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"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

Messages
14,822
I’d imagine vic is like WA where most of the polynesian kids play union and league. Trick is to get the best of them to commit to the RL elite pathways at 16 plus. If like WA problem is union at grassroots has more clubs, better community reach, better schools programmes and more grassroots funding. Makes it hard for the league clubs who have poorer facilities and less funding to compete. Not sure if melbourne has League SHS scholarship program lime Perth? That has certainly helped get some kids to commit to league.
We don't have the money to compete with fumbleball at this level, but surely we have more than enough to drive RU into extinction. If we can push RU out of Australia then people who would have grown up to be RU fans will now be playing RL and attending NRL games.

I honestly don't think there's enough room for RL and RU. One will die, and we are in a stronger position to survive. Place more emphasis on the Pacific nations, with a Tonga vs Samoa series played alongside Origin, plus a PNG vs Fiji series, and all of a sudden we'll have a product that can capture the Polynesian and Melanesian community across Australia.
 

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,247
Code war book lol, I'm guessing its written by some "sport expert" from Latrobe Uni who is a lifelong member of Essendon

"It's only a matter of time before AFL is the dominant sport across all continents"

jokes aside the AFL has certainly made in roads into brisbane, not sure about the rest of QLD (2million+ people). The Suns seem to be a bigger basketcase than the Titans.

Deakin Uni, still victorian though

guys written a fair bit about multiple codes corporate, financial and broadcast stuff over the journey

 
Messages
14,822
Code war book lol, I'm guessing its written by some "sport expert" from Latrobe Uni who is a lifelong member of Essendon

"It's only a matter of time before AFL is the dominant sport across all continents"

jokes aside the AFL has certainly made in roads into brisbane, not sure about the rest of QLD (2million+ people). The Suns seem to be a bigger basketcase than the Titans.
I hear they have a strong presence in Cairns. We really need to strengthen the Queensland Cup, with more focus on the regional centres, to thwart AwFuL's expansion. Northern Pride should go back to being the Cairns Cyclones or adopting the North Queensland Marlins name, which is steeped in history. The SEQ needs a better spread of teams so that Greater Brisbane is better represented.

Wynnum Manly Seagulls --> Redland City Seagulls
Souths Logan Magpies --> Logan Magpies
Redcliffe Dolphins --> Moreton Bay Dolphins
Norths Devils --> Brisbane Devils

Devils can represent the northern half of Brisbane and adopt elements from Wests Panthers, such as the red and black colour set.

Brisbane Tigers can absorb the Souths Magpies territory. They should just change their name to Brisbane Firehawks.

That way you have the LGAs of Logan, Ipswich, Redland, Moreton Bay and Sunshine Coast represented, creating tribalism and a genuine pathway for kids all over the SEQ area. Provide better coverage of the competition so it means something to kids.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,221
I hear they have a strong presence in Cairns. We really need to strengthen the Queensland Cup, with more focus on the regional centres, to thwart AwFuL's expansion. Northern Pride should go back to being the Cairns Cyclones or adopting the North Queensland Marlins name, which is steeped in history. The SEQ needs a better spread of teams so that Greater Brisbane is better represented.

Wynnum Manly Seagulls --> Redland City Seagulls
Souths Logan Magpies --> Logan Magpies
Redcliffe Dolphins --> Moreton Bay Dolphins
Norths Devils --> Brisbane Devils

Devils can represent the northern half of Brisbane and adopt elements from Wests Panthers, such as the red and black colour set.

Brisbane Tigers can absorb the Souths Magpies territory. They should just change their name to Brisbane Firehawks.

That way you have the LGAs of Logan, Ipswich, Redland, Moreton Bay and Sunshine Coast represented, creating tribalism and a genuine pathway for kids all over the SEQ area. Provide better coverage of the competition so it means something to kids.
This also plugs into something I've been proposing for a while - inter-league round(s) in the 2nd tier.

Have an equal number of clubs in NSW & Qld Cup, and play them off against each other during a stand-alone Origin weekend (or 2 or 3 rounds if more than one Origin game is moved to Sunday.)

That would raise the profile of Qld Cup (and NSW Cup) teams, and create opportunities for great rivalries to develop - how about Newtown Jets v Ipswich Jets?

It also plugs into the state-vs-state vibe.. you could even put silverware on the line for which comp wins more interleague games.
 
