Jack Debelin could be back in 17 as early as next week

[rasaint]

After all the back and forward from two of our prominent posters let’s say both are right in their own way.

Big red v has raised what has narked me the last two years. It is the club and us dragons supporters who have been punished. JDB still gets paid but the club in practice has had to operate on nearly $ 600k less salary cap a year. The club had nothing to do with JDB alleged crime. Now if JDB is found not guilty whenever this goes to court then by reports other clubs are ready to swoop in with a bidding war for his services.

Also there is no way that a top class SOO player is sitting around ( does not exist any how) would be available to come to us for such a short and uncertain future. Therefore, we had to buy ( out of our own cash not subsidised by the NRL) a few base level recruits. The legal system has dragged on two years and our club has received no support in terms of say having our cap increased in future years even by say $200 k for 2021 and 2022 as an example.

I am not against Roosters getting SBW or Rabbitohs a leg up for this young superstar if NRL ‘ truly is there for all clubs and their supporters’. You couldn’t be blamed for suspecting that clubs with high profile wealthy businessman or movie stars seem to get preferred concessions which help them maintain a great shot at the title and/or more supporters through the gate.

Maybe I just overthink things.In fairness, it may be that the NRL never suspected that JDB case would drag on for so long and our club and supporters would be punished under the cap for so long. When in turned into a drawn out situation NRL maybe thought we can’t backtrack now and anyway no body is blowing up, it’s a lower profile club?

 

[Gareth67]

After all the back and forward from two of our prominent posters let’s say both are right in their own way.

Big red v has raised what has narked me the last two years. It is the club and us dragons supporters who have been punished. JDB still gets paid but the club in practice has had to operate on nearly $ 600k less salary cap a year. The club had nothing to do with JDB alleged crime. Now if JDB is found not guilty whenever this goes to court then by reports other clubs are ready to swoop in with a bidding war for his services.

Also there is no way that a top class SOO player is sitting around ( does not exist any how) would be available to come to us for such a short and uncertain future. Therefore, we had to buy ( out of our own cash not subsidised by the NRL) a few base level recruits. The legal system has dragged on two years and our club has received no support in terms of say having our cap increased in future years even by say $200 k for 2021 and 2022 as an example.

I am not against Roosters getting SBW or Rabbitohs a leg up for this young superstar if NRL ‘ truly is there for all clubs and their supporters’. You couldn’t be blamed for suspecting that clubs with high profile wealthy businessman or movie stars seem to get preferred concessions which help them maintain a great shot at the title and/or more supporters through the gate.

Maybe I just overthink things.In fairness, it may be that the NRL never suspected that JDB case would drag on for so long and our club and supporters would be punished under the cap for so long. When in turned into a drawn out situation NRL maybe thought we can’t backtrack now and anyway no body is blowing up, it’s a lower profile club?

Excellent post buddy - right on the money .

 

[Dragon David]

Excellent post buddy - right on the money .

"anyway no body is blowing up, it’s a lower profile club" - This!

 

[_Johnsy]

"anyway no body is blowing up, it’s a lower profile club" - This!

Oh how we have fallen.

 

[Legion]

After all the back and forward from two of our prominent posters let’s say both are right in their own way.

Big red v has raised what has narked me the last two years. It is the club and us dragons supporters who have been punished. JDB still gets paid but the club in practice has had to operate on nearly $ 600k less salary cap a year. The club had nothing to do with JDB alleged crime. Now if JDB is found not guilty whenever this goes to court then by reports other clubs are ready to swoop in with a bidding war for his services.

Also there is no way that a top class SOO player is sitting around ( does not exist any how) would be available to come to us for such a short and uncertain future. Therefore, we had to buy ( out of our own cash not subsidised by the NRL) a few base level recruits. The legal system has dragged on two years and our club has received no support in terms of say having our cap increased in future years even by say $200 k for 2021 and 2022 as an example.

I am not against Roosters getting SBW or Rabbitohs a leg up for this young superstar if NRL ‘ truly is there for all clubs and their supporters’. You couldn’t be blamed for suspecting that clubs with high profile wealthy businessman or movie stars seem to get preferred concessions which help them maintain a great shot at the title and/or more supporters through the gate.

Maybe I just overthink things.In fairness, it may be that the NRL never suspected that JDB case would drag on for so long and our club and supporters would be punished under the cap for so long. When in turned into a drawn out situation NRL maybe thought we can’t backtrack now and anyway no body is blowing up, it’s a lower profile club?

No, you raise a reasonable point.
Considering that it's not just JDB that's affected here, one would think that the judicial system would have brought this to trial as soon as possible.

I'm no lawyer and am not aware of the facts of this case but, innocent until proven guilty and all that.
In serious cases where the evidence against is strong, then the defendant is usually denied bail. No?

The NRL has done this before with Stewart from Manly. He nor the club or supporters were offered any apology.

Two years out of the game is outrageous. If found not guilty heads need to roll.

If there is a positive from this; since his body is not taking a beating, hopefully he'll be able to play a couple of seasons longer than if he had not had the lengthy break.

 

[muzby]

No, you raise a reasonable point.
Considering that it's not just JDB that's affected here, one would think that the judicial system would have brought this to trial as soon as possible.

Why should this case take priority over other cases in the system?

There is already a backlog of cases, why should others be pushed back further for this one?

 

[Legion]

Why should this case take priority over other cases in the system?

