some decent points here
*Spend money on Education, Hospitals etc.......well, sounds good except for one thing. The stuff circling the news these days about hospitals, crap education system etc is a State Government problem, not one to be fixed by throwing Federal government money at it. In fact, throwing money at it is not the solution at all, as it will only serve to give the State Government the opportunity to continue to turn a blind eye to the real problem - pathetic mismanagement of critical public sectors. Spending 200mil to fix the crap NSW hospital system is a down right waste of Federal Surplus, when it would cost 1/100th of that to clean out the top ranks of the systems, pay out contracts, and put in people who really know what they are doing and who actually care about their jobs. I 100% agree with fixing these things, but not by State Governments demanding or just receiving Federal funds.
*It's not a solution to the Earth's problems/We'll just do the same anyway wherever we go - We will do the same no matter where we go, because using resources is part of human existance. The solution is to all kill ourselves to preserve what is lifeless. The Earth is not lifeless, thus we need to take steps to preserve it. But no matter what we do, we are eventually going to plunder the Earth dry. A switch to a hydrogen ecomony still means we use up valuable resources, which in many, many cases will mean water, which most definately cannot be screwed up. If we wait too long to find other sources that will allow us to stop pillaging the Earth, then it will be too late. It's going to take a century to get it all up and running now anyways, so if we start today we can still look forward to a 2100 timeline before we have our stuff together. Wait any longer and the deadline keeps moving back. Now you may all think you are going to be dead by then, but do you really want to leave the Earth in a state where our great-great grandchildren have no opportunity to live with a high standard of living? That's just plain selfish.
redeel said:
you obviously have no moral responsibilities , are not married have no children etc ,to worry about this sort of far fetched dribble. but seriously I personally think we should sort out our messes here on earth[ which will never happen] b4 we go tackling this sort of thing. you will probably agree with me if you have ever been sick or had a kid that is sick and try to explain to them they must suffer for hours befor a doc can take a look at you when taken to a hospital at 3 in the morn.
Sorry mate, but I take offense to that. This is all about moral responsibility. Thing is, I'm thinking beyond my own little existance here. Fine, go ahead, think only about those people who you actually know, this is the mindset that has put the Earth in the sh*thole position we are in now. I may not have kids, but I do have a family and friends that I love very much. I want the best for them and their families. But is this more important than the bigger picture, the one that helps to ensure that humanity has a lifespan that exists beyond the next 150 years that it will take to render this planet inhabitable? Not on your life. I consider your statement to be myopic and selfish, and one that will continue to shove this beautiful planet down the gurgler that we have been sliding down for the last 200 odd years. If we don't break the finite bonds that hold us to this rock, what chance do we actually have? Really? No amount of money is gonna fix this planet up if we have to keep raping it in order to get to the finite amount of resources that we NEED to live. Oh, maybe you wanna go back to the Stone Age and live by huddling around a fire and having to fight for your life every day? Didn't think so.
Redback71 said:
and how do we know those rocks aint there for a purpose and once removed thru mining what damage could be caused to surrounding plantets and so forth.
No offense, but that is laughable. Seriously no offe4nse, mate. The asteroid belt has such a loose distribution that, while altering its mass would actually affect the orbital plane of the other planets, it would be negligable. Unless you are talking some divine plan, which is a hard case to argue against since it has absolutely no objective validity to base itself on. On top of which, by the time we get around to significantly altering the distributed mass of the belt in order to affect even Mars' or Jupiters' orbits, we would have developed enough technology to move on beyond the Solar System, at which point (and trust me on this) Earth and our system will have become meaningless. Now that's even hard for me to say, but its the truth.
*Let's leave it for future generations, hey? - Sorry, but there isn't much of a gap left to take these steps. 50 years from now, and you have to add on a century for development, and we are up sh*t creek by the time we get to a point where we can advantageously take advantage of any R&D. It's pretty much now or never, with maybe a twenty year window at best. Why wait til then?
It all comes down to these few points.
*Whether you like it or not, in 2 centuries tops, this Earth is gonna be screwed. No metals, no fuels, massive environmental damage. Basically uninhabitable.
*This CANNOT be changed. Humans need resources like metals and fuels. How did you get the computer you are viewing this on, or the electricity to run it, or the petrol for your cars? Are you going to set an example, and be the first person to give these things up for the good of the planet? Didn't think so, which means by default you encourage the mining and exploitation of natural resources, which means by default you encourage the destruction of the biodiversity of the planet. And you are saying we shouldn't do whatever is needed to find alternatives?
*Alternative options for spending the money are indeed valid. However, listed areas such as Education and Health care are, by and large, the province of State Governments, who need to learn to be responsible for their own sectors. In addition simply throwing money at a problem whose root is bad management will onyl delay a solution and entrench the system even deeper into its misery, amking it hard to fix in the long run. How many people here think ill of the Carr Governments plan to increase pokie taxes, and in turn kill off NRL Clubs? I hope none, because the money is to be spent on public sector areas such as Hospitals and Education. I expect to see none of your faces at the protests when Parramatta dies. i actually expect you allt o applaud the sacrifice of the Eels made by the Carr Government, because after all Hospitals and Education are far more important than football, aren't they?
*This is a way of spending money that will have positive benefits for the long term survival of the huiman race. Do you only care about your own immediate family? What about the families theyhave, and the ones they have, and so on. Don't forget that in 200 years people will still carry on your name, and some of those will look back upon their family trees and find you. Don't you want to leave something for them? Something for those who are still yours, but whom you will never actually meet? I think that is a great thing to do.
*Let's look seriously at the most likely Government alternative for spending budget surpluses......tax cuts. Sounds good, until it turns out that the tax cut comes in at a WHOPPING $4 a week. WOWSERS! Talk about life changing. That's sure gonna help out your family there, isn't it? Are you all seriously saying that you would prefer a $4 a week tax cut over an investment that would lay a platform for the survival of humanity beyond the next century or so? Mates, if that isnt the epitomy of selfish, then I don't know what is. On top of this, the budget's $7billion-odd surplus doesnt need to all go on this, even $1billion (less than half of the cash surplus) would make a MASSIVE difference, and would be the differencebetween a $4/week tax cut and a $3.25/week tax cut. Or no tax cut and still having $6billion to throw away by handing it over to mismanaged State Government public sectors, as suggested here.
And basically it all comes down to THIS:
Like it or lump it, think it ridiculous or inovative, this is GOING TO HAPPEN. You can cry about it all you want, but it won't stop it from becoming a reality. Accept it or become a blind fool. And when it happens, you will either be on the boat or not. Simple as that. No one is going to delay the boat to wait for you, and no one is going to come back for you and give you a share. Why should they, when after investing hundreds of billions of dollars you told them to piss off and laughed at them? You think economic disparity is high now, wait until a handful of nations have control of an almost unlimited supply of resources. What do you think will happen then? It doesn't take an idiot to figure that out. You're either in or out, and if you voluntarily stay out, you are dooming your country to either slavery or extinction.
Whether you believe it or not, the world changed on january 14th, 2004. If Congress approves the funding, then the deck of cards has been reshuffled and the world is playing under new rules. Whether you like it or not. The question is, will you make the investment for your country's (and your descendants') futures, or would you prefer a $4 a week tax cut?
) in that those left behind will fester and die on earth
:roll:
