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"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

Perth Red

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69,548
Where are you getting AF growth numbers from out of interest? Especially playing ones? There is a massive difference between getting a small % of armchair fans to follow a game and buy a cheap streaming service to your league in another country and actually having your sport become THE main stream sport of the country! You seemed to be intimating in your OP that the NRL and AFL should stop worrying about each other and worry about sports like NFL and soccer, which on all the evidence we've got seems a nonsense. They are niche sports here and are highly unlikely to be anything but that over the next 20 years plus. The real battle is NRL v AFL and thats where the Australian sports landscape will be won or lost by one of them in the next 20-30 years.
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
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1,436
Yes, I absolutely agree with that. Make it the cool sport to play within those communities and it will inevitably grow from there. The Storm are already well known in Melbourne, even by AFL fans so as the generations go on, they will carve a good support and participation niche that could rival the lower AFL clubs.
In terms of crowds, yes. Participation growth is poor. RL has failed to convert and kids from AFL. We hardly have any Polynesians here. We have more immigration that Sydney, but it is all all Africans (who play AFL & soccer), Asians (tennis & soccer) and Indians (cricket & tennis). Unlike Sydney, where most immigrants live in the poorer, outer suburbs, the Indians and Chinese here are cashed up in live in the inner or middle suburbs, and the Africans are spread out all across the city.
 

Perth Red

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In terms of crowds, yes. Participation growth is poor. RL has failed to convert and kids from AFL. We hardly have any Polynesians here. We have more immigration that Sydney, but it is all all Africans (who play AFL & soccer), Asians (tennis & soccer) and Indians (cricket & tennis). Unlike Sydney, where most immigrants live in the poorer, outer suburbs, the Indians and Chinese here are cashed up in live in the inner or middle suburbs, and the Africans are spread out all across the city.

NZ is the 4th biggest immigration group in Victoria. All up in 2016 there was around 120k people living in Victoria from polynesian and PNG. There was less than half that from Africa, with half of them being white Sth Africans. Add in their kids and it shouldnt be hard to find 10k RL players before we even look at Northern England immigrants and the odd local Australian too big for AFL!

file:///C:/Users/jason/Downloads/Table1VictoriaCountryofbirth2016Censusandchange5July17.PDF
 
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14,822
Yes, I absolutely agree with that. Make it the cool sport to play within those communities and it will inevitably grow from there. The Storm are already well known in Melbourne, even by AFL fans so as the generations go on, they will carve a good support and participation niche that could rival the lower AFL clubs.
RU is a dying game and is losing its influence over the private schooling system. ARLC should stipulate in their Origin deals with the Victorian Gov that the game must be played in state schools at some level.
 

Perth Red

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69,548
RU is a dying game and is losing its influence over the private schooling system. ARLC should stipulate in their Origin deals with the Victorian Gov that the game must be played in state schools at some level.
Touch would be the way to go. Mixed gender sport, low contact risk, no expensive equipment needed, introduces kids to RL in a safe environment. NRL and Touch assoc should be pushing this game into every school in Australia. Then follow that up with FREE League Stars clinics in every school then get the kids signing up to their local club with the lure of the new free Storm membership offer.
Whilst Union is struggling at the top I see little sign that grassroots is any weaker, it has aparticualr social niche that isnt going away. Many see it as an easier game to play than League and less taxing on the body meaning you can play it for longer as you age and the social scene is very good in Union at grassroots. Sadly with Twiggy Forest now bank rolling it in WA it isnt going away.
 
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You didn't even really read what I posted did you lol.

You are going over old ground, but I'll address it anyway.

Two things have changed since NFL Europe (which, BTW, was more successful than many would care to admit, particularly in Germany); firstly the internet has made access to the sport significantly easier, and secondly the NFL have learnt from the arrogance of thinking that they could just plonk down hugely expensive leagues and that people would go mad for it. Basically, their tactics have shifted.

Now instead of trying to push expensive new leagues in what are effectively brand new markets, they are building slowly by trading on the brand awareness of the NFL and big NFL teams to try and get people engaged with the sport through them first, in the hope that a significant number will engage with the NFL directly by subscribing to NFL Gamepass or however else people access the sport depending on the market.

