If the Western Force get cut

[taipan]

They grew their pie by expansion and having a ninth game to sell with a national capital city foot print. All of the Things you mentioned are important but how do any of them grow the pie?

Geez.Of course they(AFL) grew their pie, and the expense pie has/will also grow accordingly.Nothing stands still.But their income jumped dramatically (via Rupert's gift deal,they had a decent amount in the bank(which the NRL has had to dip into)taking it out of the future fund.They had been getting far better Tv deals than the NRL over the last 2 decades.
The trouble is the expansion teams in the non AFL states ,has done little for the Nth TV ratings after all the marketing and promo monies spent.They also lost money last year.They don't have rep teams to fiance or assist.

I'm fully aware and support the NRL having a national imprint, but I'm fully aware the grassroots has been shafted for too many years.That must be addressed pronto with large sums.

The simple way to do things ,(if it were that simple) is to grow income on a greater basis than expenses,alternatively cut expenses dramatically.Like the simple household budget formula.Simples.


You see one of the problems rugby league has ,has been sponsorship from some of the big end of town like the Banks,Major Airlines etc.I remember the code had the Commonwealth Bank schoolboys cup many years ago.Some of the players put on a brawl for the ages, and the CBA withdrew their support.

Every time we get clowns carrying on like loons,on and off the field, marketing people within some organisations say" don't want to be associated with that."
Greenberg has mentioned the fact ,Meninga is conscious of the Kangaroos having a respected name.
This is potential income lost.

 

[Perth Red]

Tell me, recent claim that the ninth afl game is worth $57million, do you think true or false?

Do you think a ninth nrl game would have paid for itself with some left over? If not why not? (In the new deal each of the current games are worth around $47.5mill a season)

Funding grass roots does not grow the pie, paying touch footy to include their figures doesn't grow the pie, developing women's league does not grow the pie. The only thing that will grow the pie is either the current 16 clubs becoming massively more popular or the introduction of a ninth game to sell in two lucrative markets.

 

[taipan]

Tell me, recent claim that the ninth afl game is worth $57million, do you think true or false?

Do you think a ninth nrl game would have paid for itself with some left over? If not why not? (In the new deal each of the current games are worth around $47.5mill a season)

Funding grass roots does not grow the pie, paying touch footy to include their figures doesn't grow the pie, developing women's league does not grow the pie. The only thing that will grow the pie is either the current 16 clubs becoming massively more popular or the introduction of a ninth game to sell in two lucrative markets.

I have stated whatever the extra game brings in to the AFL,it will be offset by the added expenses such as grants and start up monies and continuous additional funding.The AFL lost money last year.They also had a large amount of money in their kitty.Generally when you have a lot of extra loot on hand you can throw it around, with say expansion.
They have cut promotions monies to the Swans by 30%.
Well Gyngell was all enthusiastic about a 2nd Brisbane side being worth extra game $20m pa ,then changed his view.
On that view alone an extra game would not bring in an extra $47.5m or $50m pa.


You are joking ,if your grassroots tackle football is not growing ,how the hell can you support extra teams with players rather than plonks.Why the hell do the AFL put millions into grassroots?
The start at the top, doesn't work.The SAuper Blooper 18s are proof of the matter.

The current 16 NRL teams are not going to be massively more popular if a couple are relocated ,wither.
The current 16 teams will be massively more popular with better facilities,better scheduling, better ticketing and better grassroots support.
The extra AFL teams have given that code more TV viewing in the South,but have failed to do so in the Northern States.Their crowds have also remained fairly static in the North,in some cases worse.

The extra 2 NRL teams will I agree give the code a national profile down the line.
I repeat one more monotonous time,I am for expansion, provided beforehand appropriate funding is designated to players, grassroots,admin and DOs and player assistance,female rl.
If the code has money to splash out after that ,whether it be by expansion,bigger sponsorships,bigger TV deals ,digital monies by all means do it.
Suggesting an extra Tv slot is worth an extra $47-50m now is pure guesswork, just by basing what current 8 games is worth.

 

[Perth Red]

I never said it was, an afl CEO,was claiming that was the value of the extra game in their code. Given expansion is likely to cost around $25-30million if done right the question would be more is a ninth nrl game worth $30million plus? If you dont think so then you are admitting nrl games are not nearly as valuable as afl games, which would be a strange position to take for an nrl fan, especially considering nrl games are more popular on tv.

Spending money on grassroots and touch isnt growing the financial pie. Of course it is necessary, although again most grass roots afl is not paid for by the afl, it is paid for by state leagues in their heartlands with independent funding.