Messages
14,822
Interesting articLe that shows why nrl are desperate to protect queensland. Being so far behind afl they can’t afford to lose any more ground.


Rugby league's part-administrator, part-commander-in-chief was talking on Nine Radio in May about the AFL's steps into Queensland.
Most dramatically, Brisbane hosted much of the AFL season last year as COVID-19 gripped Victoria.
"Look the AFL have done a wonderful job," he added.
"They've held our hands. Made us feel warm and fuzzy while they've invaded us."
The comments came as a new book titled Code Wars lands on shelves.
Its author, Dr Hunter Fujak, has spent the past seven years studying the dynamics of football in this country.
He's in no doubt which code is currently on top.

"The AFL is winning the code wars," he says, "followed by rugby league, soccer and rugby union bringing in the tail."
Dr Fujak cites the fact that one in five Australians are interested in AFL and no other football code. He points out AFL brings in more revenue than anyone else each year. And he highlights clubs in the AFL are largely profitable.
But don't tell those in charge of the other codes, who continue to battle like the score is nil-all.
While other codes have presence in the AFL states of Victoria, Western Australia and South Australia, Queensland — as the fastest growing state — has become the front line in the footy code wars.
"We've seen the AFL make really strong gains in Queensland," Dr Fujak says, "television audiences in Brisbane are very strong and rugby league audiences are declining."
The NRL will announce plans for a new team in Brisbane in the coming months and not only is the senior men's competition expanding.
The NRLW is set to grow to seven teams this season, with the Titans becoming the second team in South-East Queensland.
In response to V'Landys' talk about invasion, chief executive of the Brisbane Lions AFLW team, Breaanna Brock, is steadfast.
"What can I say? AFL's the Indigenous game of Australia right.
"We invented the game here. It's native to Australia. It should be everywhere in Australia."
The Lions are reigning AFLW champions, with a team made of mostly Queenslanders.
"My previous role to this was working for AFL up in Queensland and my role was to grow the game for women and girls," Brock says.
"When I started in 2013 we were starting at around 40 to 50,000 participants, well that's up to 120,000 now."
Eugenie Buckley from sports consultancy Suiko knows Queensland well. She has worked in cricket and rugby and been chair of Netball Queensland.
She was also CEO of A-League club Brisbane Roar during the club's most successful period.
"It is a code war because there's only so much talent in Australia," she says.
Dr Fujak's research shows why junior participation is so important to those in charge of the codes.

Put simply, playing sport as a junior — for example the AFL's Auskick program for primary school age children — leads to more consumption as an adult.

"If we use Auskick for the AFL as an example, a child who has not had exposure to Auskick as a child, on average watches 3.7 games of AFL in a season. A child who has played Auskick goes onto watch 8.5 games."

Brock is committed to keeping girls playing Australian rules, and has sought to remove a gap that has traditionally existed in Brisbane girls' competitions.

"It meant adding in younger and younger age groups."

"So that then became an under-15s competition, and under-13s, an under-11s, and this year we've just introduced an under-9s competition."

Programs like Auskick and clubs in developing markets of the Gold Coast and Western Sydney, receive subsidies from AFL headquarters.

Dr Fujak argues they could even be going further.

"The AFL could quite literally offer families a $200 cash incentive to have them play Auskick.

"Then that child would grow up to be an adult consumer who's a much bigger fan of AFL, and the lifetime value of that fandom would probably pay off their $200 investment."

The AFL is certainly best placed to spend. Right now no sporting body brings in as much money each year.


Dr Fujak believes the code wars matter because it's a question of survival.

"What we might see is increasingly one code dominate at the expense of the rest," he says.

"We might come to a point where in fact one code reaches a financial strength to be able to really snuff out another code."


AwFuL have risked irking their Melbourne-based clubs to grow the game in its two other heartland states and two non-heartland states. It's now 26 years that Perth has fielded two teams and 23 or 24 years that they've had two in Adelaide. For a decade now they've had two in Sydney and two in SEQ.

The ARLC/NRL has spent the last 23 years mollycoddling the Broncos, Storm and, for the last decade, the Sydney clubs to the detriment of the lower tiers and other areas. Titans were introduced because AwFuL forced the NRL's hand.

