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Is this Game Anti Souths Sydney Rabbitohs?

Mario

Juniors
Messages
862
Well, I think I have tried to explain our justification for our implementation. It was based on consulting with a number of experts and produces results consistent with the current levels of team and individual performance seen in the NRL. I am totally comfortable with our decisions and the basis on which they were made.

If you cannot handle the fact that Souths are currently a bottom tier team in reality and that this is reflected in the game, and you are not prepared to utilise the customisation tools available to you to modify the situation, then I suggest this game is not for you.

For the record, I only asked one NRL Stats guy who was going to be in the grand final and he was right.
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
TripleM said:
This is so ridiculous.. I think the game would be awful if teams like souths had a 50/50 shot of beating the warriors or panthers everytime they played. I mean, its like saying Japan have the same chance of winning the rugby world cup as the allblacks. You have to have low ranked teams in the game, thats just how it works..

if all team stats were equal the factor wouldn't be 50/50....mainly because of real life player skills and individual player skills. Like I already know I'd kick all your arses with a team of players with grand ma stats :lol:

Lets face it...so much effort has gone into using real stats that nobody will play this game unless fudging the individual player stats or the team stats anyway.... so why bother having real stats in it??? The game would have sold whether it had the NRL logo on it or not.

Who else other than Warrior, penrith and rooster supporters will keep the original team as found in the Box???
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
Mario said:
Well, I think I have tried to explain our justification for our implementation. It was based on consulting with a number of experts and produces results consistent with the current levels of team and individual performance seen in the NRL. I am totally comfortable with our decisions and the basis on which they were made.

If you cannot handle the fact that Souths are currently a bottom tier team in reality and that this is reflected in the game, and you are not prepared to utilise the customisation tools available to you to modify the situation, then I suggest this game is not for you.

For the record, I only asked one NRL Stats guy who was going to be in the grand final and he was right.

I think you have tried to justify it and I can see how you have tried to reflect reality and also make it customisable.

You do keep saying this is based on real life but does the game have a salary cap? Should have been easy to impliment.

Nah your right Mario.....I like mature games. Like ones where I don;t have to suffer real life sadness in a computer game.

Cheers... I'm sure the game will be a success I'll wait till the more developed version comes along and there wont be any cheating, a fairdinkum player market with salary cap, continuous seasons, climate effects, and other factors that other games seem to have.

The talk is you guys have done well with this game, looks pretty and some tricky actions to be done.

Cheers
 

ripper

Guest
Messages
822
stfu6.jpg


Jesus christ your annoying
 

Hurriflatch

Referee
Messages
22,093
Could not have said it better myself.

Clevo look at it this way had this game been released two years ago Souths would not have even been in the game. :)
 

Goleel

Juniors
Messages
864
I don't know if I'm just more accepting of what is being done than you are Clevo, or you just want to stir something, or whatever, but team stats make perfect sense to me. Teams that have players of less individual skill than other sides can still perform better than other sides, and I reckon that needs to be reflected. Look at Melbourne this year, certainly not many big name players in there, especially in their pack, but they out played sides this year that have a lot more individual talent.

The same goes at the lower end of the scale. Souths playing roster, at full strength, may be about equal with the Manly or Wests sides, in fact, I'd say Souths have more talent in their standard side than Wests do, but (ignoring that Souths beat Wests twice this year, I'm going on general results throughout the season here) Wests performed a lot better than Souths did, they were more competitive throughout the entire season and won more games. I don't think Souths are gonna be at a level of say, Halifax (i.e. wont win a game all season and get hammered by 60 each week) but face it, Souths aren't that good, even if their individual players have more talent than some sides, they are more likely to capitulate, especially in defense, than other sides, because that's the way the team has gone this year.

As for players being 'handicapped' by going to another club, that's the way it has to be implemented. How else would you differentiate the way some teams play from others? The Warriors have great attacking flair, because of the WAY they play football, and there is no individual rating for 'make a team play fancier football' in the game, and it would be impossible to do, so you do the next best thing, make the players in the side perform better in attack by changing their team attacking rating, so players using the Warriors will be more inclined to attack and play the way that side does.

