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"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,485
Conferences are stupid. There's a grand total of one place where they make sense. The North American sports have 30+ teams and unless they want their season to run all year round they can't have a competition without them. A conference system will never be necessary in Australian sport. Even the Premier League does just fine with 20 teams in a single table.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,105
Conferences are stupid. There's a grand total of one place where they make sense. The North American sports have 30+ teams and unless they want their season to run all year round they can't have a competition without them. A conference system will never be necessary in Australian sport. Even the Premier League does just fine with 20 teams in a single table.

Conferences build rivalries, create big games along way & terminate in super bowl.
Comments about why usa has them are wrong. Baseball & NBA play a huge schedule, only NFL has short season (actually expanded for first time this year). NFL's conferences are result of merger with afl.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Guarantees non Sydney teams as well is that equally repugnant?!
'Non-Sydney teams' isn't a group. Auckland (both the city and the club it's self) doesn't benefit if a Brisbane team makes the GF, and vice versa.

So yeah it's still repugnant in what is supposedly a 'national' competition, and the fact that anybody within the sport takes it seriously should tell you everything you need to know about why a sporting product that is (or rather was...) so great has totally failed to meet it's potential not only nationally, but globally.
It's smart business because it maximizes audience. Super League was good in theory but reality is nobody wants to see Adelaide or Canberra play.
ARL 1997 avg attendance- 10,610.
SL avg attendance- 13,039.

Top five highest club avg attendances in 1997-

1. Brisbane (SL)- 19,298
2. NQ (SL)- 17,539
3. Parramatta (ARL)- 15,647
4. Auckland (SL)- 15,442
5. Adelaide (SL)- 15,330

Present SL as it was intended, i.e. the original concept and before two years of BS and bad PR poisoned the RL market, and it's numbers would have absolutely dominated the ARL's.

Do we need to talk about the AFL's numbers as well? Because as our closest competitor, and as a truly national sport (i.e. a living example of what is being advocated for the NRL), they consistently kick the NRL's arse by basically every metric except one, ratings, and they regularly beat the NRL by that metric as well.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,105
'Non-Sydney teams' isn't a group. Auckland (both the city and the club it's self) doesn't benefit if a Brisbane team makes the GF, and vice versa.

So yeah it's still repugnant in what is supposedly a 'national' competition, and the fact that anybody within the sport takes it seriously should tell you everything you need to know about why a sporting product that is (or rather was...) so great has totally failed to meet it's potential not only nationally, but globally.

ARL 1997 avg attendance- 10,610.
SL avg attendance- 13,039.

Top five highest club avg attendances in 1997-

1. Brisbane (SL)- 19,298
2. NQ (SL)- 17,539
3. Parramatta (ARL)- 15,647
4. Auckland (SL)- 15,442
5. Adelaide (SL)- 15,330

Present SL as it was intended, i.e. the original concept and before two years of BS and bad PR poisoned the RL market, and it's numbers would have absolutely dominated the ARL's.

Do we need to talk about the AFL's numbers as well? Because as our closest competitor, and as a truly national sport (i.e. a living example of what is being advocated for the NRL), they consistently kick the NRL's arse by basically every metric except one, ratings, and they regularly beat the NRL by that metric as well.

Afl has conference system it's not advertised as such. Draft & consessions given to Sydney teams to get them to finals every year along 10 (I think) teams from Melbourne to increase chance a team from there is represented.

Live attendance means shit. When comps merged they kept mainly Sydney teams because that's who brought in ratings.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Afl has conference system it's not advertised as such. Draft & consessions given to Sydney teams to get them to finals every year along 10 (I think) teams from Melbourne to increase chance a team from there is represented.
Seriously, WTF are you talking about...
Live attendance means shit. When comps merged they kept mainly Sydney teams because that's who brought in ratings.
That's simply untrue, and anybody who lived through it, or knows anything about the 'criteria' can attest to that.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Say what you like about Vladys but he brought the NRL back to life last year before any other sport and now he has delivered expansion and got TV to cough up more money for it. Credit where credit is due.
He's also single-handedly made the game borderline unwatchable with constant ill-thought out rule and 'interpretations' changes.

He handed the game to Fox at a highly reduced rate for basically no reason. Makes you wonder why he's had nothing but good press from News when every other person in his position was dragged through the mud by them...

He's almost certainly going to waste the expansion slot, and force the NRL into a cycle of putting teams in every pissant region of Brisbane for the coming decades.

He's alienated every 'non-heartland' market, and set political relations with Vic, SA, WA, and probably places like ACT, NT, and NZ, back years.