Other codes, especially AwFuL, have developed supporters in Queensland who would have been diehard RL fans if the area was appropriately represented from 1988 and onwards. With the NRL's focus always on Sydney, little things like AwFuL players going into schools to give them a McHappy Meal and run Auskick clinics, along with the Fumbleflag being played in Brisbane while SOO has been shipped to Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth for years, gave some kids in Queensland the belief that there's more opportunities for them in fumbleball because it presents itself as a fairer competition that respects Queenslanders who support the game, whereas the ARLC takes us for granted. Those potential fans have been lost, but we can prevent the next generation of fans from following fumbleball by adding a second Brisbane team in 2023 and a third by 2033. Perth and NZ 2 also need to be introduced and should have been here 20 years ago.
 
Messages
14,822
This also plugs into something I've been proposing for a while - inter-league round(s) in the 2nd tier.

Have an equal number of clubs in NSW & Qld Cup, and play them off against each other during a stand-alone Origin weekend (or 2 or 3 rounds if more than one Origin game is moved to Sunday.)

That would raise the profile of Qld Cup (and NSW Cup) teams, and create opportunities for great rivalries to develop - how about Newtown Jets v Ipswich Jets?

It also plugs into the state-vs-state vibe.. you could even put silverware on the line for which comp wins more interleague games.
I like this idea. They could have a mid-season knock out competition involving all of the teams.

With so many streaming companies fighting for limited content, it provides our game with a potential revenue source from another player in the market, which will give it more exposure.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,808
I hear they have a strong presence in Cairns. We really need to strengthen the Queensland Cup, with more focus on the regional centres, to thwart AwFuL's expansion. Northern Pride should go back to being the Cairns Cyclones or adopting the North Queensland Marlins name, which is steeped in history. The SEQ needs a better spread of teams so that Greater Brisbane is better represented.

Wynnum Manly Seagulls --> Redland City Seagulls
Souths Logan Magpies --> Logan Magpies
Redcliffe Dolphins --> Moreton Bay Dolphins
Norths Devils --> Brisbane Devils

Devils can represent the northern half of Brisbane and adopt elements from Wests Panthers, such as the red and black colour set.

Brisbane Tigers can absorb the Souths Magpies territory. They should just change their name to Brisbane Firehawks.

That way you have the LGAs of Logan, Ipswich, Redland, Moreton Bay and Sunshine Coast represented, creating tribalism and a genuine pathway for kids all over the SEQ area. Provide better coverage of the competition so it means something to kids.

I think the QLD cup is probably as strong as a state based 2nd tier comp is going to get. You would probably end up cannibalising the QLD NRL teams if you make it too strong.

Ideally you would have a 2nd tier comp with teams from NSW, QLD, VIC, WA, SA, NZ, PNG and Fiji... no NRL branded reserve grade teams either so from NSW you have teams like the Bears and Jets. It would cost too much money to run though.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,548
Yes its seems extremely relevant as PR decided to post about AusKick in a rugby league forum, i feel Jim's apprehensions are valid, as there seems to be a lot of pro AFL flag waving and anti ARLC on most of PRs posts
I didn’t post about Auskick.i posted about a new book with a lot of research behind it that shows why the nrl is so keen to get in another brisbane club as soon as possible, you know this is an expansion thread dont you?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,548
I think the QLD cup is probably as strong as a state based 2nd tier comp is going to get. You would probably end up cannibalising the QLD NRL teams if you make it too strong.

