Is touch footy RL?

[LeagueLegend]

I can't understand why the NRL isn't getting involved with either association.

ARL Foundation which then went on to be become ARL Development did try to do something with Tag when it was in its infancy. They butchered it big time and then came up with LeagueTag as their own. The difference? None really, except if a ARL development officer offers tag as one of their services to their area it is known as LeagueTag not OzTag.

Touch receives plenty of govt. funding through the Australian Sports Commission, to be honest they wouldn't see the value in associating with league. They'd give up too much and get little in return. As for OzTag, they've been burnt already by ARL so nothing is going to happen there.

 

[Thomas]

Touch receives plenty of govt. funding through the Australian Sports Commission, to be honest they wouldn't see the value in associating with league. They'd give up too much and get little in return. As for OzTag, they've been burnt already by ARL so nothing is going to happen there.

Yep. Spot on. Why would touch want to associate themselves with the ARL/NRL when they are doing just nicely on their own?

What's in it for touch?

I guess the ARL/NRL can go to Austouch's HQ, cap in hand, and ask nicely if they can associate themselves with the game.

 

[Parra]

The international Touch rules use the RL derived game.

There is no recognised version of RU touch, though many RU clubs etc could (and do) come up with their own versions.

The RFU is (ironically) merely branding the RL derived form of touch:
http://rugbipensador.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/touchrugbybooklet.pdf

The official version is "Walla Tag". It's like a modified form of oztag that includes kicking, lineouts and a modified form of an uncontested maul called a ball-take. There is a very successful comp run at Kellyville in Western Sydney.

Walla Tag is promoted by the ARU & NSWRU.

Rugby clubs have generally played standard touch-footy - fairly generic and the rules are league like in as much as there is a tackle count.

The dump & run and the reliance on voluntary 'tackles' makes touch footy next to useless once players get beyond the social level.

Tag - based footy would seem to be the form of the game that the ARL/ARU should be promoting.

 

[Hindyscrack]

Yep. Spot on. Why would touch want to associate themselves with the ARL/NRL when they are doing just nicely on their own?

What's in it for touch?

I guess the ARL/NRL can go to Austouch's HQ, cap in hand, and ask nicely if they can associate themselves with the game.

If the NRL/ARL fiasco sorts its self out in the future, it would be insane not to link with touch or tag. It would hardly need to go cap in hand.

The above story about the butchered link with tag is hardly suprising knowing out bumbling administrations.

 

[Thomas]

If the NRL/ARL fiasco sorts its self out in the future, it would be insane not to link with touch or tag. It would hardly need to go cap in hand.

The above story about the butchered link with tag is hardly suprising knowing out bumbling administrations.

Oh yeah mate, I can see what the NRL/ARL can get from linking to Touch....but what can touch get from it?


Of course it won't happen...due to bumbling from up high as stated.

 

[RL1908]

But they cant just say it. As much as Touch may be a derivative of RL, it is a seperate entity, with a different board of control, charter etc, so is now considered a seperate sport. RL cant just go around laying claim to these playing numbers (and would soon find themselves facing legal action if they did) unless they bring it under their umbrella.

It's not about expanding the NRL/ARL/NZRL empire, but changing media/public's perceptions as to what is RL (in all its forms). Touch/Oz bodies don't have to come under the NRL/ARL/NZRL for that to happen.

I wasn't suggesting that the ARL/NRL start "laying claim" to these participant numbers - just simply state in media releases etc what is a known already reported fact (i.e. numbers, spread etc) that these bodies already put into the public domain themselves.

 

[LeagueLegend]

It doesn't work like that.

 

[HevyDevy]

But the problem is that every decade that passes by sees the game get faster and more physically demanding upon the players. Meaning that while the NRL and SL (to a point) are ok because they have fulltime trained athletes, the RL game for blokes in their 20s at the social level in the suburbs and in the bush will increasingly be a very demanding game for Tues/Thurs night trainers (if they do any at all) to play.

Well there does seem to be a push starting to happen to slow the game down a bit - and rightly so too Sean.

 

[RL1908]

It doesn't work like that.

What? Adding one sentence to a media release or quote from an offical re-stating what is already a known fact in the public domain? If it is to the advantage of any business to repeat a known fact in their publicity they would do it.

There is a difference between RL claiming touch/Oztag participant numbers, and RL simply re-stating the participant numbers already put in the public domain by the Touch/Oztag bodies. Clearly, I'm suggesting the latter, not the former.

Touch/Oztag don't have to come under any official RL body for people's perceptions to be changed into a realisation that these games are RL. All RL has to do is point out that Touch/Oztag are RL, and how many people the Touch/Oztag bodies have publically stated are playing it.

That is not claiming (or even inferring) ownership of Touch/Oztag.

The facts already speak for themselves (that Touch/Oztag are RL, and the numbers that play these games) - all I'm suggesting RL do is "join-the-dots" so that everyone can see what is before their eyes.

 

[RL1908]

Well there does seem to be a push starting to happen to slow the game down a bit - and rightly so too Sean.

The 10m rule was introduced to create space for greater attacking options, not to make the game faster. Somewhere along the line that was missed.

 

[Perth Red]

They don't even have to say it is RL, by mentioning it in the same comment they are associating it with RL and eventually the publics perception will be that it is RL.

ie an ARL spokeman said " the number of juniors playing RL has increased by 25% and the number of people playing Touch footy has increased 48%"

They aren't actually saying anything but the assumption by joe public will be they are interelated.

 

[The Engineers Room]

The 10m rule was introduced to create space for greater attacking options, not to make the game faster. Somewhere along the line that was missed.