 

[taipan]

I never said it was, an afl CEO,was claiming that was the value of the extra game in their code. Given expansion is likely to cost around $25-30million if done right the question would be more is a ninth nrl game worth $30million plus? If you dont think so then you are admitting nrl games are not nearly as valuable as afl games, which would be a strange position to take for an nrl fan, especially considering nrl games are more popular on tv.

Spending money on grassroots and touch isnt growing the financial pie. Of course it is necessary, although again most grass roots afl is not paid for by the afl, it is paid for by state leagues in their heartlands with independent funding.

Then don't bring up a figure by a unknown AFL CEO,who not part of the TV negotiating team.Hardly reliable.
And he was talking about his code.Sheesh.
The TV monies now are based on the various codes' current club makeup.That does not automatically mean if you add X teams, the same monies will be available as that of the current 9 teams.

Again the FTA stations ATM are feeling the pinch.Ch10 is expecting to report a loss, due to the tight and static ad market.Ch7 and 9 are feeling the same problems.If they are not in the market for additional teams ,that reduces market stress for Pay Tv.The FTA mob gave soccer the flick recently.Not interested.
You carry on as though these TV stations are wallowing in cash.

Now we get the Govt looking at removing gambling ads during games.That will further hit the stations' bottom lines.You need to get out into the real world.

Expansion would involve 2 clubs IMO,not just your beloved mob, thus I believe your $25-30m figure is well under,shoudl it happen.

I tell you what I do think, you love hypotheticals and until such time as the real NRL figures end up,your p*ssing in the wind.

Spending money on grassroots is vital;,the fumblers(your boot licking mob) believe so.
If you spend too much money on expansion and neglect grassroots,you won't have a firm base for players and fans.And by grassroots that include WA,which you fap on about.

Most grassroots is not paid by the AFL,based on?Where do the state leagues in fumble land get their money? Codes get grants from Govt for grassroots.Who plays for development officers? The fumblers have a battalion of the gimps.

Do I have to repeat myself,we haven't solved the salary cap amount yet, we haven't sold two NRL owned teams.

 

[Perth Red]

He isn't unknown
“The simple headline on the investment is the AFL has already got the investment back by creating the ninth game.
“That extra game is worth $57 million. If you split it equally with us and the Gold Coast we are already washing our face.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/c450f059c9436a8343b81636d0273c52

State leagues in afl heartlands are funded in variety of ways. WAAFL are funded primarily by holding the two afl club license and charging dockers and eagles a slice of their profit, registrations and income from Subiaco oval which they manage.

How much should we spend on grassroots? Serious question. All of these areas are bottomless pits so what would you consider reasonable expenditure? In last 5 years funding to grass roots has gone from $35mill to $59.5million. A pretty significant increase wouldn't you agree? So how much more do you think they need?

I notice you avoided answering what you thought a ninth game would be worth.

Re gambling ads, I seem to recollect the exact same arguments when they put forward a ban on smoking advertising. Guess what, the world didn't fall in.

 

[taipan]

He isn't unknown
“The simple headline on the investment is the AFL has already got the investment back by creating the ninth game.
“That extra game is worth $57 million. If you split it equally with us and the Gold Coast we are already washing our face.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/c450f059c9436a8343b81636d0273c52

State leagues in afl heartlands are funded in variety of ways. WAAFL are funded primarily by holding the two afl club license and charging dockers and eagles a slice of their profit, registrations and income from Subiaco oval which they manage.

How much should we spend on grassroots? Serious question. All of these areas are bottomless pits so what would you consider reasonable expenditure? In last 5 years funding to grass roots has gone from $35mill to $59.5million. A pretty significant increase wouldn't you agree? So how much more do you think they need?

I notice you avoided answering what you thought a ninth game would be worth.

Re gambling ads, I seem to recollect the exact same arguments when they put forward a ban on smoking advertising. Guess what, the world didn't fall in.

He is for me an unknown, in a code I could not give a rats about.And what they got bears no relation to what we may get for an additional 2 teams.In current financial conditions that could get worse.

Now" the State leagues in AFL are funded in variety of ways", not what you stated initially .You are kidding if you believe no monies for grassroots is not forthcoming from the AFL H/O.
The NRL funds a fair swag of the NSWRL and QRL.

We should be spending a hell of a lot more than we are now on grassroots, that's all I know and just about anyone else with an interest in the code.Of course we could spend less and bring in Perf and B2 immediately.
I avoided the question because it ATM is a hypothetical BS question, for the many reasons I have stated.

Well melad I suggest you check the press in the last couple of days.Because prior(re Gambling ads being out) it was all it might happen, now it's getting to the it will happen .That gimp from Adselaide Ncik Zylophone(whatever) is pushing like crazy and ScoMo is all for it(the Treasurer).
If it goes through the commission the NRL currently gets from Sportsbet $60m over 5 years ,will be drastically cut.

