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It's NOT a mess

possm

Coach
Messages
15,909
Any chance Mary was involved in process? Delegated authority, resolved disputes, final say on contentious decisions? Or was he not even in the room? Obviously I don't know - but seems silly to assume he wasn't pretty heavily involved.
How about something simple like, he was totally in charge in 2016 and did not act on suggestions from others. In the off-season the football committee did it's research and arranged meetings to resolve on-field problems. Of course Mary was a part of the prcess and was at the meetings however, he was the problem and most probably counselled prior to listen and be positive.
 

BrissyRedV

Bench
Messages
4,383
I don't know why people always bring up stats like they are the be all and end all? This isn't supacoach, if stats are the benchmark then Paul Gallen and Corey Parker will be the next Immortals.
Because the cream of the crop normally rises to the top with the stats reflecting this especially in the case of players like Smith, Cronk and Thurston, with both of the latter, featuring heavily in those very same statistics.

With regard to whether Hunt will improve our team more so than the retention of Packer and Dugan (and anyone else off contract me may lose while Millward rattles off excuse after excuse) that is still completely speculative and unproven at this stage.
As the argument that their loss will dramatically decrease the sides performance, although as highlighted by our performances without Dugan this year, there is a chance it will not have the affect you are alluding to.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,801
That is a big hypothetical that you cannot be certain of. Hypothetically, if we matched Packers offer from the Tigers we could have lost out in several other positions. As for Dugan, In all honesty I think he moved to the Sharks for the most part in spite. Basil probably could have added an extra year to the deal which is risk unto itself, but it may not have changed a thing anyway. I think the club got its priorities right retaining Widdop and signing Hunt and putting a fair value on Dugan.



I think the side has demonstrated it can be as good, if not better with Hunt in the side over Dugan next year with the side I think showing they can play without him over the last few weeks. Hunt may not ever play SOO but he is a huge upgrade on McGrone and has shown over the last 3 years that he is a quality halfback with excellent contributions to his side.

I am still critical with the club on a number of issues and may still be on this particular issue if the cap space freed up by this is not used wisely. Anyways, I have reflected and dwelled on this and I still feel at ease with what has happened.
Hunt is a half Duges a FB so no correlation.
IMO Dugan would have been a far better FB and more dangerous with Hunt at half instead of all the shitters he put up with whilst at our club.
In respect of would the club be stronger with Dugan and Packer and not journeymen then that is a given.
The overarching question is how will they replace Dugan and Packer and will we be instantly stronger for that change?
If we are not instantly stronger then we therefore must have gone backwards.
If we lose any more of the current roster and that is a distinct possibility (Mann, Lafai, Milne) how do we replace them and again will we be weaker or stronger for any of that?
Last question is do you think with the current roster we had at the start of this season - Mc Crone + Hunt could we have won the comp in 2018/19?
If the answer is yes then how come we chose to go backwards and be further away from the prize?
 

BringTheNoise

Juniors
Messages
1,172
Because the cream of the crop normally rises to the top with the stats reflecting this especially in the case of players like Smith, Cronk and Thurston, with both of the latter, featuring heavily in those very same statistics.


As the argument that their loss will dramatically decrease the sides performance, although as highlighted by our performances without Dugan this year, there is a chance it will not have the affect you are alluding to.

But Ben Hunt is no-where near the player Smith, Thurston or Cronk is. Yet your stats have him up there. Pretty much proves my point - they are not the be all and end all.

With regards to your 2nd point, we've managed to win the same games without Ben Hunt so by your logic your point is equally as moot.
 