Even some of his moves to keep the game going during covid were questionable at best. Like which areas of the game he cut funding, and how certain teams/markets consistently got the short end of his covid rules at the expense of others

I could go on, but the point is one good decision should only get you so far when all your other decisions have done so much damage.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,105
Seriously, WTF are you talking about...

That's simply untrue, and anybody who lived through it, or knows anything about the 'criteria' can attest to that.

Way to bring up 90's criteria which doesn't take into account that broadcasting rights are biggest source of income these days & dwarf ticketing. Also, Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane are mainly were population has seen growth.

Canberra can sell out stadium every week & hold billions in real estate, but nrl would still hope they'd never make grand final
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,105
He's also single-handedly made the game borderline unwatchable with constant ill-thought out rule and 'interpretations' changes.

He handed the game to Fox at a highly reduced rate for basically no reason. Makes you wonder why he's had nothing but good press from News when every other person in his position was dragged through the mud by them...

He's almost certainly going to waste the expansion slot, and force the NRL into a cycle of putting teams in every pissant region of Brisbane for the coming decades.

He's alienated every 'non-heartland' market, and set political relations with Vic, SA, WA, and probably places like ACT, NT, and NZ, back years.

Even some of his moves to keep the game going during covid were questionable at best. Like which areas of the game he cut funding, and how certain teams/markets consistently got the short end of his covid rules at the expense of others

I could go on, but the point is one good decision should only get you so far when all your other decisions have done so much damage.

Bitch & complain. Game more profitable than ever & is now in position to expand particularly with 17th team leading to 18th down track. Some ppl never happy
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Game more profitable than ever
Not to be pedantic but the most profitable years for the NRL was 2013 under Smith and Grant when the game made a $45mill surplus and 2018 under Greenberg and Beattie when the game made a $47mill surplus.

Under Vlandys that profit went down to $29mill in '19 and a $25mill loss last year (covid related but partly as he offered cut price tv rights for final two years to his mates).

It is good we are finally adding a new team though, even if it isn't expansion into a new market.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Still interested to know how the ARLC have determined its financially viable when the fTA deal isnt done. HAs Fox agreed to up its contract payment? Or are ARLC taking a gamble on the fTA deal covering it?


A second Brisbane team is just a fortnight away from officially being announced but not everyone is happy.
It was reported on Thursday that the NRL is preparing to confirm the Brisbane expansion side as the competition’s 17th franchise the week after the grand final.
It came after the ARL Commission reportedly approved the financial viability of the expansion team but one final roadblock remains.
The NRL is yet to meet with all 16 teams, who were “blindsided” by the report on Thursday according to The Sydney Morning Herald.
“One of the things that was promised to the clubs was the process would be collaborative, that they would come to the clubs and involve the clubs, so it would be disappointing if we’re told it’s all done,” one club official told The Herald.
That final step will begin on Friday and continue over the next week.
As The Australian’s Brent Read explained on Triple M, that is where things could get complicated.
“There was a commission meeting yesterday and the expectation was at that meeting we would have a definitive answer from the commission on whether they’d go ahead with it,” he said on Thursday night.
“They haven’t given that publicly because they still need to talk to the clubs. They’ve said they’ll take the clubs along with them on the journey but you can take it as read out of that commission meeting they made the decision to press the go button on expansion. It will happen.
“The clubs I’m sure will kick up a little stink and try squeeze some money from the NRL over it. They’re not overly happy over the way it’s all been handled.”

Read put forward Queenslanders Cameron Munster, Kalyn Ponga and Harry Grant as three big names to watch as the new franchise looks to land a marquee signing.
The three remaining bids in the race are the Brisbane Firehawks, Brisbane Jets and Redcliffe Dolphins, who pitched to the NRL late last month.
The new franchise could be approved in time for the 2023 season and clubs are concerned, with Munster, Ponga and Grant headlining a long list of off-contract players.
The sudden emergence of a new franchise would only give such players even more leverage when negotiating a new deal.
For instance, Parramatta’s Clinton Gutherson is one player off-contract at the end of 2022 who could now push for more money.
Gutherson’s manager was already agitating for a price rise after the Eels paid the fullback unders during his last deal.
A new team with lots of money to spend would only increase competition for Gutherson’s signature and regardless of whether he has any actual interest in the move, it could be used as a bargaining chip when negotiating with Parramatta.
South Sydney’s Cody Walker is another who could be lured to the expansion team, particularly if it is coached by Wayne Bennett.

