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Italy 92 Russia 6

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
Minichiello is 100% committed to Italy from now on so fair play to him
100% committed? Give me a break! If he'd played well in origin this year and sheens stated his intention to select him for Aus, I'd love to see how "100% committed" he would have been....

Seriously, one nation for life would remove any problems.
Exactly right, and how many times has Mini represented Aus?
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
If it was one nation for life then the heritage players who fancy themselves for Australia won't jeopardise their chances by putting their hands up for other nations, Thus the playing field becomes a little more even. the problems begin when you look at the Italian team that played Russia yesterday. None of them would come anywhere near a Kangaroos shirt but it still tips the scales big style in the favour of Italy. The only way I can see past this without imposing a quota (something I'm not in favour of) would be purely a matter of time whereby the number of Australian born heritage players available will diminish purely and simply because immigration into Australia from European countries is not anywhere near as big as it was in the late 20th century.
 

RooFan

Juniors
Messages
3
Josh has won highest point scorer for 3 years now, and played country 2010 and 2011. He played in the friendly game last year against Wales.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,674
No the issue is better qualifying

Russia at the moment wil lstruggle to beat Germany, Czech and Norway. Yet they were given free passage to teh qualifiers while these Euro Shield nations were given no opportunity
 

RooFan

Juniors
Messages
3
Big result for Josh Mantellato.
The kid is only about 23 and has been the top pointscorer in the Newcastle comp 2 years running and has been in the NSW country side for the past 3 years i think.
The Knights could do worse than to give him a shot at the Centurions.


Josh has won highest point scorer 3 years in a row now. He played in country squads 2010 and this year. He played in the Italia v Wales friendly last year. I don't necessarily think the best players get selected into feeder clubs like the Centurions - not saying that Josh should be there but I think politics plays a big part and sometimes its not what you know but who you know....
 

NRLMad

Juniors
Messages
860
The idea of making a player sign for a team for life is very short sighted. What will occur is that all players in the major comps will opt for Australia, NZ or England and the other teams will never ever grow.

Pretty much you would not see Beale, Hoffman, etc opting for NZ. Look at what's occured with Teo. He wants to play for QLD - why you ask - they get thousands per game....
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
No the issue is better qualifying

Russia at the moment wil lstruggle to beat Germany, Czech and Norway. Yet they were given free passage to teh qualifiers while these Euro Shield nations were given no opportunity


Yep, maybe it's time for a qualifying process to proceed to the WC qualifiers proper.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Here is the Italian team

Anthony Minichiello(c) - Sydney Roosters

Christophe Calegari - Lezignan

Dom Nasso - Monto

Matt Parrata - Mt Isa

Josh Mantellato - Wyong

Ben Falcone - Wentworth

Ryan Ghietti - Northern Pride

Alex Ranieri - North Sydney

Ray Nasso - Villefranche

Ryan Tramonte - St Patricks Blacktown

Cameron Ciraldo - Newcastle

Joel Riethmuller - North Queensland

Rob Quitadamo - Grions PD


Subs:

Dean Vicelich - Narrabeen (formerly Canterbury)

Cederic Prizzon - Villefranche

Matthew Sands - Griffons PD

Rhys Lennarduzzi - Western Suburbs


I really cant understand why anyone disputes the one nation for life rules. If it was in place from the start of this year, there is not a single player in that Italian team, who would not commit to them. but, now, if any players become international standard in the future, they will have the choice to switch to australia, and will obviously do so. Yet people think one nation for life would weaken the smaller nations:crazy:

I agree with the consensus, a qualifying Italian side, could be great for the game, although Lebanon are not going to be easybeats. Minichello cant and wont win on their own.

It really is a shame, that Russia and Serbia didnt have their own qualifying groups.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Rugby League simply isn't in a position right now to be able to have one nation for life without killing off minnow nations.

At the moment, I think the benefits of someone like Uate, Hayne or Minichiello representing a minnow nation once then opting to represent Australia outweigh the positives of stricter nation swapping rules. It gives these nations a competitive edge, a superstar to rally behind, building interest at the grassroots level which will eventually lead to the international game having a bit more money and prestige. When we can afford to schedule 4-6 games every year for every member nation, and the money is there to pay the players well, then you'll see more players choosing Fiji and the like over Australia.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
If it was in place from the start of this year, there is not a single player in that Italian team, who would not commit to them.

Wtf? If you are an Australian born with Italian heritage with the talent to even remotely have a shot of playing for Australia, WHY would you represent Italy now if you were stuck for life? They get nowhere near enough games, money or recognition, it would be a career killing decision. Improve the quality of the game, THEN make the rules stricter.

It really is a shame, that Russia and Serbia didnt have their own qualifying groups.

Why, they would be slaughtered in the WC. They got destroyed by an Italian team of semi pros and park footballers with just 2 NRL players. Any good side would have hit 100.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
revised after the 2008 world cup its - which ever nation you play for from 2009 onwards you are tied into that nation till after the 2013 world cup..

This, I agree with. Nominate your national representation at the start of each WC cycle. Stick with them until the WC. I think it is the best balance between competitiveness, development and 'legitimacy' we can get right now.

this rule has since been broken though namely by the ARL to get Uate who played for fiji in the 2009 pacific cup
Here's the problem. This is a joke. And it stems from the RLIF being a pointless organisation with no power or authority over any part of the game at all.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
6,352
If it was one nation for life then the heritage players who fancy themselves for Australia won't jeopardise their chances by putting their hands up for other nations, Thus the playing field becomes a little more even. the problems begin when you look at the Italian team that played Russia yesterday. None of them would come anywhere near a Kangaroos shirt but it still tips the scales big style in the favour of Italy. The only way I can see past this without imposing a quota (something I'm not in favour of) would be purely a matter of time whereby the number of Australian born heritage players available will diminish purely and simply because immigration into Australia from European countries is not anywhere near as big as it was in the late 20th century.