BrissyRedV

Bench
Messages
4,383
The overarching question is how will they replace Dugan and Packer and will we be instantly stronger for that change?
Difficult to answer considering we do not know yet who the replacements will be. The question could be asked that if we had met their demands, who would we have lost in their place?
If we are not instantly stronger then we therefore must have gone backwards.
As soon as we find out who the replacements are, we will have a clearer indication as whether we have gone backwards or not.
If we lose any more of the current roster and that is a distinct possibility (Mann, Lafai, Milne) how do we replace them and again will we be weaker or stronger for any of that?
Again, another issue that needs to be addressed once they have signed contracts, be it with us or someone else. Most likely we would have lost all three had Dugan and Packer been retained on similar figures to which they signed.
Last question is do you think with the current roster we had at the start of this season - Mc Crone + Hunt could we have won the comp in 2018/19?
It would have given us an excellent chance of that occurring. But one way or the other, we were always going to lose a few players with Hunt coming. In this case, Packer really did get offered ridiculous money that I wouldn't have matched. Dugan, well in the big scheme for whatever reason I do not care as much about.
If the answer is yes then how come we chose to go backwards and be further away from the prize?
Its yet to be seen if we are actually further from the prize without them. I think it has been demonstrated over the last few weeks that missing a quality half is much more of an issue than missing a limited fullback. We are yet to see who will be retained and if any replacements will be signed. Personally, it was disappointing to see Packer go and I suppose a little with Dugan, but I really am not too stressed at this point.
 

ALSGI

Bench
Messages
3,101
Lot's of good points made by all.

In order; Manly, Cowboys, Raiders, Bulldogs, Eels, Panthers, Titans, Souffs, Warriors, Tigers and Knights - all behind us on the table.
After this weekend we could be in 2nd and you could add Roosters, Sharks and Broncos to those behind us on the table.

For crying out loud it's not a f**king mess!

It might be a mess later on in the year or next year but that's pure speculation.

Right now, it's not a mess.
Right now next year isn't a mess.
Right now it's great to be a Dragons supporter.
 

BrissyRedV

Bench
Messages
4,383
But Ben Hunt is no-where near the player Smith, Thurston or Cronk is. Yet your stats have him up there. Pretty much proves my point - they are not the be all and end all.
That is your opinion but whatever. Stats are the one thing that doesn't lie and sure, he may not be in the same echelon as those guys, but he is still a good halfback that has helped his team win plenty of games, which is a stat you cannot argue with.
With regards to your 2nd point, we've managed to win the same games without Ben Hunt so by your logic your point is equally as moot.
A moot point? A poor hypothetical, but if we had Ben Hunt, we most likely win the Sharks game and the Roosters game and I'd suggest we win several other games much more comfortably. The loss of Dugan in the games he has missed has been much less felt than the loss of a good quality half in Widdop.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,909
Hunt is a half Duges a FB so no correlation.
IMO Dugan would have been a far better FB and more dangerous with Hunt at half instead of all the shitters he put up with whilst at our club.
In respect of would the club be stronger with Dugan and Packer and not journeymen then that is a given.
The overarching question is how will they replace Dugan and Packer and will we be instantly stronger for that change?
If we are not instantly stronger then we therefore must have gone backwards.
If we lose any more of the current roster and that is a distinct possibility (Mann, Lafai, Milne) how do we replace them and again will we be weaker or stronger for any of that?
Last question is do you think with the current roster we had at the start of this season - Mc Crone + Hunt could we have won the comp in 2018/19?
If the answer is yes then how come we chose to go backwards and be further away from the prize?
We are dancing around the issue. The problem is Millward and he will only be shown the door when it is realised he has not got what it takes. Yes he is learning on the job but my take is that he jumps to the easy tasks and struggles to handle the more difficult tasks.
Easy Tasks
Retaining juniors
Recruiting juniors
Recruiting journeymen
Upgrading established first graders
More Difficult Tasks

Recruiting first graders
Recruiting marquee players
Retaining marquee players
Upgrading marquee players

It is always great to promote juniors to reserve grade or even straight to first grade however, we can never retain them all and so we must be selective and retain the players we need/want.

My rule as a whole is that we must do our best to win the GF every year and so select first grade/marquee players from within or outside the Club with the intention of winning the GF this year. We have been through too many seasons of development for the following years and not enough for contesting a GF this year.

So the golden rule to achieve the above is to always replace like with like or better. No steps backwards and hopefully at least keep the momentum going or break through with a GF win.

