much bigger the crowds, sponsorship and tv deal is in Britain. Third division clubs have a similar average crowd to the NRL. Thar's teams 41-60, in a very centralised country. Promotion/relegation won't work in Australia, Australians are too fickle and relegation for most would mean going bust.

for the last time, i am not putting the NRL comp on par with the EPL. the NRL operates on a smaller scale but you DO NOT need a big population to make promotion/relegation work

australians are too fickle? wtf do you mean by that? what does that have to do with relegation? a lot of league fans i know would like nothing more then to go out to leichhardt on a sunday and watch the tigers play newtown or souths.

the correlation between a relegation system and fickle is zero. it makes no sense in the context of what im saying

 

[Moffo]

Club's recieve a 4m grant from the NRL from what I understand, the rest is their own income. It will also come down to gate receipts, sponsorship etc. The 2nd tier clubs will struggle to get anywhere near what the top clubs get in this situation.

they won't need as big a grant because the game won't be on the same scale, wont have to pay as much for players etc etc....

 

[bazza]

I would image a 12 team top division

6 games per week.
TV games as follows:
FTA: Friday night, Sunday afternoon (2)
Pay: 2 x Saturday, Sunday afternoon, Monday Night (3)

This leaves a few slots to show a few games for the 2nd tier comp as well.
This includes: Saturday afternoon (3pm), Sunday afternoon.
There is also the chance to keep 2 Friday night games.

The 2nd tier games could also be shown during the week or on extra digital channels

Also when SOO and Test matches are on, there can be split rounds in the top tier and the 2nd tier can get a few extra matches on TV then

So the top tier can get more money from few teams sharing the pot and getting more exposure and the 2nd tier can make money from the (lesser) TV deal for their game.

You might even end up with more RL matches being shown in total

 

[Canard]

a lot of league fans i know would like nothing more then to go out to leichhardt on a sunday and watch the tigers play newtown or souths.

Cant you already do that now for a NSWRL run competition game (correct me if Im wrong Im a QLDer and I dont really understand the nature of Sydney League lower tiers after all the changes recently)

When you say a "lot" its more like about 1500 to 2000 people tops Im guessing is average crowd.

I just think that is naive to think that by contriving a "new" second tier comp that TV networks would fall over themselves to pay for it millions of dollars for it, and that fans would turn up in droves to support it.

 

[Chapsta]

Where's the demand for another tier of professional Rugby League?:?

 

[Perth Red]

The reason why P&R has been got rid of in ESL is

A) It is very damaging to clubs who get relegated due to the best players leaving and the club having to operate on a smaller income
B) Promoted clubs not being competitive as they can't attract enough players from finding out when they were promoted to starting the season
C) The gulf between a 1st tier and a 2nd tier is so huge that any team going up is on a hiding to nothing and any team going down either walks it or falls apart.

The 1st tier teams will operate on a budget of up to $20mill, the 2nd tier $2mill tops. How on earth can a team from the 2nd tier move up? It's a non starter, give it up!

 

[Pigskin]

can make a comment to Warren Ryan at the bottom of this link - http://blogs.abc.net.au/grandstand/2008/07/coachs-corner.html?site=rugby_league

combine some of the stuff from this thread and see if you get a response - cheers

Oink !

 

[bazza]

Where's the demand for another tier of professional Rugby League?:?

There is demand for people to see their "traditional" team play e.g. Balmain, Cronulla, Souths, Penrith, Parramatta, North Sydney.

The Gold Coast Titans has shown that there is demand to watch high level rugby league in areas that do not currently have a high level RL team.

To keep everyone happy we could have a 30 teams in a single, average level competition or you can have 30 teams split into 2 competitions - 1 that is super high standard and one that is above average

 

[ali]

Simple

• 2 Tiers
• 10 teams in the elite comp
• 10 in the 'first division'
• 2 up 2 down relegation system each year
• First division managed and promoted by the ARL/NSWRL. Separate TV deal
• NRL focusses on the elite comp. TV deal renegotiated and each club is given a $7m cap from the money saved by having less teams in the elite comp and a better TV deal
• $7m allows the elite squad of 25 to be paid twice as much
• 4 new teams in the first division from Perth, 2nd Brisbane, Central Coast and NZ teams
• Challenge Cup is created to ensure that all teams potentially play against each other once a year

Don't think it would work? Go study up on the premier league.

Thanks

Cheers,
Moffo

I like it. The current competition wont grow whilst we pander to the weakest clubs.

 

[Eels Dude]

they won't need as big a grant because the game won't be on the same scale, wont have to pay as much for players etc etc....

These are the reason why I think it won't work


Salary Cap - You need to keep the salary cap even between the two tiers as per player contracts and the promotion and relegation system. However, if this is the case, the clubs at the bottom end of tier 2 are not going to financially compete with the clubs at in Tier 1, or the top of Tier 2.

Clubs at the bottom end of Tier 2 are going to have little or no chance of being promoted... They'll get poor crowds, little sponsorship... and they'll eventually die off as they cannot afford to compete in the NRL anymore.

Clubs in Tier 1 will thrive... It'll end up a yoyo effect like the EPL in promotion and relegation so the same clubs will be promoted and relegated every year.

It will end up destroying the purpose of the salary cap. There will end up being 5 - 6 very strong clubs. 7 or 8 reasonable clubs... and 5 or 6 clubs who are extremely weak in comparison to the rest and thus face the possibility of extinction.

 

[Moffo]

tier 1 will thrive but it wont alienate all of the fans that are in tier 2. it gives them an interest, what is wrong with that?