Is it the coach or the players?

[Tigerm]

Another failed season, WTF is happening.

It just seems to be same every f**king year, new coaches and players don’t seem to change anything. I know some will say it’s the culture, but the the club has had a stable management for a while now and the rotation of coaches and players don’t seem to make any difference.

I think it is probably a bit of both, players (not good enough) means poor recruitment, and the coach not playing to his players strengths. How long did it take to get AD kicking goals and realise he is not a fullback.

Injuries play there part, but every team has injuries.

Our penalties and 6 again errors just seem to go unchecked?

Will our defence coach be replaced? Do we have a halves coach? Do we have a sprint coach?

You look at the better teams, the players just know there roles and don’t seem to move from that, they are so well drilled. Generally having good captains seems to help?

Some of the players are too young? Penrith have a young side.

Just can’t see much changing anytime soon. Certainly Tamou and hopefully JAC (He may decline us after last night) will make a difference, but our poor defensive reads will continue to give us problems. It’s poor when the bloke who is leaving is the best defender on the right side.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Did you really expect this team to be going better than 10th at the start of the season?

And next year will be another failure with the same dead wood.

Can you really blame the players though or the bloke that signed them - Ivan..

Everyone said at the time that Reynolds, Packer, Mbye were all signed for too long..2020 and 2021 is where this really hurts having to continue to pay these guys big money..

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Did you really expect this team to be going better than 10th at the start of the season?

And next year will be another failure with the same dead wood.

Can you really blame the players though or the bloke that signed them - Ivan..

Everyone said at the time that Reynolds, Packer, Mbye were all signed for too long..2020 and 2021 is where this really hurts having to continue to pay these guys big money..

I thought we could push into the 8, there were some early and intermittent signs of good changes.

A couple of notable exceptions, but otherwise this playing group needs to be dispersed ASAP.

Our halves remain a key issue. It’s been changing the deck chairs on the titanic for a few years now.

The club officials need to be looked at carefully.

We probably need to hire Shane Richardson or someone of his ilk as a consultant to clean up the front office.

I’ve said it many times, we need to procure the best and smartest officials and everything will follow from there.

If that means chucking in an extra 50k or so in to employ the Melbourne or Roosters officials etc so be it.

As for the next coach, there’s a bit to like about Brad Arthur for mine. I just like the way he squeezes the juice from his less gifted players.

 

[Front-Rower]

The club needs to start making sure the team perform as a team and not as a platform for individuals. Madge made that very clear earlier in the year. Then a ‘senior player’ spat the dummy because it was all too hard and the wheels came flying off.

I was watching a documentary on fox cricket about the Australian test cricket team and their road out of the Smith, Warner and Bancroft controversy the other night. Justin Langer made it very, very clear that the best teams believe in the we. The only time I should be considered is when you think about how I can help the team to improve and win.

For far too long our club has been about the individual.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

The club needs to start making sure the team perform as a team and not as a platform for individuals. Madge made that very clear earlier in the year. Then a ‘senior player’ spat the dummy because it was all too hard and the wheels came flying off.

I was watching a documentary on fox cricket about the Australian test cricket team and their road out of the Smith, Warner and Bancroft controversy the other night. Justin Langer made it very, very clear that the best teams believe in the we. The only time I should be considered is when you think about how I can help the team to improve and win.

For far too long our club has been about the individual.

I’m almost at the point where I would simply stand down players. Pay them to stay away.

If last night is the price you pay to have loafers loitering around the club pretending to be nrl players, they’d need not show up.

I hope all the unbelievers saw what the absence of a Brooks did to us last night. At least he has a go.

I’m willing to offer healthy match payments to the second or third string rooster halves at the moment.

You can’t blame Harry for wanting out now, but I think he’ll come back.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

The club needs to start making sure the team perform as a team and not as a platform for individuals. Madge made that very clear earlier in the year. Then a ‘senior player’ spat the dummy because it was all too hard and the wheels came flying off.

I was watching a documentary on fox cricket about the Australian test cricket team and their road out of the Smith, Warner and Bancroft controversy the other night. Justin Langer made it very, very clear that the best teams believe in the we. The only time I should be considered is when you think about how I can help the team to improve and win.

For far too long our club has been about the individual.

Like when we wanted to mortgage the leagues club to sign Latrell.