 

[Perth Red]

RugbyWA statement saying they have a right to play until 2020 and have no intention of presenting a business case lol


Recent media reports have suggested that the Road Safety Western Force’s continued participation in the Super Rugby competition hinges on the outcome of a further meeting between the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) Board and the RugbyWA Board.

RugbyWA’s position is clear. Under current arrangements the Road Safety Western Force is entitled to participate in the Super Rugby competition until 30 December 2020.

There is no basis on which the ARU can purport to remove the Western Force from the Super Rugby competition. The ARU must work to ensure that the Western Force remains based in Perth for many seasons to come.

Put simply, RugbyWA is not required to ‘state a business (or any) case’ for the Western Force to remain in the Super Rugby competition.

https://www.westernforce.com.au/article/road-safety-western-force-update

 

[Perth Red]

He is for me an unknown, in a code I could not give a rats about.And what they got bears no relation to what we may get for an additional 2 teams.In current financial conditions that could get worse.

Now" the State leagues in AFL are funded in variety of ways", not what you stated initially .You are kidding if you believe no monies for grassroots is not forthcoming from the AFL H/O.
The NRL funds a fair swag of the NSWRL and QRL.

We should be spending a hell of a lot more than we are now on grassroots, that's all I know and just about anyone else with an interest in the code.Of course we could spend less and bring in Perf and B2 immediately.
I avoided the question because it ATM is a hypothetical BS question, for the many reasons I have stated.

Well melad I suggest you check the press in the last couple of days.Because prior(re Gambling ads being out) it was all it might happen, now it's getting to the it will happen .That gimp from Adselaide Ncik Zylophone(whatever) is pushing like crazy and ScoMo is all for it(the Treasurer).
If it goes through the commission the NRL currently gets from Sportsbet $60m over 5 years ,will be drastically cut.

You clearly have no faith in the value of our product, you weren't involved in the tv negotiations were you?

Exact same was said when they cut tobacco advertising. They are only talking about banning advertising of betting during games, it will have minimal effect on nrl betting deal as that isnt linked to advertising during the game. Not sure how lottoland will go during manly games lol

How much more? You've seen the figures and the massive increase in last 5 years, most of it going to nsw and qland, how much more?
You remind me of those people who always complain when money is spent on museums or stadiums who say " it should be spent on hospitals". Maybe grassroots problems are broader than just money spent? If we upped the funding as much in five years and your saying it still needs "a hell of a lot more" maybe the probables run deeper than $'s?

 

[Diesel]

Rugby WA v ARU

It'll be great

 

[taipan]

You clearly have no faith in the value of our product, you weren't involved in the tv negotiations were you?

Exact same was said when they cut tobacco advertising. They are only talking about banning advertising of betting during games, it will have minimal effect on nrl betting deal as that isnt linked to advertising during the game. Not sure how lottoland will go during manly games lol

How much more? You've seen the figures and the massive increase in last 5 years, most of it going to nsw and qland, how much more?
You remind me of those people who always complain when money is spent on museums or stadiums who say " it should be spent on hospitals". Maybe grassroots problems are broader than just money spent? If we upped the funding as much in five years and your saying it still needs "a hell of a lot more" maybe the probables run deeper than $'s?

OH FFS.Arguing with you is like arguing with a meerkat.I live in the real world, you live in a everything will be right on the night bubble.You give true meaning to the title whingeing Pom.You carry7 on as though you attended the Tv negotiations.
I thought drones were used in places like Syria,iraq etc, but we have a live one here.

If the money is available and all the other matters attended to ,by all means expand the game, go to Margaret River so I can surf with the Great whites.
Read yesterday's Australian re gambling ads on FTA stations.You may learn something.Then again that;s wishful thinking.

 

[DlEHARD]

Force are getting quite the stay of execution. But seems like they will be executed.

 

[Perth Red]

OH FFS.Arguing with you is like arguing with a meerkat.I live in the real world, you live in a everything will be right on the night bubble.You give true meaning to the title whingeing Pom.You carry7 on as though you attended the Tv negotiations.
I thought drones were used in places like Syria,iraq etc, but we have a live one here.

If the money is available and all the other matters attended to ,by all means expand the game, go to Margaret River so I can surf with the Great whites.
Read yesterday's Australian re gambling ads on FTA stations.You may learn something.Then again that;s wishful thinking.

Sigh, shame people can't actually debate things on here.

Like I have asked you numerous times, how much is enough? They are bottomless pits, you can put $75mill or $750million into grass roots and still find justification for spending more.