Ideally you would have a 2nd tier comp with teams from NSW, QLD, VIC, WA, SA, NZ, PNG and Fiji... no NRL branded reserve grade teams either so from NSW you have teams like the Bears and Jets. It would cost too much money to run though.
there in lies the problem, the nrl does not have a spare $30mill plus a year to create a genuine second tier so is reliant on nrl clubs funding most of it as a pseudo nrl reserve grade. Ideally we’d have an nrl reserve grade and a se mile prof national second tier then state leagues at third tier. But there isn’t enough money in the game, and arguably number of decent players, unfortunately.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,042
I didn’t post about Auskick.i posted about a new book with a lot of research behind it that shows why the nrl is so keen to get in another brisbane club as soon as possible, you know this is an expansion thread dont you?
The quotes of this new book that you posted only drive an auskick narritive,
Where is the rugby league quotes in this book? I know all about expansion, i also know that RL fkd up 30 years ago, but thats not to stop RL from learning from its mistakes, norths, perth, adelaide, gold coast, south qld, all teams we should have kept, but money talks and big business drives agendas, and expansion falls away to the side... we wil never be bigger than the AFL in most metrics unless the city of Melbourne disappears, but we have a better product that will shine brighter whenever we get back on track to expansion in areas we lack, Perth and Adelaide are a decade away, unless we port either an existing syd club now or twiggys western farce, in both areas.
Until then focus on brisbane/SEQ and NZ is crucial for future of the playing stocks/talent of RL
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,436
I’d imagine vic is like WA where most of the polynesian kids play union and league. Trick is to get the best of them to commit to the RL elite pathways at 16 plus. If like WA problem is union at grassroots has more clubs, better community reach, better schools programmes and more grassroots funding. Makes it hard for the league clubs who have poorer facilities and less funding to compete. Not sure if melbourne has League SHS scholarship program lime Perth? That has certainly helped get some kids to commit to league.
Not sure if is simply that there are hardley any Polynesians in Melbourne and hardly any Africans in Sydney/Brisbane or if their respective body types are just only suited to one code. My kids have played various sports across Melbourne and we have never encountered anyone of Polynesian decent. We have a lot of Africans here and that is reflected in the AFL where most teams have an African player. Are there many Africans in other states?
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,436
Let's be real, there's no way the VRL/NRLVIC will ever get white kids from Melbourne to play RL instead of fumbleball. The only kids in Melbourne that will play the game are Polynesians and Melanesians who live there. A white kid from Queensland or NSW who is unfortunate enough to live down there might play our game, but the pressure from the other kids at school to play fumbleball would be enormous.
Correct. There is no opportunity for kids here to try or play RL unless you live in the (very) outer suburbs. If you moved here from Qld/NSW and live within 15km of AAMI, you are not playing RL.
NRL and STorm must have conceded that there will never be a true homegrown NRL player, it is the only explanation as to why they have given up on growing the grass roots here. Rugby league in Melbourne is all sizzle, no sausage.
 
Messages
14,822
Not sure if is simply that there are hardley any Polynesians in Melbourne and hardly any Africans in Sydney/Brisbane or if their respective body types are just only suited to one code. My kids have played various sports across Melbourne and we have never encountered anyone of Polynesian decent. We have a lot of Africans here and that is reflected in the AFL where most teams have an African player. Are there many Africans in other states?
Quite a few Africans live in Brisbane. One of them played in the Queensland Cup a few years ago.
 
Messages
14,822
Correct. There is no opportunity for kids here to try or play RL unless you live in the (very) outer suburbs. If you moved here from Qld/NSW and live within 15km of AAMI, you are not playing RL.
NRL and STorm must have conceded that there will never be a true homegrown NRL player, it is the only explanation as to why they have given up on growing the grass roots here. Rugby league in Melbourne is all sizzle, no sausage.
The only hope for RL in Melbourne is to target its small RU community. The Storm have won the war against the Rebels, so let's target the RU participation base in Melbourne to galvanise the Storm. As a bonus it'll drive Fitzsimons mad.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,548
The only hope for RL in Melbourne is to target its small RU community. The Storm have won the war against the Rebels, so let's target the RU participation base in Melbourne to galvanise the Storm. As a bonus it'll drive Fitzsimons mad.
Unless the nrl is willing to up the current $1million it puts into grasssroots in victoria to closer to $25million a year then there is zero chance of getting jnr major traction like we’ve seen for afl in nrl heartland. It’s a simple equation of $’s in = participation rates.
 

Jim Rockford

Bench
Messages
3,082
C'mon NRL, Perth Red wants you to stump up the cash and do the work the Drizzle should be doing. After all, why should they do anything when they can sit back and have it handed to them. Forget the fact that a number of other clubs invest in the games future by funding juniors, the Drizzle are a special case with a grotesque sense of entitlement.
 
Messages
14,822
Unless the nrl is willing to up the current $1million it puts into grasssroots in victoria to closer to $25million a year then there is zero chance of getting jnr major traction like we’ve seen for afl in nrl heartland. It’s a simple equation of $’s in = participation rates.
What if the ARLC and Storm went about buying up RU clubs, one by one?
 

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