That was our chairman too

 

[Tigerm]

The club needs to start making sure the team perform as a team and not as a platform for individuals. Madge made that very clear earlier in the year. Then a ‘senior player’ spat the dummy because it was all too hard and the wheels came flying off.

I was watching a documentary on fox cricket about the Australian test cricket team and their road out of the Smith, Warner and Bancroft controversy the other night. Justin Langer made it very, very clear that the best teams believe in the we. The only time I should be considered is when you think about how I can help the team to improve and win.

For far too long our club has been about the individual.

Yes, I agree a lot of the players do not appear to buying into the team purpose.

They appear to be just happy to be in first grade and nothing more.

The clean out has begun, let’s hope the right people are going and (unfortunately) we start again.

 

[Tiger05]

I thought we could make the 8 at the start of the year but our flaws were exposed again. We just don't have the cattle to succeed over the course of a tough season.

The coach is another issue. Our defense is terrible. Out attack has been all over the place and players that are being paid good contracts aren't performing. I think some of that poor performance is due to dud signings prior to Madge getting here but Madge has made a couple of signings.

The thing I like about Madge is though I think he is a better recruiter than Cleary although it'd be hard to be worse than Cleary. I just figure we have to give him more time to develop a good squad and then see if he can get them to perform.

 

[Front-Rower]

Out attack has been all over the place and players that are being paid good contracts aren't performing.

The team doesn’t know what Marshall’s doing in attack. The exception is when he runs straight and engages the line.

Remember we put the cleaners through the cowboys and dogs first time around without Marshall? The Brisbane game was the worst thing that happened to us this year. Yes, we won 48-0 though it was questionable they were even trying. Most of us could have scored the tries we did that night.

It was Manly, it was the final 15 mins but the team looked so much more in control when it was Liddle, Brooks, Grant, Mbye and Douehi taking the reigns. Brooks looked like a different player with the service he received from Liddle.

 

[Vic Mackey]

It’s the culture of the club, it’s going to take another few years to change

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

It’s the culture of the club, it’s going to take another few years to change

I think that’s about right.

The change is only going to come about if we can bring good people to the club.

From top to bottom.

There’s no real reason why we shouldn’t have one of the largest memberships in the game or go deep into finals every single year.

We sent our assistant coach to Penrith yesterday to work with the lying flog. Not sure when he starts.

This is real opportunity for us to get some fresh blood in at such a senior level.

Plenty of ex nrl coaches around to lend a hand. Would be funny to see Seibs turn up.

 

[Fordy20]

It's the administration. Since Sheens got the boot, we have a new coach almost every two years. Now we finally have a premiership winning coach willing to stick around, yet the club won't even extend him beyond the contract lengths of the highly paid, under performing players they signed under the previous coach, the very millstones that prevented us from re-signing a club legend, prevented us from signing other players and prevented us from having a balanced team with depth in key positions.

Until the club demonstrates faith in a coach, the club will continue to be a rabble, because the only people willing to sign will be players looking to use us a stepping stone to playing for more successful club, or players that are looking for a cruisey retirement gig when they are well past it, i.e. the Braith Anasta types.

 

[stryker]

It’s culture.
When you mix a loser club with an even bigger loser club, you end up with a super duper loser club.
Only way out is to relocate, rebrand and start over. Leave Balmain and Wests to wallow in reggies where they belong.

 

[benched tiger]

The Storm coach virtually loses his sh#t every game,their players actually expect him to lose it and they seem to be doing alright, our coach has a crack at his team and some of them sulk and bitch that it’s all too hard, ffs what do they want to do keep doing the easy option and again fail to make the semifinals.

 

[gordsy]

One knock I will say about Madge is he seems to expect every player to bend to his way of thinking.
In theory that;s great , in reality it pisses off a lot of players I heard Gould talking about this before and he said sometimes you have to love the ones you've got. He's right, we all know where we want to be but some of the blokes in our team are not great and yes attitude changes and fitness will help, but screaming at blokes at half time and flogging them at training endlessly isn't clever either. You have to be some what flexible

 

[Marshall_magic]

It’s the club culture. It’s a losing mentality. The club is happy to be the little engine that could, rather than push on to anything.