Outside their target markets they don't really care about any growth past that point of getting your money, but that growth will happen, and is happening. Take Australia, or the UK for that matter, as an example, more people are watching and playing American football now than any other time in Australian or UK history, and those numbers are on a steady increase.

I already gave you two examples where the NFL did it without even really trying; they've effectively neutered the CFL, and though Liga MX is doing better than the CFL, they're succumbing as well. There're plenty of other non-NFL related examples as well- soccer in Japan and South Korea, basketball's growth in South America, everything that's happening in Africa and China that's too complex to get into.

This is just the typical, arrogant, baseball is America's favourite pastime BS. It wasn't true of baseball, and it's not true of any other product either. No matter how cemented any product can be outcompeted by new competitors, especially if they become complacent, just like the NRL has been complacent for the last 40ish years and the AFL has slowly but steadily grown in the Northern states, which is another example frankly.
American football leagues are popping up in Europe. It's the fastest growing sport in Poland and draws about 15k fans to the final of its national league.
 
Messages
14,822
Touch would be the way to go. Mixed gender sport, low contact risk, no expensive equipment needed, introduces kids to RL in a safe environment. NRL and Touch assoc should be pushing this game into every school in Australia. Then follow that up with FREE League Stars clinics in every school then get the kids signing up to their local club with the lure of the new free Storm membership offer.
Whilst Union is struggling at the top I see little sign that grassroots is any weaker, it has aparticualr social niche that isnt going away. Many see it as an easier game to play than League and less taxing on the body meaning you can play it for longer as you age and the social scene is very good in Union at grassroots. Sadly with Twiggy Forest now bank rolling it in WA it isnt going away.
I cannot see RU surviving in Melbourne. That place is just too congested.
 

Perth Red

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American football leagues are popping up in Europe. It's the fastest growing sport in Poland and draws about 15k fans to the final of its national league.
Theres been leagues in europe since I played in the late 80's. They are just very small as not many people play it and its damn expensive. UK has by far the biggest player registrations and there are only about 75 clubs in the country. Its niche and will always remain so. Sure it might attract a decent amount of armchair fans to watch NFL but its never going to be a main participation sport in reality.
 

Perth Red

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69,548
I cannot see RU surviving in Melbourne. That place is just too congested.
Maybe the Rebels but at grassroots it wil survive as it did fopr the hundred years before Melbourne had a professional club. It serves a different market to AFL and League.

Not sure why the Australian Govt would be funding a professional Fiji RU team!!

'But there was good news over the weekend when the Australian Government announced it would be providing financial support for the Fiji Rugby Union in order to help the nation establish both a Super Rugby team and a women's team for Australia's Super W.'
 
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Hartwood

Juniors
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217
Queensland’s shock call to ‘relocate’ Sydney NRL club to Brisbane


Can't post article, but intro gives the gist.

Queensland Rugby League chairman Bruce Hatcher has thrown up Cronulla as a potential NRL team that could be relocated to Brisbane instead of establishing a brand new franchise in 2023.
 

flippikat

First Grade
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5,221
Queensland’s shock call to ‘relocate’ Sydney NRL club to Brisbane


Can't post article, but intro gives the gist.

Queensland Rugby League chairman Bruce Hatcher has thrown up Cronulla as a potential NRL team that could be relocated to Brisbane instead of establishing a brand new franchise in 2023.
Lol.. wasn't V'landys first act as Chairman to bail-out the Sharks, no questions asked, no conditions imposed?

That’s an especially fanciful call, Mr Hatcher...
 

Hartwood

Juniors
Messages
217
Lol.. wasn't V'landys first act as Chairman to bail-out the Sharks, no questions asked, no conditions imposed?

That’s an especially fanciful call, Mr Hatcher...
I agree, it will never happen. I also think the Sharks would be better off in Perth than Brisbane. Qld rugby league fans won't get behind a Sydney side, but for Perth fans it would be Sharks or nothing

This would also allow the NRL to introduce a Perth, Brisbane and NZ side to bring the comp to 18 teams
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Yes growth but it’s tiny. It’s hard to play, incredibly expensive to have the equipment and isn’t an easy sport to take up on mass. It will never be a major participation sport. Even in America the amount or people who play the sport is tiny and after high school age even more so. it will also be a niche sport which is mainly based on one league being a tv product.
FFS you are being really dumb right now.

