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Opinion Is Ricky Stuart the most overrated coach ever?

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
I get what he's trying to say.

We're terrible right now, and it's not his fault - Dave Furner built this squad of plodders.

He went for the quick fix with the chequebook and it failed. We might not like it but the realities are we aren't going to be competitive for a while, and there's not a whole lot he can do about it.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
Gus said similar things when he got to Penrith. The big difference is he could recruit a good coach in Cleary. Ricky being the coach sort of f**ks up the similarity.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,315
:lol: What a myth, he said the same crap at Parra it will take years he said. it took one off season :lol: Then he had the hide to take some of the credit :lol:
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
I get that argument, I really do, but there are other realities to the situation.

Whether we like it or not, Canberra is not a particularly attractive location to blokes in their early 20s with lots of cash to splash. I've never gotten it personally. It's not the most happening place in the universe, but there is a pretty cool bar scene there once you know where to go. Also I've never gotten how Townsville or Auckland could be more attractive destinations for a young bloke. Townsville is a complete shithole, and Auckland is in another country for gods sake. In Canberra you can drive home for the day when you've got it off, or go home easily for the bye weekend. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Also, lets not forget how damn close we were to getting Ennis, Proctor and Tedesco. Mansour may have come if we'd gotten the other three but we'll never know. Despite what is said about Stuart, clearly they were willing to play under him, otherwise Tedesco and Proctor never would have said yes in the first place and Ennis wouldn't have been considering it as seriously as he did.

We can go on about how bad Stuart is but do you think Bellamy or Maguire would be doing much better with our roster? We just have a horrendous roster - full of has been's and never will be's - and Stuart was signed up well and truly after the roster was locked in for this season and very little scope to change it. When given the opportunity this year he actively and aggressively tried to change it, which is something as an organization we have seldom attempted in the past and as mentioned were close to achieving.

I don't think he's supercoach, but I think he's a massive improvement on Furner. I think despite the shit he's gotten about his efforts at Parra, they are doing so well this season in no small part due to his cleanout last year. He's trying to do the same with us, which is why the re-signing of McCrone upset so many Raiders fans, but at the end of the day without replacements coming in he was somewhat hamstrung there.

But he's doing some good things too. He's copping an awful lot of flack for the lack of minutes he's giving to Mitch Cornish and Shannon Boyd, but I think he's doing it beautifully. He said at the beginning of the year he wanted those two to play a full season of NSW Cup so they could get used to being the dominant players in a competition with over-aged blokes. He's had to have them in firsts due to necessity and he's easing them in to not ruin their development. Stuart knows we're no chance this year, and only the most ignorant green-eyed supporter thinks otherwise. By giving these guys limited time you let them adjust to the step up without the pressure that comes with being a starter.

I guess what this long winded post is trying to say is that it's hard to judge him off of six months coaching a roster he had f**k all to do with assembling that everyone knew going in was sub-par. I'm happy to give him at least three years to effect changes, and if there are no signs then, maybe look elsewhere. Because god knows, turning us around is not going to be an overnight fix.
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
I get what he's trying to say.

We're terrible right now, and it's not his fault - Dave Furner built this squad of plodders.

He went for the quick fix with the chequebook and it failed. We might not like it but the realities are we aren't going to be competitive for a while, and there's not a whole lot he can do about it.

He's certainly not the first coach to walk into a club with a poor roster though. When a coach starts fresh at a new club there's a reason it's previous coach is no longer there. You don't usually hear many coaches give such a longer period before they expect the side to be competitive though. Sure a lot of the time you hear coaches be honest and say it's going to get worse before it gets better, but not many give such a long period of bleakness.

It seems like he's setting up an excuse for himself for the side not to have to be successful for a long period of time. Most decent coaches could make a side competitive before 5-10 years.

I don't like laying the boot into Stuart because I feel he cops enough, and I know it's Canberra and they struggle to get good players there as a fast fix (clubs like the Knights have the same problem) but there just seems to be a huge gap between his words and actions at the moment.

He says their junior development and pathways is the most important thing for the clubs future, but then he holds Cornish back to persist with Wighton in the halves who isn't one. That puts Wighton's development back too.