There is already a backlog of cases, why should others be pushed back further for this one?

For the reason that I stated; because it's not just affecting JDB.
If the prosecution had a strong case then he would have been denied bail. Yes?
Since he has been given bail then that suggests that it's not a clear cut open and shut case.

Having said that, this is on the NRLs head rather than the judiciary system.
Players should not be stood down unless they've been found guilty of a serious crime. Until then they should be allowed to play.

 

[muzby]

For the reason that I stated; because it's not just affecting JDB.
If the prosecution had a strong case then he would have been denied bail. Yes?
Since he has been given bail then that suggests that it's not a clear cut open and shut case.

Having said that, this is on the NRLs head rather than the judiciary system.
Players should not be stood down unless they've been found guilty of a serious crime. Until then they should be allowed to play.

But other cases affect other people too, not just JDB.

Why should their cases be pushed down the list?

 

[_Johnsy]

If the prosecution had a strong case then he would have been denied bail. Yes?
.

Not necessarily, there are a number of other reasons that a person is granted or refused bail, are they a flight risk, chances of the offender reoffending on bail, prior criminal history, potential additional harm to victim, possibility of offender interfering with witnesses.

 

[Legion]

So you blokes think it's fair and reasonable for a player to be stood down before he's been found guilty of anything?

 

[possm]

Agree. But Roosters would have found a way to move the player on I reckon.

The NRL should have owned that De Belin contract on the day their decision came into effect. The Dragons would have then simply recruited a replacement and the NRL would have taken care of De Belins welfare and fitness routine.

 

[possm]

So you blokes think it's fair and reasonable for a player to be stood down before he's been found guilty of anything?

It is not fair because the Club who had nothing to do with the alleged crime is the one entity which is effected the most. The NRL won the right to introduce the policy but failed to assume responsibility for their decision.

The NRL could have taken this out of the public arina by owning De Belin's contract the instant they stood him down. An agreement that he could come back the Dragons if successful with the case.

Too ;many within the NRL want to see St George fall or struggle so that they can get their hands on our St George District juniors. The Dogs, Tigers, and Rabbits could snap up junior clubs and players if a void appeared as a result of the Dragons moving to the Gong.

 

[muzby]

So you blokes think it's fair and reasonable for a player to be stood down before he's been found guilty of anything?

He’s stood down with full pay whilst facing criminal charges.

What’s unreasonable about that?

 

[_Johnsy]

So you blokes think it's fair and reasonable for a player to be stood down before he's been found guilty of anything?

It happens in many, many professions. I don't see why a footballer (albeit not a profession) should be excluded from these type of standards. After all, these standards are clearly set out & form part of employment conditions between hundreds of thousands of employers & employees. If an employer chooses to take those steps, then that is their call. As the saying goes, "the standard you walk past is the standard you accept". Each to their own though & I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with the above sentiment..

 

[Dragons4me]

Uncle Nick and Money Bill Billions on his discounted NRL allowed contract says hullo by the way!

 

[Dragon David]

Uncle Nick and Money Bill Billions on his discounted NRL allowed contract says hullo by the way!

Yes we know who is being looked after and it aint us.

 

[This Year?]

Uncle Nick and Money Bill Billions on his discounted NRL allowed contract says hullo by the way!

I feel sorry for the Roosters. Maybe they could save some money and we lend them JDB for a few weeks.
It would only be fair.

 

[rasaint]

I understand the principle of the ‘company employee’ being stood down on full pay.

However this analogy isn’t completely applicable. I genuinely don’t know the employment nuances of the web of relationships between NRL and the dragons and JDB. My understanding is that the NRL stood JDB down when the Dragons were saying that they believe in the long held maxim ‘innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt’.

Therefore, who is JDB an employee of? Unlike a company employee, the ‘employer’ ( dragons) did not have a choice of whether or not JDB would be stood down. I would guess that the employer (Dragons) made their own enquires including interviewing JDB as natural justice and made a decision to allow the employee to continue working and the seperate criminal court matter to play out. An employer in the real world has this discretion.

The point I am making is that for the past two seasons we are down on the cap $600k per season due to a criminal matter yet to be tested in a court of law. The club and dragons fans are the ones being punished and had nothing to do with this criminal matter yet to be decided in court. The impracticable ‘concession’ go and buy another JDB with your own cash shows seeming dismissive attitude toward our club and it’s fans, don’t you reckon? Happy to be corrected on this opinion.

 

[muzby]

The point I am making is that for the past two seasons we are down on the cap $600k per season due to a criminal matter yet to be tested in a court of law. The club and dragons fans are the ones being punished and had nothing to do with this criminal matter yet to be decided in court. The impracticable ‘concession’ go and buy another JDB with your own cash shows seeming dismissive attitude toward our club and it’s fans, don’t you reckon? Happy to be corrected on this opinion.

But we’re not down on the salary cap. We have been given the green light to find a substitute. It’s the club sitting on their hands that leads us to replace a DeBelin with the lesser kafusi.

And we can whine all we like about it being unfair against the fans, but in the grand scheme of things it’s a football game that provides light entertainment.

What’s going on in the courtroom will ruin at least one life.

 

[The Damo]

Not necessarily, there are a number of other reasons that a person is granted or refused bail, are they a flight risk, chances of the offender reoffending on bail, prior criminal history, potential additional harm to victim, possibility of offender interfering with witnesses.

Ability to pay top Dollar for a Lawyer helps convince a judge of those things too