Is touch footy RL?

[Dazraider]

Touch footy is for the quick players as it very fast game
its not RL or oztag now oztag is alot closer to rugby league than touch and thats a great game.
back in 1999 we was rated to come last but with 12 game winniong streak we won the grand final
league is all about defense if you cant tackle then you cant win and touch you can cheat by thinking you touched a player and call it plus drop ball rule and no kicking sucks

 

[LeagueLegend]

NRL are tightasses and lack common sense.

As opposed to your common sense in making a claim for another sport because it share similarities. You're a lawyers wet dream!

 

[RL1908]

That's the question that's been asked over the last 8 or so pages.

They all have their own place, their development programs and share of the govt. funding pie. I can't see why any of them need to or want to give that up nor recognise what the other is doing just for publicity sakes as some have suggested. All three (League, Touch and Tag) are about selling the praises of their own product despite what little variations exist between them all.

I don't think the initial step has to be anything more than just the RL bodies simply getting the message out there that touch/Oztag are safe/social forms of RL i.e. it just merely needs to be said. No formal (or even informal) arrangement needs to be in place for that to happen.

It is interesting that on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec_footy (thanks *Paul*) it says: "....The Carter Report titled “Investing in the Future of Australian Football (October 2001)”, identified segment gaps in Aussie Rules and its demographic reach. The research found that unlike codes such as rugby league with the successful touch football (rugby league), Aussie Rules did not have a recreational version of the game to cater for the growing recreational participation market."

The "Rec Footy" is a direct response from the AFL to match the existence/popularity/growth of RL's touch footy to it's code....yet RL has itself seemingly not been able to come to the same realisation i.e. playing 13-a-side RL is increasingly less appealing, and the public (player numbers)will migrate to a safe/social form of the game.

In the 21st Century, as RL, RU & AFL all become more professional, and the physical gap between the pros and the social/weekend footballers widens, the safer forms of each code will grow in numbers. RL is a tough physical game, and increasingly so.

Whilever we don't treat touch/Oztag as RL, then RL will look all the smaller (than it really is).

According to http://www.semiprofootball.org/ in the USA below the NFL "there are over 800 teams in the US that refer to themselves as semi-pro, minor league, professional development, senior amateur or adult amateur."

800 non-NFL teams across the USA isn't a lot to brag about (and as the NFL has no competitor, it doesn't have to). But it is an indication of where RL is headed (numbers wise) if it doesn't have an acknowledged social/safe form of RL in the market.

 

[Redsfan]

I'm mates with an Australian touch rep. I'll tell him he's actually played for Australia in league.

 

[gottabegood]

RL1908 you are one very patient lad, but it appears how many ways you try to explain the obvious benefits for all parties, many just don't get it.

What happens if Rugby League dies away and the hence the League game is no longer in the Media. How long then do you think touch or OZTag will stay around after that...well I'll tell ya, it will slowly erode....to nothing.

So if you think Touch and Oztag have nothing to do with League and either couldn't benefit from a large mutual power base.....then you know stuff all about business and the way of the world.

*Of course Rugby Union would then stake a sole claim for the other games...

 

[JB]

RL1908 you are one very patient lad, but it appears how many ways you try to explain the obvious benefits for all parties, many just don't get it.

That's not the point.

I think the benefits for Touch to come under the League banner are obvious. Touch being a cash strapped sport in (especially in NZ) would benefit hugely if this happened. The point is, despite Touch being a deriviation of League, it is a sport/product/package in it's own right, and despite however much RL1908 would like it to happen. League cannot go aroung claiming these numbers as it's own.

 

[LeagueLegend]

So if you think Touch and Oztag have nothing to do with League and either couldn't benefit from a large mutual power base.....then you know stuff all about business and the way of the world.

Declare your interest and tell us all what role you occupy in either league or touch. From your impassionate pleas for unity of the codes (touch, league & OzTag) I'm going to say you don't occupy a role. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[Talanexor]

Lets be honest - who here has played touch with their mates and played "proper" touch rules? Didn't think so. Everyone plays with normal play-the-balls (as opposed to rolling), kicks and a marker.

Oztag has all of these things, though kicks are limited in height, and for that reason it is far superior to organised touch. Kids got a problem with getting tags? They'll pick it up after a few games (great for hand-eye co-ordination). But if you're really struggling, give them touch with a play the balls, kicks and markers.

Otherwise touch is a simplistic, one-dimensional game. Three dumps down the middle of the field to get them rolling backwards, then give it to the fast guy with the sidestep. Thats all it takes. Very little passing, catching, kicking, anything.