I'm not saying he should have played Cornish big minutes, but even if he just gave him a few in round 1 off the bench he would probably be ready now to play more than 10 minutes or so each game. If he had have done that at least then by now he'd probably have an idea of whether Cornish has what it takes, and if not they could explore other halves options for the future. Seems like he's just trying to put everything off to me instead of being proactive.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,035
If resigning McCrone until 2016 is part of Licky's ten year plan than god help us. My prediction: Lee, Cornish and our other great prospects will be at other clubs in the next 5 years whilst the likes of Tilse and Shillington will be given $800000 a year extensions.

Licky is inept but the blokes running the club who hired him are even worse.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
If resigning McCrone until 2016 is part of Licky's ten year plan than god help us. My prediction: Lee, Cornish and our other great prospects will be at other clubs in the next 5 years whilst the likes of Tilse and Shillington will be given $800000 a year extensions.

Licky is inept but the blokes running the club who hired him are even worse.

Great to see you've returned mate . . . the joint could do with a livening up
 

Wizard Sleeve

Juniors
Messages
1,022
I get that argument, I really do, but there are other realities to the situation.

Whether we like it or not, Canberra is not a particularly attractive location to blokes in their early 20s with lots of cash to splash. I've never gotten it personally. It's not the most happening place in the universe, but there is a pretty cool bar scene there once you know where to go. Also I've never gotten how Townsville or Auckland could be more attractive destinations for a young bloke. Townsville is a complete shithole, and Auckland is in another country for gods sake. In Canberra you can drive home for the day when you've got it off, or go home easily for the bye weekend. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Also, lets not forget how damn close we were to getting Ennis, Proctor and Tedesco. Mansour may have come if we'd gotten the other three but we'll never know. Despite what is said about Stuart, clearly they were willing to play under him, otherwise Tedesco and Proctor never would have said yes in the first place and Ennis wouldn't have been considering it as seriously as he did.

We can go on about how bad Stuart is but do you think Bellamy or Maguire would be doing much better with our roster? We just have a horrendous roster - full of has been's and never will be's - and Stuart was signed up well and truly after the roster was locked in for this season and very little scope to change it. When given the opportunity this year he actively and aggressively tried to change it, which is something as an organization we have seldom attempted in the past and as mentioned were close to achieving.

I don't think he's supercoach, but I think he's a massive improvement on Furner. I think despite the shit he's gotten about his efforts at Parra, they are doing so well this season in no small part due to his cleanout last year. He's trying to do the same with us, which is why the re-signing of McCrone upset so many Raiders fans, but at the end of the day without replacements coming in he was somewhat hamstrung there.

But he's doing some good things too. He's copping an awful lot of flack for the lack of minutes he's giving to Mitch Cornish and Shannon Boyd, but I think he's doing it beautifully. He said at the beginning of the year he wanted those two to play a full season of NSW Cup so they could get used to being the dominant players in a competition with over-aged blokes. He's had to have them in firsts due to necessity and he's easing them in to not ruin their development. Stuart knows we're no chance this year, and only the most ignorant green-eyed supporter thinks otherwise. By giving these guys limited time you let them adjust to the step up without the pressure that comes with being a starter.

I guess what this long winded post is trying to say is that it's hard to judge him off of six months coaching a roster he had f**k all to do with assembling that everyone knew going in was sub-par. I'm happy to give him at least three years to effect changes, and if there are no signs then, maybe look elsewhere. Because god knows, turning us around is not going to be an overnight fix.


That's fine but that roster didn't seem so bad at the start of the year when Ricky said you were a genuine chance at the top 8 , I think it was along the lines of " a real threat " or something like that he was quoted . Understanding a coach isn't going to outright say his teams shite before a ball is kicked but considering you also were a much better team last year I don't think it's to far fetched to believe Ricky didn't think his squad was as bad as you'd like us to believe .
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
Oh come on, that's a very long bow to draw. Find me a single coach in the history of the NRL - or virtually any professional sport - that hasn't talked up his team at the beginning of the year. He's not going to come out and say 'we're not good enough this year' but I'll bet you a million quatloos that he was saying it behind closed doors, otherwise how do you explain the recruitment drive? All the players we chased bar Tedesco (who was a direct swap for Milford) were direct replacements for players still under contract. He knew the squad was garbage, but he can't just come out and say that.
 