 

[taipan]

I just did debate with you, but after bashing my head against brick wall, tried the brutal approach.

And I've responded numerous times, grassroots needs funding to cover insurance, refs,Dos,goal posts,sheds travel costs, subsidies for kids.IOW how long is a piece of string.
You don't know how much is needed for grassroots, so don't bellyache to me.

What a puerile response ,you and I know grassroots is well underfunded ATM,you keep bitching about it. We know areas where funding is needed.I'm not going to jump on my camel, and ride around regionals,interstate and outback, to do a flipping assessment.
We know judging by people in the grassroots environment, they are losing out to the cashed up AFL.
Perhaps you could ask your mates at fumble central what they spend currently.
$750m LOL you are prone to exaggerate.

You didn't respond to the almost strong chance of cuts in gambling commission for the NRL,which also would have an impact.No code wants to drop income, when costs are rising.Drop in income apparently no concern to you.

It's obvious you want Perth and stuff the grassroots, cause that's the message coming through with your posts.

 

[Perth Red]

I don't disagree more grassroots funding will lead to better outcomes, like spending more on hospitals will lead to better outcomes, but reality is there is no end point. We have increased grass roots funding significantly in last 5 years (and not just grass roots but spending in every part of the game). Next year we will have roughly $90mill a year more revenue than this year, and the nrl still doesn't feel it can afford expansion. So again, how much is enough? Reality is if you don't see it is a strategic priority no amount of revenue increase will ever be enough. And that's before we even get to how much extra a ninth game is worth and what the real cost of expansion would be.

We can, and probably will, be having this exact same conversation in another 5 years if nrl doesn't make expansion a priority, and tbh I doubt it will. RL has a very long history of insular thinking and has hardly set the world on fire in terms of growing the sport. We seemed to have some leadership in the late 80's early 90's in this country when the people in charge realised there was too many teams in Sydney and was imperative the game became more national. Sadly news ltd put paid to all that. Maybe in another few decades we might end up with some similiar leaders.

The small nrl clubs have a vested interest in no expansion. After all if you're a Cronulla or Penrith do you really want another Melbourne or Brisbane to compete with? Little fish in little ponds springs to mind.

You offer a circular argument re afl, on the one hand you say they can afford both major grassroots funding and to fund expansion because they have bigger revenue, but accept that their bigger revenue is in large part due to their expansion!

 

[taipan]

I offer no more than what I know, and what is realistic at this point of time.Nothing more.

When I get further facts re monies available ,my views will change either on a positive basis our negative one.
You're quite happy to praise AFL,so I accordingly noted they spend a hell of a lot on grassroots.

In 5 or 10 years time if we haven't expanded,I can only put it down to another GFC,a huge drop in TV monies or David Gallop being reappointed as head of the NRL.

 

[grouch]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...rn-if-western-force-fold-20170429-gvvclm.html

I think we should welcome Curtis Rona back into the NRL with open arms, after this comment:

The Perth Reds folded decades ago and Rona said it would be sad for the people of Perth to lose their rugby team as well.

"It will be dominated by AFL, which is my least favourite sport," he said.

 

[jim_57]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...rn-if-western-force-fold-20170429-gvvclm.html

I think we should welcome Curtis Rona back into the NRL with open arms, after this comment:

Make him CEO.

 

[aarondoyle]

http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/story/_/id/19289986/wa-government-slams-aru-praising-nrl

NRL doing its best for the West, while the ARU disappointis
Western Force GREG WOOD/AFP/Getty Images

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10:23 AM AEST
The WA Government has praised the NRL while taking a swipe at the ARU, questioning the union body's decision to shrink the game in Australian at a time when other codes are looking to build.

Either the Perth-based Western Force or the Melbourne Rebels will be axed ahead of the 2018 Super Rugby competition.

The WA Government are angry at the prospect the Force could be cut, especially after the previous leadership invested in a redevelopment of nib Stadium several years ago.

If the Force are cut, Perth Glory will be the only major sporting tenants of the stadium.

Rugby league, meanwhile, is doing its best to maintain a strong presence in Perth.

Two NRL games will be played at nib Stadium this year, as well as two Rugby League World Cup fixtures, and the new 60,000-seat Perth Stadium will host a State of Origin game in 2019.

WA Minister for Sport and Recreation Mick Murray praised the NRL for continuing to promote rugby league in Western Australia.

"You're showing the lead by trying to expand your sport, whereas the other one is shrinking their sport," Mr Murray said in a thinly-veiled swipe at the ARU.

"I think it's a major feather in the cap of rugby league by being out there promoting their own game and trying to expand it.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/story/_/id/19289986/wa-government-slams-aru-praising-nrl

Don't tell Perth Red.