Same goes for Souths at the bottom end. Even though their players aren't that bad as individual defenders or attackers, they just have no cohesion in many games, and since you can't have a rating for that type of thing, because even with decent individual players (like Parramatta this year, they have great defenders in their side, but still had games where they got beaten by 30 or so points) there can still be hidings dished out to them, and how do you reflect that? You change players ratings in defense, so that it requires more effort to hold teams to lower scores with them. It's as good as the game can manage at this stage, and if you want a game that doesn't need to use techniques like this to replicate how certain teams play, you'll be waiting a long time, and will be expecting too much, because it wont happen for a long time yet.

Soccer and gridiron games have it easy. You have formations and player tendencies, to be aggresive or defensive, in gridiron you have playbooks which can be manipulated to replicate a teams attack or defense, the more attacking sides simply have the more adventurous playbooks. You can't do that with league, so you have to come up with other measures, and I think this is the best way they could have handled it.

So what, Joey might not be as good as he is at the Knights if you move him to souths. Fletch did have a great season at Souths, yeah, but if you moved him into another club who performed better in 2003 and had him play the same level of football he did for souths, he probably would have played better in a better side, more chances in attack, better players running off him and supporting him, etc...

Just lay off Mario. You haven't played the game, not many people have. Give it a chance before you crucify it, and if it really does offend you that Souths are going to be a sh!t side in the game, do two things, one, watch some more of this years football and see they were sh!t this year and its only being accurate, and two, if you are still offended by souths being crap, just don't buy the game, go and play ET's Rugby, I hear they were still a decent side back then. Just don't keep whinging about the same thing over and over when all you are doing is speculating, because you've just come in here, whinged, complained and stirred the developers of the game, offering nothing positive at all.
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
Goleel thanks for your response. I'm answering mario mostly becuase I thought he was a developer rep (i'm prety sure he is).... I wasn;t attacking him personally just his opinion. Which I can see his point of view just concerned about the implimentation.

I agree with what you say IF you just clicked a button and you watch your team perform (IE from a coaches perspective). Since we players will decide the tactics, when to pass, kick etc team stats don't really mean anything. Especially since johnny 4 year old ain;t going to play as well as Johnny 20 year old.

People keep throwing real life performances throughout the year but it's a moot argument when hardly anyone will realistically play a team without fudged players. Seeing as there is no salary cap it throws team stats further out the window.

I'm not saying it will be a bad game out of all this all I am saying is that the game needs to ignore handicapping because of one year stats for it to have longevity.

From what I have been told privately it's not hard to win as Souths...this isn;t my point though. I'm sure I could win as souths too but to cripple players is an incorrect concept but Mario did say the team performance overall improves...which allays my argument somewhat. Still it's the principle that I am arguing here. I am not against this game.

Will next years stats come out as an expansion?
 
Messages
789
This whole topis is SO stupid!!!!!!

Did this Clevo guy expect Souths to be world beaters or something.....I can't wait for this game and can't wait to win with Souths....I know when ARL 96 came out once you mastered it with good teams you played with lower teams and it made it more of a challenge.

I think the point Mario is trying to make is that Teams as well as Players have stats. I think I saw in one screenie that Team stats were like "willingness to attack" "defence" or "teamwork"

Therefore if those TEAM stats were low then the overall team performance would be lower, bu of course having Johns in your team would help.....

Hope that makes some sense, I can't believe how much of a big deal some people are making of this.
 

theVodkaCircle

Juniors
Messages
762
Clevo said:
You do keep saying this is based on real life but does the game have a salary cap? Should have been easy to impliment.

And whats the name of the game youve made then to draw such programming knowledge ?

Clevo said:
I like mature games. Like ones where I don;t have to suffer real life sadness in a computer game.

Oh christ, break out the freakin violins. Is it HES or Sidhes fault (or ours for that matter) that the Bunnies are underperforming ? I think not.

Clevo said:
Tell me on what stats that would prove A johns would have had a worse season in Souths....tell me on what stats Bryan Fletcher played better in the Aust team than in Souths

You prove to me with stats that Johns wouldnt have a lower quality season with Souths.