 
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2010

Bench
Messages
3,490
2010 was the greatest time to be a Dragons supporter. I wonder if I will ever have that feeling again?
I am sure we will and the feeling will be just as sweet. This year we are showing the league we are a force in all facets of the game.
Next year is looming to be the start of dragons up where we belong.
The current superstars like JT and others are getting on in years, whereas we have some great juniors who will dominate for the future
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,801
2010 was the greatest time to be a Dragons supporter. I wonder if I will ever have that feeling again?
I was lucky enough to be around at the end of the great run and that was surrounded more more a tinge of sadness when it ended rather than the great legacy of what it all meant.
2010 was great and lifted the huge burden of expectation post the amalgamation.
However 77 & 79 were the most exciting for me.
77 as no one even thought about us and after missing the semis in 78 again we were not given any chance in 79 so both of those were extremely sweet victories and of course they had the added bonus of our youth being at the forefront of the teams.
Anyway any of them were great times to be a Dragons supporter but alas too many years in between touched with moment of insanity by players, the club and the supporters.
 

Dragon Revival

Juniors
Messages
1,603
As a Dragons supporter my expectation is that we come in the Top 6 each year. This probably means that we need to score at least 30 points being 13 wins out of 24 games being a success rate of 54% plus two byes. If we sign a coach up for 2-3 years he would only be retained if he
attained these results unless there was a horrific injury toll. The Pathways Manager would also be judged along these criteria.
 

slippery5

Juniors
Messages
1,703
2010 was the greatest time to be a Dragons supporter. I wonder if I will ever have that feeling again?
My daughter was 14yrs when I took her to the GF in 2010, I said to her "I was your age when I watched them win there last GF after camping overnight at the SCG, I hope you don't have to wait as long as me for their next premiership !!!
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,801
I was 53 and slept for the next 6 months in my Dragons jersey. Nearly in tears at the stadium, what a day. I had been at the previous 4 grand finals we lost.
Your win loss ratio isn't very good.
LLLLW = 20%
Maybe if we get to the GF this year just send your daughter as she has a much better ratio
W = 100%
Happy to put on a barbie and a few beers and you can come over because as as TV spectator you have a clean slate.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,801
I was 53 and slept for the next 6 months in my Dragons jersey. Nearly in tears at the stadium, what a day. I had been at the previous 4 grand finals we lost.
My daughter was 14yrs when I took her to the GF in 2010, I said to her "I was your age when I watched them win there last GF after camping overnight at the SCG, I hope you don't have to wait as long as me for their next premiership !!!

Apologies Slipper and Hewi I got your 2 posts a bit mixed up.
That's what happens if you don't have a drink at the prescribed time of day.
Getting so old have to make sure its really scotch in the glass and not some other nasty stuff.
Anyway Hewi we can throw in and buy Slippery's daughter a ticket and you can still come over for the BBQ.
Just as an aside my kidneys and liver still ache as a result of the 79 GF win that was a day to remember.
At the end of the night we were spilling more than we drank and I was in serious trouble of drowning in what I was wading in and nobody gave a shit and we just kept on lining the schooners up.
 

slippery5

Juniors
Messages
1,703
Your win loss ratio isn't very good.
LLLLW = 20%
Maybe if we get to the GF this year just send your daughter as she has a much better ratio
W = 100%
Happy to put on a barbie and a few beers and you can come over because as as TV spectator you have a clean slate.
My GF attendance is
75 L
77 W ( even made front page of the Sunday Tele the next day holding my Teddy Goodwin Doll ) !!!!!!!
79 W
99 L
2010 W = 60% I think
But will definitely be there with my daughter 2017
 

epDragon62

First Grade
Messages
5,212
Ah, the joy of HT in 77 followed by the dismay at FT+ET. Then, the joy of smacking Parra 22-0 on the Tuesday.
Yes, 79 was superb too.
99 was the first I attended - were it not for the vacuum in my gut I would have thrown up at FT
2010 - I still can't believe the joy shared between my young bloke, my brother and myself - sweet days indeed. The stadium was electric and I crave the feeling.
Bring back that feeling, oh, sweet Dragons...
 

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