As such, the Herald reports that some clubs want the new franchise’s addition to the league to be delayed until 2024, giving them more time to finalise rosters and respond to Covid-19-related financial implications.

Otherwise, the successful franchise will be allowed to begin contacting rival players from November 1.

 

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,485
Conferences build rivalries, create big games along way & terminate in super bowl.
Comments about why usa has them are wrong. Baseball & NBA play a huge schedule, only NFL has short season (actually expanded for first time this year). NFL's conferences are result of merger with afl.


The NHL is split into 4 conferences. The Major League Baseball conferences are a hangover from when the American League and the National League were two separate competitions, they unified under Major League and until 1997 teams from the separate Leagues could only play each other in the World Series.

The NBA is split in two and then into further regional groupings. Again that sport isn't comparable given that the Dallas Mavericks will play 4 games in 8 days to start the season. The NFL is the closest comparison to the NRL as both are contact sports.

Also conferences don't build rivalries, prior to 1997 the two Chicago baseball teams could never play each other. Literally deprived of an intercity rivalry in a massive market place.

Not to mention the proposed NRL conferences would basically make everyone not in the Sydney conference subject to 10x the travel which the RLPA would point out and the clubs would rightfully demand higher salaries for the non-Sydney clubs because their player welfare is at a higher risk than the teams who never have to travel further than a two hours drive.

The solution is pretty simple. 20 teams, everyone plays each other twice, 3 stand alone weeks for Origin. A top 10 with 8-10 playing in an elimination wildcard before the standard top 8 system.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,748
I have no issue with two pools of 9

Play each other home & away over 16 rounds in one season

And 9 rounds cross pool games

Combined table with Top 8

We are not far off a Sydney pool of 9 and regional pool of 9 today
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Way to bring up 90's criteria which doesn't take into account that broadcasting rights are biggest source of income these days & dwarf ticketing.
that’s only because the game isnt very popular with fee paying fans and does very little to change that. Most afl clubs revenue from fanbase dwarves the Money they get from the TV deal.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,105
The NHL is split into 4 conferences. The Major League Baseball conferences are a hangover from when the American League and the National League were two separate competitions, they unified under Major League and until 1997 teams from the separate Leagues could only play each other in the World Series.

The NBA is split in two and then into further regional groupings. Again that sport isn't comparable given that the Dallas Mavericks will play 4 games in 8 days to start the season. The NFL is the closest comparison to the NRL as both are contact sports.

Also conferences don't build rivalries, prior to 1997 the two Chicago baseball teams could never play each other. Literally deprived of an intercity rivalry in a massive market place.

Not to mention the proposed NRL conferences would basically make everyone not in the Sydney conference subject to 10x the travel which the RLPA would point out and the clubs would rightfully demand higher salaries for the non-Sydney clubs because their player welfare is at a higher risk than the teams who never have to travel further than a two hours drive.

The solution is pretty simple. 20 teams, everyone plays each other twice, 3 stand alone weeks for Origin. A top 10 with 8-10 playing in an elimination wildcard before the standard top 8 system.

Conferences don't build rivalry but eagles v cowboys is probably the biggest in NFL. You're like an insular afl fan with a frame of reference only of what happens in your own backyard.

Sydney would still travel throughout year but just play main 3 or 4 rivals twice.

Only 5 cities in Australia with population over a million & almost half the country lives in Sydney & Melbourne. A system which guantees multiple markets represented in gf is best
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,620
He's also single-handedly made the game borderline unwatchable with constant ill-thought out rule and 'interpretations' changes.

He handed the game to Fox at a highly reduced rate for basically no reason. Makes you wonder why he's had nothing but good press from News when every other person in his position was dragged through the mud by them...

He's almost certainly going to waste the expansion slot, and force the NRL into a cycle of putting teams in every pissant region of Brisbane for the coming decades.

He's alienated every 'non-heartland' market, and set political relations with Vic, SA, WA, and probably places like ACT, NT, and NZ, back years.

Even some of his moves to keep the game going during covid were questionable at best. Like which areas of the game he cut funding, and how certain teams/markets consistently got the short end of his covid rules at the expense of others

I could go on, but the point is one good decision should only get you so far when all your other decisions have done so much damage.
A lot of grey in this post

- We don't know the value of the fox deal
- You haven't seen the bids and we don't know how good the successful bid is going to go
- You still can't tell me if Redcliffe is such a terrible bid, then which is a better one you'd go for
- Fair point about the non-heartland markets - that was a piss poor thing to say by Vlandys
 

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