 

[Teddyboy]

I think 1908 should stop wasting his time on this thread and get starting on the NRL as he is very much right about the whole subject.

 

[RL1908]

That's not the point.

I think the benefits for Touch to come under the League banner are obvious. Touch being a cash strapped sport in (especially in NZ) would benefit hugely if this happened. The point is, despite Touch being a deriviation of League, it is a sport/product/package in it's own right, and despite however much RL1908 would like it to happen. League cannot go aroung claiming these numbers as it's own.

The Touch/Oztag bodies can't deny what their games are (safe/social forms of RL), their RL origins (and founding purposes), how many particpants/teams they have, and where across Aust/NZ they are played - these are all known and publically stated facts already published in the public arena by the Touch/Oztag bodies.

Re-stating those already published facts in a NRL/ARL/NZRL/club media release, report and/or interview is not RL "claiming these numbers as it's own".

How many times have you seen a business make use of the results of another body's investigation/report when those numbers/results have put their product in a good light? It happens all the time.

All the NRL/ARL would be doing is connecting the dots in the public's perception i.e. touch/Oztag games/players are are a safe/social form of RL.

That isn't "claiming" that Touch/Oztag players/games are run by the NRL/ARL/NZRL.

Nor is it deceptive - touch/Oztag are safe/social forms of RL.

 

[JB]

The Touch/Oztag bodies can't deny what their games are (safe/social forms of RL), their RL origins (and founding purposes), how many particpants/teams they have, and where across Aust/NZ they are played - these are all known and publically stated facts already published in the public arena by the Touch/Oztag bodies.

Re-stating those already published facts in a NRL/ARL/NZRL/club media release, report and/or interview is not RL "claiming these numbers as it's own".

How many times have you seen a business make use of the results of another body's investigation/report when those numbers/results have put their product in a good light? It happens all the time.

All the NRL/ARL would be doing is connecting the dots in the public's perception i.e. touch/Oztag games/players are are a safe/social form of RL.

That isn't "claiming" that Touch/Oztag players/games are run by the NRL/ARL/NZRL.

Nor is it deceptive - touch/Oztag are safe/social forms of RL.

Nobody's denying where the game originated from. But, there is a big difference between the origin of Touch, and the set up and evolution of the game into the entity it now is.
If it was that easy for RL to include these numbers as it 's own, why do you think they havent already done this? Simple. They cant. It's a seperate sport.
Having a long time involvement in NZ Touch (mostly as a player/coach) i actually agree with your sentiments and would love to see Touch come under control of RL. Despite being 1 of the biggest participation sports over here, it is massively under funded and lacking in good admistration all over the country. So much so that at Module and Representative level we see fewer and fewer teams competing because of this.
However, i doubt this could happen (over here at least) as the NZRL are in a sorry state, and can barely manage their own affairs.

 

[JB]

Lets be honest - who here has played touch with their mates and played "proper" touch rules? Didn't think so. Everyone plays with normal play-the-balls (as opposed to rolling), kicks and a marker.

Oztag has all of these things, though kicks are limited in height, and for that reason it is far superior to organised touch. Kids got a problem with getting tags? They'll pick it up after a few games (great for hand-eye co-ordination). But if you're really struggling, give them touch with a play the balls, kicks and markers.

Otherwise touch is a simplistic, one-dimensional game. Three dumps down the middle of the field to get them rolling backwards, then give it to the fast guy with the sidestep. Thats all it takes. Very little passing, catching, kicking, anything.

How very narrow minded. Because you've never progressed further than social grade, that's all the game is.
At the higher levels the game is all about ball movement, speed, creating space not only for yourself but for others, support play, set plays, all which involve a total myriad of skills. Which do translate well to RL.

You sound like 1 of these Tag v Touch windbags. How boring. Even though i'm a Touchie, i dont mind tag. It's not in our area yet, but would love to give it a go. It's probably a bit more League specific. A couple of NZ Touch mates of mine got called up into a NZ Tag team at the Tag WC last year? and carved.
The only thing 1 dimensional around here is your view point.

 

[gottabegood]

Declare your interest and tell us all what role you occupy in either league or touch. From your impassionate pleas for unity of the codes (touch, league & OzTag) I'm going to say you don't occupy a role. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

A. I love the game. Is there something else u need??

LeagueLegend, some say that the game could be running a little more effectively (ludicrous as it may sound), and this is just another one of multitude of issues we can...you know..probably do a little better with. The perception of the game is under siege, and at the very least making those 3 games work together to enhance it's goodwill, you would think is not a bad thing at all...as pointed out by other posters (mainly RL1908). Maybe the simpe things are often the hardest to grasp.

