Is Australia's dominance officially over?

[titoelcolombiano]

I don’t think we can call it a transition. Players like Thurston, smith, slater, Inglis all are future immortals - you can’t replace them readily. Tedesco is not Slater or Inglis

So were players like Lewis, Meninga, Langer, Stuart then Lockyer the production line of all time greats stretches back to the 80's and probably further. There is a distinctly different look about the current Kangaroos team as they don't have this calibre of player and it is the first time in decades that has been the case.

 

[The Great Dane]

Who is the nest Thurston though? Thurston was already one of the game's most dominant players when Joey was still around, and before Joey there was Langer, Fittler, Daley, Stuart and Wally retired the year before Joey's debut I think?

The closest is what - Munster, Keary, Cleary? They've all been around for a while now and do any of them remind you of a young Joey or Thurston?

I'd be very surprised if Australia get a dominant half of the likes of Thurston in the next 5 years, this compared to having Cronk, Thurston, Lockyer, Johns, Fittler, Daley, Langer, Wally, Stuart, Sterlo and so on all the way back to the 70s.

You're looking back on things with hindsight and forgetting the shuffling, competition for positions, and down periods.

The Kangaroos have had down periods while there's a changing of the guard for every generation of players going back to the very beginning, the last time that they had a serious down period (after Joey left) Australia lost the World cup and weren't as dominant as normal for a few years there after. . .

It's all par for the course, and now that there's opportunity it's only a matter of time before a player comes along and takes Thurston's place as the next great player. Who that player will be is anybodies guess, and if history is anything to go by it probably won't be who we think it will be as well, because if you have a good memory you'll remember that a lot of people thought that Kimmorley was destine to takeover from Joey, and look how that turned out.

 

[Springs09]

You're looking back on things with hindsight and forgetting the shuffling, competition for positions, and down periods.

The Kangaroos have had down periods while there's a changing of the guard for every generation of players going back to the very beginning, the last time that they had a serious down period (after Joey left) Australia lost the World cup and weren't as dominant as normal for a few years there after. . .

It's all par for the course, and now that there's opportunity it's only a matter of time before a player comes along and takes Thurston's place as the next great player. Who that player will be is anybodies guess, and if history is anything to go by it probably won't be who we think it will be as well, because if you have a good memory you'll remember that a lot of people thought that Kimmorley was destine to takeover from Joey, and look how that turned out.

I'm not forgetting anything. There was no serious 'down period' after Joey left, we'd already lost a Tri Nations before Joey retired and Thurston was already the clear No. 1 halfback in the game having won 2 Dally Ms. The competition for positions was a good thing, since we usually had 4 or 5 champion halves, not just 1, unlike now where we have zero. And when exactly were the other 'down periods'? Because we dominated everything from the late 70s until 2005, even when we had only half our players available. For example after Wally and Sterlo there were Stuart and Langer who were already established stars and behind them were Fittler, Daley, Alexander, Hasler etc. Before any of them retired Joey came along and was better than them all.

Kimmorley was already over 30 before Joey retired, he was always Joey's back-up/teammate.

Australia has not had clear dominant halves for a very long time. Before we could have six injured halves and still have a dominant player who looked like he belonged on the international stage. If we had some injuries who would we have? Moses or Cleary? Pearce? The back-up half in the Aussie squad last year was f**king Ben Hunt. Maybe Kyle Flanagan or one of the young Broncos halves might be a world-beater but if so it will take several years, which is the largest gap without a dominant half since at least the 70s.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

That era of dominance you mentioned, you could have a 2nd or 3rd Australian team and would still probably beat a top test team. Other teams didn't realise how good our depth was. On the odd occasion the Kiwis would beat us, the Poms would beat us in 1 or no tests during a series but always used to so confident of beating us when the team was either depleted or in experienced. Some examples would the 82 Kangaroo tour, 95 World Cup and 2003 Ashes series.

And for a while when we played in these tournaments without these key players and behind on the scoreboard, we always found a way to win.

2005 is probably one the big turning points at International level when we lost the Tri Nations in England We were not only beaten by the Kiwis, we were hammered. We didn't have Lockyer and Johns but many expected us to win because of the Kangaroos mentality.

We're still pretty strong. I don't know if the current crop of Kangaroos players will be anywhere near as good as the era of 79-2005 but there's still a number of good players that will help the Aussies win a World Cup

We're just have to realise the other nations are getting stronger, particular the Pacific Nations, and they'll be more competition at International level

 

[Perth Tiger]

I'm not forgetting anything. There was no serious 'down period' after Joey left, we'd already lost a Tri Nations before Joey retired and Thurston was already the clear No. 1 halfback in the game having won 2 Dally Ms.

Didn't Ben Hornby get selected ahead of Thurston as the Australian halfback at one stage by Stuart?