Ronnie Dobbs

Coach
Messages
17,481
I get what he's trying to say.

We're terrible right now, and it's not his fault - Dave Furner built this squad of plodders.

He went for the quick fix with the chequebook and it failed. We might not like it but the realities are we aren't going to be competitive for a while, and there's not a whole lot he can do about it.

Yes, there is.

It would include cleaning out players who have known nothing but mediocrity - McCrone, Tilse etc.

Clean it out.

He has no idea what hes doing. He is a dinosaur.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
I think in hindsight Stuart took the wrong option in trying to sign us out of trouble. The raiders have a few external problems with recruiting they can't control but what kind of idiot would sign for the raiders with the current internal issues (that we suck)

Stuart was very optimistic in his targets. Me personally (with hindsight again) would perhaps target fringe first graders or talented juniors who have a long wait ahead of them first. Get the side into a position where they are a fringe top 8 side every year instead of every second year and then go for the big signings.
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,694
Hey Ricky:

Roosters 2012: Shit coach, average squad - 13th
Roosters 2013: New coach, new recruits - Premiers

It can be done in a year but you're the reason it's gonna take a decade cause no one wants to play for you ya f**ken genius.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
In fairness to Stuart (and again I have been pretty critical of late) you cannot compare a glamour club with easy access to TPA based in the most desirable location in Sydney to live with the Raiders. I am not attacking the Roosters for this by the way. They have advantages in signing talent thats life but Stuart needed to realise that perhaps the Raiders especially a Raiders that absolutely suck might need a different approach.

If we were a good side then I have no doubt we probably could have snagged one of the four but no young player wants to go spend years in a side that is wooden spoon bound and no established Sydney based player wants to leave Sydney unless they absolutely have to. What we can offer is opportunity to players who are behind really good players and young people. We cannot offer glory so players like James Tedesco might as well stay at wests.
 

Snappy

Coach
Messages
11,844
Also I've never gotten how Townsville or Auckland could be more attractive destinations for a young bloke. Townsville is a complete shithole, and Auckland is in another country for gods sake.

lol the irony of a Canberra native calling anywhere else a shithole.

Also, lets not forget how damn close we were to getting Ennis, Proctor and Tedesco. Mansour may have come if we'd gotten the other three but we'll never know. Despite what is said about Stuart, clearly they were willing to play under him, otherwise Tedesco and Proctor never would have said yes in the first place and Ennis wouldn't have been considering it as seriously as he did.

It's called a big fat pay cheque. And even then they realised that a big fat pay cheque wasnt enough to deal with that loser.

We can go on about how bad Stuart is but do you think Bellamy or Maguire would be doing much better with our roster? We just have a horrendous roster

The difference is that those coaches would have been able to sign some decent players. Players will take less money to play under a rated coach. Didnt the rabble club sign him for 7 years or something stupid like that. Whilst he is there they will have to pay massive overs for good players, or take in washed up players looking for a retirement cheque.

How must the current players feel when the coach is bagging the roster for their troubles, why would any players want to enter into a club where the coach is always looking for excuses and blaming them for everything.

What a shit rabble of a club with a shit rabble coach. Things arent getting better anytime soon. Now why do you go run off and have another sook.
 

jason taylor

Bench
Messages
3,542
Oh come on, that's a very long bow to draw. Find me a single coach in the history of the NRL - or virtually any professional sport - that hasn't talked up his team at the beginning of the year. He's not going to come out and say 'we're not good enough this year' but I'll bet you a million quatloos that he was saying it behind closed doors, otherwise how do you explain the recruitment drive? All the players we chased bar Tedesco (who was a direct swap for Milford) were direct replacements for players still under contract. He knew the squad was garbage, but he can't just come out and say that.

Ricky came out and said Parramatta was shit last year. Round two after Parramatta lost to the Bulldogs he basically said that it was going to be a long year and there would be plenty of losses like that. He never once talked up the Eel.s
 

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