It doesn't need to be a major participation sport locally to outcompete the local competition, all it needs to do is become a competitive alternative as a spectator sport (already happening), build a pathway for talent into the NFL, and then it can attract as much of the best talent as possible developed by other sports to try out for them first because the other sports can't compete with the NFL's median income.

It's no different to RL signing most of the best talent coming out of RU schools, and it's exactly what they did to Canadian Football completely by accident. American Football wasn't a big participation sport in Canada until very recently, but outside of some small regions (Saskatchewan and Alberta) the NFL has been the big football code since the late 80s and the CFL has been a zombie since the 90s.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Where are you getting AF growth numbers from out of interest? Especially playing ones?
Anybody who has been paying attention shouldn't need numbers.

I mean f**k just go to a high school and count the badges. For every NRL, AFL, Super Rugby, etc, one you see you'll see two NBA, EPL, NFL, etc, badges.
You seemed to be intimating in your OP that the NRL and AFL should stop worrying about each other and worry about sports like NFL and soccer, which on all the evidence we've got seems a nonsense. They are niche sports here and are highly unlikely to be anything but that over the next 20 years plus. The real battle is NRL v AFL and thats where the Australian sports landscape will be won or lost by one of them in the next 20-30 years.
This is the exact same shit short-sighted people said about the AFL north of the Murray 30 years ago, but 30 years of consistent growth has completely blown them out of the water.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but it is slowly being built, and again it's not just the NFL, it's all the major sports leagues on the planet.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Maybe the Rebels but at grassroots it wil survive as it did fopr the hundred years before Melbourne had a professional club. It serves a different market to AFL and League.

Not sure why the Australian Govt would be funding a professional Fiji RU team!!

'But there was good news over the weekend when the Australian Government announced it would be providing financial support for the Fiji Rugby Union in order to help the nation establish both a Super Rugby team and a women's team for Australia's Super W.'
Same reason they are/were funding the Hunters, Silktails, and other RL projects across the pacific as well- the government thinks the only political tool it's got to fight China's growing influence in the pacific is cultural advancement. So China builds a port or some other infrastructure in a nation that it'll eventually repossess, and Australia counteracts that by funding bread and circuses.

Eventually they'll figure out that all this money spent on sports and entertainment across the pacific not only isn't sustainable, but doesn't work, and they'll cut funding and the whole pyramid will come collapsing down.
 

Perth Red

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69,548
Queensland’s shock call to ‘relocate’ Sydney NRL club to Brisbane


Can't post article, but intro gives the gist.

Queensland Rugby League chairman Bruce Hatcher has thrown up Cronulla as a potential NRL team that could be relocated to Brisbane instead of establishing a brand new franchise in 2023.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
I agree, it will never happen. I also think the Sharks would be better off in Perth than Brisbane. Qld rugby league fans won't get behind a Sydney side, but for Perth fans it would be Sharks or nothing

This would also allow the NRL to introduce a Perth, Brisbane and NZ side to bring the comp to 18 teams
If you were smart about it you wouldn't relocate the Sharks to Brisbane, you'd relocate the license.

In other words you'd come up with a reason to revoke the Sharks license, give it to another entity in Brisbane to run an NRL team, and send them to the NSW cup.

That'd add a team in Brisbane that people in Brisbane might actually be interested in supporting, keep the league at 16 teams, free up the Sharks contracted players to become the core of the new team, while still leaving the Sharks intact to continue operating out of Cronulla in the NSW cup.

It'll never happen though, nor am I sure that Cronulla would actually be the logical choice for the Sydney team that gets the cut.
 

Perth Red

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69,548
Anybody who has been paying attention shouldn't need numbers.

I mean f**k just go to a high school and count the badges. For every NRL, AFL, Super Rugby, etc, one you see you'll see two NBA, EPL, NFL, etc, badges.
nonsense, and those that are I doubt they could name the quaterback never mind a tight end or safety. Nfl and nba on fox struggled to get 25k viewers, I doubt either Australian code is shaking in their boots!
 
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