Clevo said:
Nah it's pretty obvious to me that Club Stats should be removed from a game of this type....let the player stats and real life player skill determin the outcome of the game not some objective non-exsistent statistics that cripple a player due to the team.

And no team has a coach or any other staff or infrastructure that come into the equation ???

Clevo said:
Who else other than Warrior, penrith and rooster supporters will keep the original team as found in the Box???

Me. And most other people I imagine. Once you win the comp, then you have fun with made up lineups.

Clevo said:
The game would have sold whether it had the NRL logo on it or not.

I think the NRL would have something to say about that.

Face it pal, your opinions are in the minority and to be frank, youre the only person Ive heard bitching about this. If you want to bleat and carry on, fine. Dont expect a nice response to ill considered rantings.
 

Criswell

Juniors
Messages
156
Surely what Clevo really means is that unlike the English Soccer Manager games, Souths can never actually improve.

Now this is unfair. Imagine all the Ppanthers fans if this game had been produced 2 years ago?????
 

theVodkaCircle

Juniors
Messages
762
OK, let me spell it out.
You get the game
You play the NRL premiership as your favourite team.
You end up wherever it is on the ladder and either play in the finals or not.
You finish the season.
You can then either play the season again the same way or.....

Create your own comp which can be the 2004 season, changing the rosters, changing the team stats to what you think will be next years lineups or whatever the hell you want.
You have about a dozen save slots I think so theres 12 years of consecutive football.
Id say it would be a bit of work to update the rosters at the end of each season but the options there if you so desire.

The NRL season that is the default one is based on 2003. Thats just the way it is. Live with it.
 

Hurriflatch

Referee
Messages
22,093
Criswell said:
Surely what Clevo really means is that unlike the English Soccer Manager games, Souths can never actually improve.

Now this is unfair. Imagine all the Ppanthers fans if this game had been produced 2 years ago?????

There were no Panther fans two years ago.

Just like Souths were not there two years ago.


One good thing that was kept from two years ago in the game is the Hill at Parra
 
Messages
4,975
What is the complaint.

I want a realistsic game

My team sucks......I hope they dont suck in this game.

Well if this game is realistic, Souths will be terrible and Manly wont be far behind.



As a Panther fan I remember this game was supposed to come out in 2002. I couldnt wait. Give me a crappy Panthers side but just let me play the damn game!

Now by luck it turns out as a Panthers fan I'll probably be playing with the highest rated team in the game. Great....but just let me play the damn game.

Stop bloody complaining over things that are in a game 99% or people have not played yet!
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
And whats the name of the game youve made then to draw such programming knowledge ?

It's easy to impliment.... you put a $ value to stats then cap the limit to each team.


Oh christ, break out the freakin violins. Is it HES or Sidhes fault (or ours for that matter) that the Bunnies are underperforming ? I think not.

I'm not blaming anyone other than Souths for their performance on the field. I can however blame HES or Sidhes for the performance in the game. This is beside the point I am making but I guess what I'm raising is just going over the top of your head. Beside, if this game is based on real life...remove modification od stats and bring in a salary cap to limit how many A.Johns clones you can add to the team (as an example)


You prove to me with stats that Johns wouldnt have a lower quality season with Souths.

That's my point... there are no stats either way. Mario said these things are based on real stats. I say show them to me.


And no team has a coach or any other staff or infrastructure that come into the equation ???

If they are going to come into the equation then serialise the seasons...give me a chance to improve the team I love. Instead what we get is Souths stuck in perpetual 2003 stats at the begining of each season...is that fair? No! Unless of course you intend buying the new version every year


Me. And most other people I imagine. Once you win the comp, then you have fun with made up lineups.

Then for Souths fans we HAVE to play with a made up team to feel like winners?????


I think the NRL would have something to say about that.

and no doubt had a say in the team stats

Face it pal, your opinions are in the minority and to be frank, youre the only person Ive heard bitching about this. If you want to bleat and carry on, fine. Dont expect a nice response to ill considered rantings.