Probably when teams were penalised for flops and dummy half running become dominant. If they let them hold down they will be forced to break the line through power and skill rather than just using a wrestle and a quick play the ball to control the tempo.

 

[Parra]

Probably when teams were penalised for flops and dummy half running become dominant. If they let them hold down they will be forced to break the line through power and skill rather than just using a wrestle and a quick play the ball to control the tempo.

Dummy half running became dominant and passing the ball became too risky about 10 seconds after the 10m rule got introduced. It was requested by coaches because they could more easily engineer percentage football rather than exciting football.

 

[Teddyboy]

Hasn't the NFL got Flag Football as a part of it's growth.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Hasn't the NFL got Flag Football as a part of it's growth.

Most of the local Brisbane gridiron clubs run flag football comps. I've never actually played but it looks alright.

 

[RL1908]

Dummy half running became dominant and passing the ball became too risky about 10 seconds after the 10m rule got introduced. It was requested by coaches because they could more easily engineer percentage football rather than exciting football.

Not quite - I put it down as season 1997 - the 1994 season (the first full season under the 10m rule) produced the sort of football that the 10m rule envisaged.

But by 1997, in the SL comp from the outset, and then in the ARL comp the 34-all draw between Manly & Illawarra in May 1997 - that was the first game that it became obvious to everyone that teams could go the length of the field in a set of 6 (with an attacking kick on the end of the set) via exploiting the 10m rule in the now modern manner.

In my view the 10m rule was well-intended rule change, but was ultimately exploited by coaches into negative play and the realisation that by choosing to die with the football (i.e. be tackled) your team is actually rewarded with a bonus 10m!

The 10m rule was pushed through by the English RFL in the belief that (in the wake of the 1992 RLWC Final) that the extra space would allow natural ball-playing skills to have more of a chance against the fitness/power game (of the Australians).

Unfortunately, while space was the desired outcome, it ended up being about speed, which has only made the problem worse.

 

[Teddyboy]

Most of the local Brisbane gridiron clubs run flag football comps. I've never actually played but it looks alright.

God you got Gridiron on top of all the other footy codes in Brisbane.
I think all League and Union clubs should run a Tag/Oztag comp or at least have a team or training going on in the summer months.

 

[HevyDevy]

Well they really should given the number of NRL players - guys like Matty Bowen and PJ Marsh - that have played representative touch.

As for the 10m rule, Sean is correct. The game really started to become too fast and too predictable when the tackle rules began to evolve almost entirely in favour of the ball carrier.

Case in point: the Jason Ryles penalty against Cronulla last season.

I'm not a Dragons fan but that sort of penalty is a real shame. Kearney makes a half-break and Ryles pulls off a crucial try-saving tackle from behind around the legs. But rather than be hailed a hero, he is penalised for holding on because tackles around the legs are counted as the ball carrier winning the tackle. To me, that's a huge problem in the game.

 

[RL1908]

Well they really should given the number of NRL players - guys like Matty Bowen and PJ Marsh - that have played representative touch.

As for the 10m rule, Sean is correct. The game really started to become too fast and too predictable when the tackle rules began to evolve almost entirely in favour of the ball carrier.

Case in point: the Jason Ryles penalty against Cronulla last season.

I'm not a Dragons fan but that sort of penalty is a real shame. Kearney makes a half-break and Ryles pulls off a crucial try-saving tackle from behind around the legs. But rather than be hailed a hero, he is penalised for holding on because tackles around the legs are counted as the ball carrier winning the tackle. To me, that's a huge problem in the game.

Rewarding attacking teams for being tackled....if you were inventing a football code do you think that would be a rule you'd adopt?

The problem for touch footy is that they duly adopted the 10m rule as well...and in that form of RL you can actually see attackers running at defenders (to get the free 10m for their team), rather than trying to avoid the defenders with a step or a pass.

Now we have 2 referees in the NRL, I'd rather that both the attack AND the defence be made to stand back 5m from the play-the-ball....put each ref on the 5m line, and we'd still achieve 10m between the teams and all the other ills of the 10m rule would be gone.

 

[RL1908]

As here in Aust, in the USA they have both "flag football" and "touch football" variants of American football. Touch football apparently began there in the 1930s.

Touch/flag is under various bodies (same as touch/flag here) and the ideal would be to have a unified body.

The games still remain outside of the NFL, but no one is suggesting their flag/touch games aren't American football.

It does seem that the NFL are moving towards bringing in youth flag http://www.nflrush.com/play/nflflag & adult flag leagues, with an eye towards reinforcing the NFL brand awareness/reach.

NFL franchises are also using flag as a marketing/brand tool, with tournaments on their home fields a big carrot for many, and suggestions that all the NFL franchises may do the same, leading to a national touch/flag Super Bowl.

http://www.flagfootball.org/FF-History.htm


Will there be an attempt to unite the leagues again ... the final history of flag football has not been written, but chances are slim. The answer may be in the NFL and it's program to develop youth leagues around the country.

As those players mature they will continue to play flag football and, as the NFL hopes, support the pro game. Will there be a demand to unify the game that comes of this?

Take for example the Carolina Panthers of the NFL ... For three years now they have hosted a 4 on 4 tournament in Charlotte, NC each April. Within weeks of announcing the inaugural event in 2004 a full 128 teams had signed up to play. Its draw may be the chance to play in Panthers Stadium but the tournament is well organized and well run.

The format for a unified National Flag Football Championship could come in the way of each NFL city hosting a flag football tournament similar to what the Panthers are doing with the winners advancing to a national championship game.