I was thinking something similar and wondering if there will be pressure to include an AFL style 'father rule'.

eg If Australian born Joe Bloggs qualifies for Italy/NZ/whoever by the Grandfather rule, 20 years later his son Joe Jr comes up through the grades, he should only be available for Australia as he is the 3rd gen born in Aust..... but his father played for Italy/NZ/whoever... I reckon there will be presure to allow jr to also nominate for the 'heritage' country.

just a hyperthetical.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Beside Minichello & Ciraldo the rest are only semi-professional. All are Italian so I have no problem. Minichello has alway been proud of his heritage he may of only played for them if they had more internationals.

It's the main problem with the minnows not enough tests to get the dual qualified players interested. I would rather Mini etc to play in these games rather then just WC. It shows pride in the jersey rather then just a game
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
While disheartening to the locals to miss out they got to train with mini. Mini's appearance got publicity this is needed to get funds to build the comp. Imagine getting even 10% of the funds in serie A in a RL comp this happens from the heritage players turning out
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Rugby League simply isn't in a position right now to be able to have one nation for life without killing off minnow nations.

At the moment, I think the benefits of someone like Uate, Hayne or Minichiello representing a minnow nation once then opting to represent Australia outweigh the positives of stricter nation swapping rules. It gives these nations a competitive edge, a superstar to rally behind, building interest at the grassroots level which will eventually lead to the international game having a bit more money and prestige. When we can afford to schedule 4-6 games every year for every member nation, and the money is there to pay the players well, then you'll see more players choosing Fiji and the like over Australia.
It wouldn't kill off anyone. I'm pretty sure that all the Italian players who played yesterday would gladly commit to Italy, with the exception of Minichiello. I think Uate would probably have committed to Fiji. As you say, we would need these nations playing more meaningful matches for it to work. But this should be happening too. Having the likes of Hayne turn out when it comes to WC time does nothing for the game apart from make it an unfair playing field. If these nations can get players to commit to them, as the Italians have, then that's great. If they are too weak without having to rely on ringers and players who aren't committed, then tough shit.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Wtf? If you are an Australian born with Italian heritage with the talent to even remotely have a shot of playing for Australia, WHY would you represent Italy now if you were stuck for life? They get nowhere near enough games, money or recognition, it would be a career killing decision. Improve the quality of the game, THEN make the rules stricter.

So, which of these italian guys do you think would not play for Italy? Let us not forget that Minichello pretty much committed to Italy for life now, given his age, and he has the best chance of playing for Australia of anyone. He is also a very interesting case. I can remember early in his career he played for Italy (or at least he was meant to). that was very, very interesting, because at that time, the rule was technically one nation for life, and there was no guarantee of being able to switch back to Australia (not that it was on anybodys mind) because he wasnt in calculations. In fact, if RL stuck with one nation for life, Minichello would have never played for Australia.

Jimmy Dymock is another one. He played for Tonga well before he was ever even considered a possibility for Australia. In fact, he had committed to Tonga for life, and it was only a last minute call (from memory it was due to the ARL s lack of depth in the superleague war) from Australia that caused the change of heart and change of rules.

Adrian Lam was in the same situation. He went further though. When Australia tried to poach him, he actually stuck with PNG. In fact, i think he might have claims to being the greatest international footballer of all time. Certainly the most passionate.

Luke Ricketson is another. Virtually Zero chance of playing for Australia, although by the time he committed to Ireland it had become very obvious that he would be allowed to change back because it was a minor nation only. but still, I doubt seriously that it would have effected his decision.

Once players commit to the nation, any tenous links (for an example look at Oldham Born Iestyn Harris who from memory had never been to Wales when he first played for them or even Australian Brett Webb or nathan Fien who qualified for NZ based on redidency). Once one nation for life comes in, you will get players to commit to nations and as a result it will happen more often. Even if they happen to be semi pro players not NRL players, that is a good thing, because these guys will probably put a bigger effort into helping the local game and countries can plan their sides knowing what they have at their disposal, not just hoping that their best players dont hit a purple patch of form.


And by the way, it wouldnt really be a career killer would it? In fact, the way things are at the moment for a side such as the Broncos who are nearly always struggling in the rep season and often it seems to cost their whole season, the fact taht a player is not going to be called up for QLD or NSW is actually going to increase their market value for the club. Not to the extent of the ARL cash payments admittedly, but for fringe players, it coudl be the difference between staying or going elsewhere.




Why, they would be slaughtered in the WC. They got destroyed by an Italian team of semi pros and park footballers with just 2 NRL players. Any good side would have hit 100.[/QUOTE]
 

marv

Juniors
Messages
1,053
Comparing international RL to football is not an equal comparison. Footballers who play for Brazil etc but not in their domestic leagues at least were born in these countries or learnt the game there. Besides football is a truly international sport thst has strong leadership and structures.

Brazil is a fair shout but Africa was mentioned in the previous post and a large number of African players are picked up very young and developed entirely in European football.

Those African countries are then set to reap the benefits but they often lose out as some go on to play for European nations.
 
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