2005 has been a get out of jail free card to the flub for 15 years, and when Benji retires they’ll actually have to do something beyond that to keep the fans satisfied.
- poor season? Oh let’s just bring back one of the 2005 players
- why aren’t we playing finals? Don’t worry, 2 of our 2005 players will appear at our luncheon

outside of the 2005 squad we haven’t signed a top marquee player really since Adam Blair, it’s always just past their beat players who want one last pay cheque. We let any player go who wants to go, because they know they aren’t winning a thing here. The fact we brought Benji and Robbie through our juniors at the same time and only made 3 finals series with them shows how clueless the club is.

 

[Front-Rower]

The fact we brought Benji and Robbie through our juniors at the same time and only made 3 finals series with them shows how clueless the club is.

I think between 2006-2012 you had to give those two guys a chance. Farah and Marshall were very good players during those years and there were quite a few head scratching decisions made by Sheens.

For example, buying John Morris then trying to turn Marshall in to a halfback destroyed his biggest asset, running the ball.

After 2012 should have been the start of the rebuild. We were raging premiership favourites that year and failed to make the 8. Sheens getting axed was the right call IMO but it should have went further.

Some strange stuff started happening in 2013. Potter tried to put some accountability on the stars which got Marshall offside and he showed up in an Auckland Blues jersey. He warned the club about offering Farah too long a contract and shortly after the story broke about Potter not being able to coach. Of course Potter got the spear and the player got what he wanted.

Taylor, regardless of what you think of him, finished the job, moved Farah on and then got speared himself.

Again, regardless of what you think of him, one of Cleary’s biggest mistakes was allowing Marshall back. It was never going to end with Benji just being a back up. As if the club would allow it! Seriously think of all the $$$ he would attract from the huge “home coming”. Cleary found out pretty quickly who was in charge when Marshall just casually suggested Robbie come home too. Problem being was that he texted him before he asked the question!!

Does anyone not see the pattern here? Seriously we’ve been dictated to for far too long.

 

[Fordy20]

I think between 2006-2012 you had to give those two guys a chance. Farah and Marshall were very good players during those years and there were quite a few head scratching decisions made by Sheens.

I remember lots of those head scratching decisions, particularly his refusal to give those guys a chance by getting them a decent halfback to lead the side around. Prince was sensational, but Benji was injured for much of 2006 and that was the last year we had Prince before he left for the Gold Coast to give them many years of good service. Then we go from State of Origin halfback to John Morris, who's only experience as a halfback was filling in for Andrew Johns in a Semi-Final and standing next to Tim Smith when he piled on 40 try assists in a single season.

Obviously that didn't work well, so we recruited an experienced controlling halfback in Mat Head, but Sheens barely used him and the year after Sheens plays a Junior Kangaroo halfback out of position at fullback for most of the year until the side is running almost dead last. Then after getting the CEO sacked, he realises he needs to get some results on the pitch, so he moves the halfback into the halves and puts an actual fullback at fullback and lo and behold, the boys go on a five match winning streak.

Then when the fullback breaks his leg, he shows he learnt nothing from the experience, breaks up the winning halves combination and pushes the halfback back into the the unfamiliar #1 jersey and we fall out of finals contention. Then instead of building a strong halves combination and looking for a servicable fullback, we waste two years on a wife beater and when that blows up in his face, instead of persisting with a halves combination that worked, Sheens partners Marshall with EIGHT different halves partners.

 

[Front-Rower]

Then after getting the CEO sacked, he realises he needs to get some results on the pitch, so he moves the halfback into the halves and puts an actual fullback at fullback and lo and behold, the boys go on a five match winning streak.

In 2012? I had a look at the results. We won 6 in a row during Origin period. In that time Blake Ayshford, Curtis Sironen, Chris Lawrence and Tom Humble all played in the halves with Marshall.

We also kept both Penrith and Canberra to 0 during that period.

https://afltables.com/rl/teams/wests_tigers/wests_tigers_by.html#2012

 

[super_coach]

Bottom line we have a roster that is not up to the standard required for the way the game is now played. Firstly we lack speed and explosive power right across the paddock. We have to much cap tied up in players over the hill and basically we have to many reserve graders playing first grade.

Under Madge we are a chance of finally turning things around, but it’s going to take time and I expect next year to be a bottom four finish unless we jag another three top 13 players and I doubt that will happen.

Also urgently the 1 6 and 7 need to be sorted for us to have any hope moving forward. I think youth has to be the road to take in 2021 and when we finally say goodbye to Ivan’s duds we might be able to recruit some real quality