While I agree with your point that there isn't any all time greats on the horizon in the near future in the halves, I think you are also underestimating the transition period that was experienced between the greats as well.

 

[Springs09]

Didn't Ben Hornby get selected ahead of Thurston as the Australian halfback at one stage by Stuart?

While I agree with your point that there isn't any all time greats on the horizon in the near future in the halves, I think you are also underestimating the transition period that was experienced between the greats as well.

Hornby was selected for a game in the Tri Nations against GB in 2006, a game when other players were also rested as we were pretty much already in the final. We lost and Thurston came back in and never left.

If I'm underestimating - when were all these down periods with nobodies in the halves? As soon as Sterlo and Wally retired there was Stuart and Langer there to take their place with Fittler and Daley only a few years off, meanwhile Immortal Mal Meninga was there the whole time. And the back-ups for the halves were still better than anything we have now. And through all the 'down periods' we never lost a single series or tournament. Back then all time great halves like Fittler and Daley and Kenny often couldn't play in the halves because there were better halves in front of them. Could you imagine that now? Our first choice halves are barely good enough for Australia.

The only thing that corresponds to a poor transition period would be the 2005-2008 period, but Joey was still around (but injured) for the 2005 loss and 2008 isn't an anomaly as we have regularly lost tournaments since then, corresponding with both the Australian team becoming less dominant and international footy being taken more seriously with the growth and strengthening of other nations as a result.

 

[Perth Red]

Hornby was selected for a game in the Tri Nations against GB in 2006, a game when other players were also rested as we were pretty much already in the final. We lost and Thurston came back in and never left.

If I'm underestimating - when were all these down periods with nobodies in the halves? As soon as Sterlo and Wally retired there was Stuart and Langer there to take their place with Fittler and Daley only a few years off, meanwhile Immortal Mal Meninga was there the whole time. And the back-ups for the halves were still better than anything we have now. And through all the 'down periods' we never lost a single series or tournament. Back then all time great halves like Fittler and Daley and Kenny often couldn't play in the halves because there were better halves in front of them. Could you imagine that now? Our first choice halves are barely good enough for Australia.

The only thing that corresponds to a poor transition period would be the 2005-2008 period, but Joey was still around (but injured) for the 2005 loss and 2008 isn't an anomaly as we have regularly lost tournaments since then, corresponding with both the Australian team becoming less dominant and international footy being taken more seriously with the growth and strengthening of other nations as a result.

I wonder if the increasing dominance of Kiwi and PI (and to lessor and more recent degree english) eligible players in the NRL has also played a part? It weakens Australian and strengthens opposition at same time, a double whammy.

 

[kris rebane]

Australia will have to rely on Origin to be able to convince forwards to play for Australia.

That is where Australia is really going to struggle in 10 years time. Most of the dominant forwards in the game aren't Caucasian anymore.

The days of Webcke, Lazarus, Clyde, Harragon, Scott, Tallis, Kennedy etc appear to be over.

Even in the current Australian side, McLean (Maori), RCG (Fiji), Frizzell (Tonga), Kaufusi (Tonga) and McGuire (Samoa) aren't pure Caucasians.

The likes of Taumalolo, Fifita, Taupau, Kikau, Pangai Junior etc are the dominant forwards. There are some exceptions such as Klemmer who had a very good season.

Australia will always have a superior spine however.

Can I just say from outside perspective.

you guys have all wrong. Nz too.
I feeling you countries have BBC fetish. Obsession with grow fans in black communities only.
What is population of Tonga and Samoa?
And also aboriginal eastern Australia?

But I see no progress or idea to grow game with white?

min my opinion you have market saturation with the BBC. Some PNG growth still. But that’s all.

where is growth in Nz white? I do not know any nz white from Nz. I see Foran then learn he is actually Aussie. And some other player same.

and I see almost no love in Australia for white.
What’s this game? Nz and Australian native?

I want to see European. I am European.
I get no help with local Estonia league and all I see is love directed at Tonga 100k population that also loves Union.

say I’m wrong I don’t care this is how I see. I think I am right

 

[franklin2323]

Didn't Ben Hornby get selected ahead of Thurston as the Australian halfback at one stage by Stuart?

While I agree with your point that there isn't any all time greats on the horizon in the near future in the halves, I think you are also underestimating the transition period that was experienced between the greats as well.

The NRL comp as a whole is in this stage stacked full of young guys within 12-18 months it will be back to normal

 

[Springs09]

I wonder if the increasing dominance of Kiwi and PI (and to lessor and more recent degree english) eligible players in the NRL has also played a part? It weakens Australian and strengthens opposition at same time, a double whammy.

Kind of but also not really. The main weakening is the lack of quality halves which have been declining game-wide for some time, this is mostly because of poor junior rep coaches who coach young halves far too structurally instead of teaching them to play what they see.
When it comes to forwards and outside backs we still have plenty.