Question for you, why do you think Demetrio and Co continually throw Auskick numbers in the media.

 

[LeagueLegend]

Question for you, why do you think Demetrio and Co continually throw Auskick numbers in the media.

They do so because AFL developed the Auskick program. League's equivalent that they developed is Kids to Kangaroos - not touch football, not OzTag. Indeed the simple things are hard to understand aren't they.

 

[gottabegood]

They do so because AFL developed the Auskick program. League's equivalent that they developed is Kids to Kangaroos - not touch football, not OzTag. Indeed the simple things are hard to understand aren't they.

Obviously they are.

Maybe it's because Touch and Oztag, derivatives of Rugby League, were initially administered with no attachment to Rugby League because of poor foresight/management. But the product of Rugby League developed both games.

Considering both Touch and Oztag are also dependant on the popularity of Rugby League, though independently run, would it be foolish to not leverage the game/s with any possible means.....for the good of these games and deterrent to others that are hostile.

 

[RL1908]

Nobody's denying where the game originated from. But, there is a big difference between the origin of Touch, and the set up and evolution of the game into the entity it now is.
If it was that easy for RL to include these numbers as it 's own, why do you think they havent already done this? Simple. They cant. It's a seperate sport.
Having a long time involvement in NZ Touch (mostly as a player/coach) i actually agree with your sentiments and would love to see Touch come under control of RL. Despite being 1 of the biggest participation sports over here, it is massively under funded and lacking in good admistration all over the country. So much so that at Module and Representative level we see fewer and fewer teams competing because of this.
However, i doubt this could happen (over here at least) as the NZRL are in a sorry state, and can barely manage their own affairs.

They are the same game with modified rules.

And, I restate, what I've been suggesting here does not need the touch/Oztag bodies to come under the RL banner.

 

[RL1908]

Re the touch footy = mod RL thoughts, I've added an article to my website exploring the issues/history in an effort to widen the debate - RL really needs to develop a mod form (or embrace touch footy) to cater for recreational footballers in the 21st century, especially if the pro level NRL game becomes impossible for the weekend bush or suburban social footballer to play:
http://www.RL1908.com/blog/touch-football.htm

 

[kbw]

What happens if Rugby League dies away and the hence the League game is no longer in the Media. How long then do you think touch or OZTag will stay around after that...well I'll tell ya, it will slowly erode....to nothing.

So if you think Touch and Oztag have nothing to do with League and either couldn't benefit from a large mutual power base.....then you know stuff all about business and the way of the world.

That gave me the laugh for the day thankyou.
I can make things up too, but thats funny stuff.

 

[russ13]

http://www.rl1908.com/blog/touch-football.htm

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...By way of comparison, it is worth noting that in American football, outside of the NFL, there are just 800 adult teams (semi-pro and amateur) in the whole of the USA. American football is immensely popular as a spectator sport, but not as a participant sport...[/FONT]

Incredible stat.

 

[RL1908]

http://www.rl1908.com/blog/touch-football.htm

Incredible stat.

The 800 teams reference is sourced from http://www.semiprofootball.org/

While there are exceptions, almost all NFL players come through the College system -so the adult leagues (amateur/semi-pro) are really not of much interest to the NFL and it club owners.

It doesn't appear that they (the NFL and its teams) contribute to funding the adult game outside of the NFL.

Clearly, American football is also not exactly an easy game to play if you're just a social weekend footballer. Some will, but many more baulk at it due to the injury risk. All of which means that the game has little existence as an adult participant sport.

I was simply speculating that as each year goes by, RL is hardly getting easier to play for the bush/park footballer.

Which not only raises the question about touch footy and having a mod/safer form of RL to play, but whether the future will see less funding of adult RL clubs as that level increasingly provides less and less footballers.

I'm not saying I agree with that model at all, but if all NRL players come through the Toyota Cup (akin to USA College football and the NFL), and money is increasingly a scarce commodity, will that happen to RL too?

It seems to be happening in RU, where money from RU bodies to suburban and bush RU clubs is minimal. I don't know about AFL funding, but they too, like RL, RU and soccer, are all focusing $ on junior development/expansion, and the weekend social footballers (and their clubs) are not getting the funding support they once did.