I think I have been quite reasonable and offered alternatives and respected the noteworthy replies such as your. If this had been a flame war believe me...you'd be crying now. I can;t help it that within 5 minutes of knowing about this game I "discovered" a fundamental incorrectness based on perception rather than any real stats. I guess that makes me pretty smart. Fanbois generally don;t know how to access things objectively. It's a shame I am in the minority but that's the way it goes.

But thanks for your input.....for such a long winded one you failed to change my mind.
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
Criswell said:
Surely what Clevo really means is that unlike the English Soccer Manager games, Souths can never actually improve.

Now this is unfair. Imagine all the Ppanthers fans if this game had been produced 2 years ago?????


Exactly Criswell.... Whoo hooo! I can't wait to play a game with Souths stuck in perpetual 2003 crappy stats. Yes I'm drooling with anticipation to see my team not only get whacked in real life but in a computer game as well!!!! Woot!

I can;t wait to unwrap tha game and start modifying the player stats. So I can play....

Criswell passes it to Clevo, darts.... Oh he cracks through the tissue defense of the hapless roosters, steps to the left, the right.... lines up minichello who is slow off the mark..... fends him off and blows him a kiss as he dives for his fifth try in 15 minutes.

:)
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
ThrashViking said:
Dude,Shut up!Stop hassling the maker of this game because your team is considered a joke by many,many people


You in the right forum? Command and Pillage game is ------------> that way. :lol:
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
theVodkaCircle said:
OK, let me spell it out.
You get the game
You play the NRL premiership as your favourite team.
You end up wherever it is on the ladder and either play in the finals or not.
You finish the season.
You can then either play the season again the same way or.....

Create your own comp which can be the 2004 season, changing the rosters, changing the team stats to what you think will be next years lineups or whatever the hell you want.
You have about a dozen save slots I think so theres 12 years of consecutive football.
Id say it would be a bit of work to update the rosters at the end of each season but the options there if you so desire.

The NRL season that is the default one is based on 2003. Thats just the way it is. Live with it.

Yes I realise this... but I would prefer if the 2004 season was automatically configured based on the team performance of the way I performed with MY team in the 2003 season.... the challenge is much higher the glory more satisfying. To do a Penrith with a tree year build up just makes it so much sweeter yes?

For example... one of the most popular games on the market at the moment is Premier League Manager (UK SOCCER) I always pick Hull because they are a crappy team in 3rd division.

However, with my skills (as a gamer) I can take them to Premier division over a series of seasons. In this game when I end the season and I'm back to where I started from, having to not only raise the difficulty level but to then modify individual stats of players and team to get more challenge (or play Souths). Which is fine ( though I imagine tedious cause there's a hell of a lot of players) but that currupts the realism and in my opinion, the intent of the game as stated by Mario (though we all know we will modify things quite a bit anyway) Eventually your team will always be the God Like team sweeping all before them.... this makes for less interesting gaming (IMHO) and therefore reduce the longevity of the game. It would be like watching the 2003 grand final over and over again as a Rooster fan (imagine that! :) )

The problem with this system (IMHO) is the efforts you put into one season means nothing the year after...whereas with the example I gave above the efforts of your thinking and twicth skills as a gamer has a compounding effect.

Sorry but for me,

playe season

start same season again

play season as other team

start same season again

modify 1-250+ player stats

start same season again

modify 1-250+ player stats

start same season again

gets a bit repetitive when for me (IMHO) playing one season, importing some good players whilst maintaining a salary cap and building up your team wisely and slowly, starting from the bottom start to improve. Then the following year build up on the previous years buildup till I win a grandfinal is more engrossing and exciting.

I realise many young gamers go for instant gratification these days (Counter strike rather than Everquest) and I guess commercially you have to cater for the people more likely to play computer games.


Thanks VodkaCircle
 

ripper

Guest
Messages
822
It might have to do with the fact that they have had 1/2 the development time of companies like EA Sports and are running on a shoe string budget.
 

Clevo

Juniors
Messages
654
ripper73 said:
It might have to do with the fact that they have had 1/2 the development time of companies like EA Sports and are running on a shoe string budget.


Oh for sure yes..... I have taken that into consideration.
 
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